All Small Six New member! Some questions about 200ci

[bubba22349]

At the minimum I would use the later model stock cam it is a little better and most of those rebuild kit places will let you customize the kit so there is little or no extra cost using any of the stock type parts. And some will even sub in a performance type cam if you want to go a little further. A 2V Carb could be added later or now if you wanted just be sure to mod the head as is needed so you can get the best out of it if you are going to use one of the 2V to 1V Carb adapter's. If its going to be a "Dally Type Driver" that would give good street performance and decent Fuel economy. There is also other a some things that could make it even better, like using a Large Log Head for much better flow, Zero Decking the Block for a better Quench Distance for use with todays thicker composition Head Gasket's, but for a tight budget that's should be a very decent combo. Edited

 

[Bill56]

A lot will depend on your budget and what you intend to use the car for.
I think a warmed over 250 with an AOD behind it would make a nice daily driver with some added fun.
Spend some time reading here and see what others have done.
You are certainly not the first to be facing a rebuild on a 200.

 

[R_Calris]

So if you were in my predicament, what would you change going into it that wouldn’t be a big cost while it’s apart? I like the idea of a different cam, give it a good idle, maybe use a 2V instead of 1V. But I don’t think that’s too crazy.

I've already stated the route I would go with your predicament, but I will place it here:

1JZ-GTE conrods, which would mean some machining;
roller tipped rocker assembly;
double roller timing chain;
mild cam with hydro-lifters;
ARP studs in the conrods, and head.
3-way valve job;
ford 305 valve springs/keepers.

once its back together, and running, I would worry about anything else, if you want to do a 2V, then finding a large log head and doing it on one that doesn't have to keep the car moving, and you can take your time to make sure its done right, rather than rushing to get the engine running again with too much machining work all at once, would be my recommendation.

 

[chad]

"...someone knowledgeable on these were close to me..."
get out ur wallet if U do not have the knowledge.
Start a new thread. Use the 4 or 5 resources I mentioned. If U give ur problem away 2 some1 else U still hafta guide
them, tell them what U want, know what U need. Otherwise U pay them for their decisions & they make them - turning into
what U really don't want and costing lotsa money. Understand 1st, make decisions, advocate for what U want, pay less, know more.

the Handbook

The Ford Falcon SIX Cylinder PERFORMANCE HANDBOOK | Vintage Inlines

The Ford Falcon SIX Cylinder Performance Handbook has 107 pages of History, Facts, and Information to help you get more power out of your small Ford SIX. This engine was used in Falcons, Mustangs, Fairlaines, and Comets in the 60’s. It was the FoMoCo workhorse in Mavericks, Granadas, and...

www.vintageinlines.com

tech archive

Classic Inlines

this site
(new thread "My 200 Build". Have the end goal in mind - caynon carver?, mpg daily?, trailer hauler, show, race, etc)

Haynes/Chiltons (example:1960-1964 Ford i6 Mustang engine overhaul)
example: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/ford-...mEBoCqfMQAvD_BwE#idiq=4085080&edition=2943971

ford shop manual
(depending...3X the above but 10X the value - tq tables, tolerances, etc)

echo's vid (rip in glory brother)
I - VII (bubs has the links)

U need a few tools, the above, a small space w/a coupla card tables'n an engine stand. Do some reading, see the vid 1st then start ur thread here. U got over 50 posts here anyway, 5 pages. Ur ahead now... go fer more ona new thread after getting upto speed.

 

[Guardian1fox2]

Okay so I think I’m getting lucky here, but wanted to share. I found a motor that’s gonna be local to me this weekend. $800, rebuilt, includes a lot of parts, rebuilt dizzy, 2 carbs etc.

He gave me history of engine, still has aluminum tag saying it’s out of a ‘67 stang which is convenient. Completely rebuilt, head new adj rockers, new valves, lifters, valve seats, guides, checked for flatness and block, .20/.20 crank, NOS .20 bearings, new hydraulic cam, .40 over with new pistons, oil pump primed sitting at TDC, everything set and checked. Said I’d have to run at 2500 or so for 20min to break in cam. I’ll post pics from him. What y’all think? I’m trying to figure out logistics now to see if I can make it happen.

 

[drag-200stang]

It is hard to say, 800 is not a lot of money today but...The pistons were new at one time, but the bore and pistons have been run together for some time. The cam looks new, but you thought that you change that...You get the old dog log and not late model higher flowing head easer to mod to a 2 barrel. .Do not rush into anything, keep thinking what you want and what will give the best outcome..

 

[Bill56]

Well, that one certainly looks like it can get the job done.
Adjustable rockers are a nice touch.

 

[Guardian1fox2]

It is hard to say, 800 is not a lot of money today but...The pistons were new at one time, but the bore and pistons have been run together for some time. The cam looks new, but you thought that you change that...You get the old dog log and not late model higher flowing head easer to mod to a 2 barrel. .Do not rush into anything, keep thinking what you want and what will give the best outcome..

Yeah on VMF a member told me to pass, had a list of reasons on things he saw that were red flags so the search continues!

 

[TrickSix]

As the weather warms, garages are going to be cleaned out and projects started. Some more sixes will turn up, either an ideal built-up engine to take you into the future, or just a runner pulled for a V8 conversion to get you by for now. There's a '65 200 advertised locally for $30, but it needs to be rebuilt.

 

[bubba22349]

X3 that engine would likely run good for awhile. However its not really a true rebuilt its just one that's been overhauled. I.E. It's had a Re-Ring on the set of used .040 over Pistons and Ball Honed Bores, with a set of New Bearings etc. plus the new Camshaft, Lifters, and a Valve Job, the Crankshaft looks good though. What's the Bore to Piston Clearance? X2 the Adjustable Rocker Arm Set that is a Plus, I think the price is a bit high for what it is, you could do the same to your engine a Re-Ring it along with a replacement Crankshaft and Bearings, another #1 Rod, Gasket set, and at probably less money. Edited

 

[bubba22349]

Basic Short Block Re-Ring Kit for a 1967 200 Six comes with Rings, Rod Bearing's, and Gasket set pick your sizes for $128.79. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=327316&cc=1332302&pt=5320&jsn=1010&_nck=HllVxRCey1+2aVRDo41oQXhbegy63eH0qmPILqfYvTTjzUaga1nLNhRINJVY+2cgxwqef00DIQEINF9BvwjiARjwDH/1JbDF0xsD8E4gRJJEZHNtRbkJiecwey7VN8IbxGR12cb/nYK9D5Keu+zkP12bU0rFSaNPmf5tt32XANyQEcet+AgDOSbh8Lq5NtpQ8lBXJSyajGdfXuKzmmXjYleQvN9+OJ6yeu4SliW42AhlZcCuuR5NgJfERvmbhwZDrIV+d4yWFIa9gCbawnTrgcpcGwtFChCT1awjzVIzXozrfFa4JN6vBZcLqBKLqkZaDBeMNl3Cw26kuwm5KwGGgQkPDhXqYf2g&jsn=1010&_nck=HllVxRCey1+2aVRDo41oQXhbegy63eH0qmPILqfYvTTjzUaga1nLNhRINJVY+2cgxwqef00DIQEINF9BvwjiARjwDH/1JbDF0xsD8E4gRJJEZHNtRbkJiecwey7VN8IbxGR12cb/nYK9D5Keu+zkP12bU0rFSaNPmf5tt32XANyQEcet+AgDOSbh8Lq5NtpQ8lBXJSyajGdfXuKzmmXjYleQvN9+OJ6yeu4SliW42AhlZcCuuR5NgJfERvmbhwZDrIV+d4yWFIa9gCbawnTrgcpcGwtFChCT1awjzVIzXozrfFa4JN6vBZcLqBKLqkZaDBeMNl3Cw26kuwm5KwGGgQkPDhXqYf2g

 

[Guardian1fox2]

I recently sold a few parts and stuff I had laying around so I have some funds to go towards rebuilding this or getting another motor. I may be able to get a decent price for machine work at my local shop as I’m a supervisor at a chemical facility here, we use them for a lot of work. If I’m gonna do this ima go the route that @R_Calris said. I mean if I gotta get new Conrods anyways I might as well make it better? I guess the only other thing is finding a large log head? I wish I could’ve bought that rebuilt one from a member but it’s all the way in WA state, just 2000 miles out of my way lol.

 

[Guardian1fox2]

Where is the best spot to lift a 200ci with a hoist? Manual shows some kind of claw. But I figured like some hardened bolts in like motor mount hole and one in rear exhaust manifold?

 

[bubba22349]

Please don't use any of the top exhaust manifold bolts especially the front and rear ear's they can break off the head very easy there are lots of examples of damaged heads like this! I used a fairly long chain for many years if you go diagonal across from one side to the other will give you better balance, use the Generator / Alternator bracket bolts on Passenger side or the lower boss on the block near the oil pan rail and then use the Clutch Pivot Ball boss hole on the drivers side (or any other's that's in those general area's) keeping the chain attachment points as close to the front and rear of the engine block as is possible helps its balance too. Next make a loop with bolt through the chain links that balances the engine with it slightly up on the front. Good luck

 

[drag-200stang]

If your crank grinder thinks that the crank is useable, the 1jz rods may not be a bad idea... A little more costly but you get a better build .
From what your calipers showed, I do not think that it would clean up at standard undersized crank for the 200 rod.

 

[Guardian1fox2]

Please don't use any of the top exhaust manifold bolts especially the front and rear ear's they can break off the head very easy there are lots of examples of damaged heads like this! I used a fairly long chain for many years if you go diagonal across from one side to the other will give you better balance, use the Generator / Alternator bracket bolts on Passenger side or the lower boss on the block near the oil pan rail and then use the Clutch Pivot Ball boss hole on the drivers side (or any other's that's in those general area's) keeping the chain attachment points as close to the front and rear of the engine block as is possible helps its balance too. Next make a loop with bolt through the chain links that balances the engine with it slightly up on the front. Good luck

Thank you!! I’m gonna need this info! I got an engine stand coming but currently looking to see if someone I know has a hoist I can borrow I think my neighbor and a coworker have one.

Against my better judgement I think I’ve come up with a plan. Since I’ve been able to pay off a bunch of stuff recently and sell a bunch of junk and parts I had in my shop etc, I’m going to go ahead and purchase this local engine, and I’ll do a quick swap and I’ll be able to enjoy the car now with my kids for a while as it is. The original engine I’m pulling, will go on the stand, and I will start doing a proper complete rebuild on it and will take my time this summer and maybe by next summer it’ll be ready. I will do @R_Calris plan up top with it if possible. I talked to machinist friend at that huge shop, and he said he’ll bring the crank in when I get it out and take a look and could probably do the turning down etc for next to nothing. But I will take my time on it, and do it right; try to get a large log head, get it machined etc. My 6 performance book will be in this week, so I plan to do a lot of research. I want to make it a good street machine, with a mild cam etc, that’ll last years many years till my oldest can drive and perhaps use it as his first car who knows. I’ve had V8s but for some reason I really like the idea of learning and getting what I can out of the six. Later on as I get close to finishing the original engine, I’ll look to get a good trans to rebuild and match with it, and when the time comes swap them out. It’s a long term plan but I think this way I can kinda have my cake and eat it too. And when my original engine goes back in, I have a choice to rebuild that one or sell it. I think it’s a decent plan Idk lol

 

[bubba22349]

Cant really tell what year block that engine is from the pictures but for Re Sale later for most people it would need to be at least a 1966 up Duel Bell Housing Bolt Pattern Block to use with the big bell and a Manual Trans.

I am sure that that engine will work out just fine for you and it will probably save you a good amount of time in getting it safely on the road and time is money too. Maybe try and shave a bit off the price like $200.00 to $300.00 to bring it closer to what its worth. Granted I am kind of conservative on something like that, that I could fix up myself. Best of luck

 

[Guardian1fox2]

Cant really tell what year block that engine is from the pictures but for Re Sale later for most people it would need to be at least 1966 up Duel Bell Housing Bolt Pattern Block to use with the big bell and a Manual Trans. I am sure that that engine will work out just fine for you and it will probably save you a good amount of time in getting it safely on the road and time is money too. Maybe try and shave a bit off the price like $200.00 to $300.00 to bring it closer to what its worth. Granted I am kind of conservative on something like that that I could fix up myself. Best of luck

He did kinda explain the boring and other stuff I brought up…this is what he sent me:

“It was run for a short time and something went wrong in the bottom end from what I see. It was torn back down and the crank was ground and rods checked. I had the bores honed at our machine shop in Denver, they inspected the bores and pistons and said all looked great. I had them inspect the crank and head, they said all was good to go. The head bolts were put in with copper anti seize and the right front was sealed because it enters a water jacket.

Run at 2000 for 20 min, watch oil pres and coolant temp. Change oil at 500 miles. I like 10w40”

Also giving me a few boxes of parts, rebuilt original dizzy, 1100 carb and cleaner with various other parts. Guess we’ll see lol here is the tag that’s on the motor

 

[bubba22349]

Well by that tag its a 1967 engine so thats real good for the short block. Then with those extra parts you should have what you need to get your car running.

 

[Guardian1fox2]

Well by that tag its a 1967 engine so thats real good for the short block. Then with those extra parts you should have what you need to get your car running.

Yeah it matches my car so that’s good, not that it’ll be permanent I guess lol. But he said it’s been a long time since carb ran so I went ahead and ordered a rebuild kit from vintage inlines, along with an electric choke conversion kit from champion. When I get carb I’ll just go ahead and rebuild it. I asked if water pump was good said impeller looked good and bearings seemed fine. Don’t know whether to swap them or not. Since radiator shop said they’ll clean and test the stang radiator for free since they rebuilt my model T radiator I’ll go ahead and let them do that while i got it out. Be like breathing life back into the ol’ girl lol. I’ll create a new thread once I get old one out, and do a tear down on it so y’all can see maybe what caused the damage to #1 and process of build! I’m sure I’ll have questions about swapping engines it’s been a very long time since I’ve done that lol. I was thinking since I have this brand new oil pan, on the motor I’m getting from that guy I think I’ll put the new one on it, just so I can also inspect everything before installing in the car.