All Small Six New member! Some questions about 200ci

This relates to all small sixes
G

Guardian1fox2

Active member
Hi guys!

Heard about this forum from Vintage Mustangs and figured I’d post here. Long story short, I’m changing the oil pan on my 200 in a ‘67 mustang. I dropped sway bar, and I’ve been told I can do it without removing cross member but it will not come out. Not sure what else I can do? Previous owner smashed the rear of the pan and I believe it has created a significant issue I’m sure I’m about to find out when I get the pan off.

I’m also struggling with carb. He installed an Asian Mfg. Autolite 1100 with manual choke and it just runs like crap (before I told him not to start it anymore). He has some other distributor on it and I’m not sure about timing yet…I’ll cross that road if/when I get my new pan on and it doesn’t knock when it starts lol.

I’ll include some pics for y’all. It idles very high, when you put in gear it runs so rough it’s just incredible lol. Give it gas trying to unload off trailer it didn’t have the power to go over the hump on trailer. I don’t even know where to start besides oil pan then work up. I’m HOPING the mains aren’t fried or more. He jacked up car under rear of oil pan and he said the crank hit it. He tried to pull it out but didn’t get far. When I looked underneath it doesn’t look too bad but when you start it it’ll knock idk if it’s hitting or what…and it makes a tapping sound when reving. I got a new pan in yesterday from NPD with gaskets and hoping to install tomorrow if I can get it out. I’ll take pics of the mains etc when I can to post.

So I’m also looking for a good rebuilt or good running 200 to replace it just in case! I don’t have the experience to rebuild or really the funds but perhaps I can offload some other stuff to get another engine.

Anyways here’s the pics (yes he put a stick in carb linkage lol and don’t mind yellow circle I was showing heater hole):
C865F5C5-FF8E-430D-9F2C-1C36A2394ADA.jpeg97904CA0-3719-45D0-8DDA-861FB7F62A87.jpegD9F7A395-8C2D-4171-A885-D11D7067394A.jpeg3856BA38-CD89-48C1-9A9A-793BF31EC1A6.jpeg18CB6714-44E2-4C6F-BDF2-FB6011BE01AA.jpegDCEF7D92-7D72-4AEA-A727-35137ED79AA9.jpegC03574C2-017E-4F28-AFB0-A4128A39F7DD.jpegE6D81CDD-37F5-4A80-82BB-DCBDB96421AF.jpeg1C370BE2-97BA-4A5B-906F-3E6BD1425B3E.jpeg
 
After wining and dining the bolts, I finally got the crossmember out. they came off with no issues just with my breaker bar, with one side dropped down the pan came RIGHT OUT.

Off to the juicy details….

Here are pics. Nothing metal wise I could see in bottom of pan. The pieces you see I messed withand crunched between fingers just seems to be gunk…idk. Idk if I should but thought about spraying everything with carb cleaner lol but I think ima just wipe stuff off and dig out gunk with screwdriver. All rods seem secure EXCEPT for #1 closest to radiator. It’s loose and I’m sure bearing is shot. I tried to see if maybe just the nuts were loose on the rod by hand…nah. Idk if I wanna check torque on it or not or leave it be. I see no scoring on the cylinder walls everything seems good for the most part. What do y’all think?Ima start removing old gasket and cleaning stuff up get ready for new pan install. OH also, you can see where #6 or crank was hitting the pan in the back….idk maybe I’ll get lucky and get a few more miles out of it. Here is a quick video I made of the #1 rod:

Probably a stupid question, but is there I way I could perhaps install a new bearing just on #1 for now with it in the car? I figure I’ll put it back together and see how it runs of course timing and carb gonna be issue but if there’s no unusual noises I’ll get it running well while I save up for a rebuild or another motor.


C3933AE6-D067-499C-AABB-048E936D94A0.jpeg9B182FCC-D5C2-4AC0-A178-B2B232A95097.jpeg4687B771-52F2-48BE-B122-FC61E789E6F2.jpeg52FE31A6-7DDD-4CB1-8D50-BE39C73997F8.jpeg07592527-2260-47D0-B4C7-981A157858CF.jpeg2523D8C2-C8A2-4166-ABBC-23665810B1DF.jpeg
 
Oh also, moved #1 to TDC that I could see from underneath, all others still solid. No cylinder scoring I could see. Figure this would be a good time to look at distributor cap while I await opinions see if #1 would be firing. Correct me if im wrong…but it looks to be 180 out? Showing #6 firing when #1 at TDC. I could just take the rotor off and turn it around? Looks like firing order should be 1-5-3-6-2-4. Idk if I’m off or what but it seems to be all out of whack. When I get pan back on, I’ll double check wiring etc. if the distributor is 180, I’ll pull and restab so it’s correct, then I can erase those numbers on the cap and route wires correctly. Hope this all helps someone else one day lol
89A246C1-A13E-4955-8037-BF3BFBFA8920.jpegF83DB343-1327-4C1D-991A-AC68CE48F2C1.jpeg81360C4A-E614-435D-B7AB-4BA828DE7B71.jpeg
 
bmbm40 said:
Good job getting the pan off. You may want to get a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook for lots of very useful info on the 200.
Click to expand...
Just ordered one from classic inlines! I posted a reply about timing, but I just realized that I didn’t use the finger method to verify TDC could be exhaust stroke so I’ll check that tomorrow. I was waiting to put pan back on until I got some opinions on what I should do to play it safe.
 
Last edited:
I know its probably just me, but the vac advance seems clocked 'wrong' to me.

my six is newer, and has emissions control on it (1982) and the vac advance on my distributor is clocked to face rearward, and the vac line is running through brackets that double as valve cover bolt washers, with the junction for the transmission/carb at the rear of the valve cover.

yours is aimed (in the posted pics) forward and 'out' and then the vac hose goes over the distributor, halfway back the engine, then hits the first junction.

I mean, it works no matter where its aimed, but it just seems weird to me for me because of the way I am used to seeing my engine. :)
 
Hi, as Bubba said, pull a couple of rod and main bearing caps and check the bearings, and the crank for scoring. If you are not sure, post a picture of the bearings. I can't tell but I wonder if the oil pickup tube is bent up from the pan being bent. The pan damage is in front but you never know. That engine has many miles on it. I agree the distributor is not clocked correctly, the advance should not be near the radiator hose. The carb may work, but the old SCV port should not be plugged with a bolt. That is probably causing a vacuum leak. Good luck
 
Standards have changed over the years. Back in the day, instead of a toothpick in the carb linkage, good old American iron would have been used - a piece of coat hanger wire would have been snipped from the end of a "muffler hanger"! Anyway, that monstrous distributor's plug wire order needs to be checked. Even if I could clearly read the black marker numbers, I'm not sure I'd trust anything that was done by that PO. Is that indeed a #1 by the plug wire that goes to the #1 plug? Looks a lot like a #2 too there on the cap. Your firing order is cast right there in the top of your intake manifold, you don't need a diagram to check it.
 
TrickSix said:
Standards have changed over the years. Back in the day, instead of a toothpick in the carb linkage, good old American iron would have been used - a piece of coat hanger wire would have been snipped from the end of a "muffler hanger"! Anyway, that monstrous distributor's plug wire order needs to be checked. Even if I could clearly read the black marker numbers, I'm not sure I'd trust anything that was done by that PO. Is that indeed a #1 by the plug wire that goes to the #1 plug? Looks a lot like a #2 too there on the cap. Your firing order is cast right there in the top of your intake manifold, you don't need a diagram to check it.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys! I am pulling the #1 rod cap today and checking, if journal is good I’ll replace with new bearing. Others feel solid as a rock so I may not mess with them. Well #3 has very slight play, may check that one too. I actually ordered a new pick up tube just in case, I mean why not already there lol.

As far as the distributor, yeah the rotor is pointing to #6, but I have #1 in TDC (well I need to verify with finger) but if so that means I believe it’s 180 out. Yeah he put a toothpick in it 😂. Guy was something else. I got a brass fitting for that port with the bolt, I can cap with a rubber plug I got. I feel like I’m making progress. If I can make it through summer I’ll rebuild or swap this winter. I reached out to a member of the forum that had a 200 rebuilt to see how much he wanted for it. If price is right I’ll grab it and I’ll spend the summer driving what I got and getting the motor I bought how I want. Somewhat of a method to the madness 😂. Hell if I can find another C4 I’ll just do an entire swap hahaha
 
B RON CO said:
Hi, as Bubba said, pull a couple of rod and main bearing caps and check the bearings, and the crank for scoring. If you are not sure, post a picture of the bearings. I can't tell but I wonder if the oil pickup tube is bent up from the pan being bent. The pan damage is in front but you never know. That engine has many miles on it. I agree the distributor is not clocked correctly, the advance should not be near the radiator hose. The carb may work, but the old SCV port should not be plugged with a bolt. That is probably causing a vacuum leak. Good luck
Click to expand...
Should I spray everything down with carb cleaner try to get some gunk out? Or just leave it?
 
it will be easier to see scoring in digital photos if you don't clean them off, or take them out of the caps. if you aren't sure, take a pic before you clean them, then another after, just don't pull them all at once and drop the crank, that wouldn't be a good day.

please take a picture of the crank journal as well, as it could be evidence of a spun bearing that may not show up on the bearing surface itself. it could be a huge help to us to assist you in deciding what to do with your engine.

normally I wouldn't recomend this method, but seeing the already posted photos, and reading your responses, I am really leery about what this guy did to this engine. I am almost (not quite) tempted to ask you to check the cam bearings as well. there is a black spot on one of the cam lobes in the second photo after you pulled the oil-pan. not sure if its just oil, or if there was damage to it at some point. the other lobe I can see in that image looks good, but not good enough to be a new cam, so I doubt you have much to worry about there, at least from what I can see in the image.
 
Last edited:
R_Calris said:
it will be easier to see scoring in digital photos if you don't clean them off, or take them out of the caps. if you aren't sure, take a pic before you clean them, then another after, just don't pull them all at once and drop the crank, that wouldn't be a good day.

please take a picture of the crank journal as well, as it could be evidence of a spun bearing that may not show up on the bearing surface itself. it could be a huge help to us to assist you in deciding what to do with your engine.

normally I wouldn't recomend this method, but seeing the already posted photos, and reading your responses, I am really leery about what this guy did to this engine. I am almost (not quite) tempted to ask you to check the cam bearings as well. there is a black spot on one of the cam lobes in the second photo after you pulled the oil-pan. not sure if its just oil, or if there was damage to it at some point. the other lobe I can see in that image looks good, but not good enough to be a new cam, so I doubt you have much to worry about there, at least from what I can see in the image.
Click to expand...
I’m actually about to go out and remove that cap now that wife is home. I’m glad I saw this I’ll definitely take these pics
 
You could get some Plastigage to check what the bearing clearance is that is if the Crankshaft Rod Journal still looks good. And while you have the Oil Pan off also check out the Timing Chain to see if its loose. Best of luck
 
I don’t even know what plastigauge is 😂 off to Google I go! I’ve been waiting to go out there and pull that dang cap but family comes first lol maybe here in a bit!
 
(Late to the party)
Y take a oil pan down? Musta missed something in the 20 posts, I skimmed.
SCV carb work w/a DUI or HEI (that dizzy)?
Pan dent does not look like any damage to internals.
Get running well and listen to bottom (top) end?
Pour oil pan ona paper towel (or other) look @ what's left. Also oil pump screen
(if necessary, same on shavings w/magnet to ID if steel or alu)? Go from there?
 
chad said:
(Late to the party)
Y take a oil pan down? Musta missed something in the 20 posts, I skimmed.
SCV carb work w/a DUI or HEI (that dizzy)?
Pan dent does not look like any damage to internals.
Get running well and listen to bottom (top) end?
Pour oil pan ona paper towel (or other) look @ what's left. Also oil pump screen
(if necessary, same on shavings w/magnet to ID if steel or alu)? Go from there?
Click to expand...
When starting and reving you could hear what sounded like the crank hitting the pan, so I dropped it to change to a new pan and also inspect! Found #1 rod bearing loose. Yeah that carb is garbage but at least the PO has the vacuum coming from the T going to trans bypassing SCV. I’m in need of another carb, as I think it’s missing some parts on linkages etc. We’re doing some family stuff today but this afternoon I plan on taking pics etc of the rod and bearings with measurements. I’m updating this and the VMF forum as well. I thought about buying a reman 1100 from Oriellys and dropping that on there, it looks like they have one without the SCV…or I could bypass if it does. I could run a choke stove off the header for the choke. May could at least get it running somewhat decent (after checking timing of course…well and rod bearing replaced lol)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top