All Small Six Are Twin Turbos Too Much?

This relates to all small sixes

Crustang to Mustang

Well-known member
I really want to get some dual outlet headers for my 250ci but I wouldn't be able to run a single turbo with 2 pipes (tell me if I'm wrong). So I got to thinking. If I got the dual outlet manifold from Aussiespeed and installed dual 2bbl carbs, could I twin turbo a 250ci or would I blow the engine?
 
Running two turbos is not an issue for "blowing up" the 250, high manifold pressure is a problem in that regard, but there is no reason that just having two small turbos will result in high manifold pressures. Usually two small turbos are used to improve response to throttle imputs, this is due to the lower inertia of the smaller turbo. IMO I would not use two turbos when one is going to arrive at your desired performance, it just make installing them difficult. The other way to use two TC is to have a high pressure and low pressure setup this is when one turbo does not have the pressure ratio that you desire, this is difficult to get working properly. An example of this is the multiple turbos often used on tractor puller diesels. You can hear the surging when they are trying to get 3 turbos to full boost before taking off. Not practical for a street car. IMO for a street car a blower is better, they give better response and wider torque curve. As to the 250, as we would say down here, built like a brick shithouse, ender 15psi you will be Ok even with stock stuff. However that awful log head is a problem, anything you can do for that is a big help. Try finding some of the excelent text on this setup, A Graham Bell has written on this.
 
I agree with what aussie said, except the log talk and 15lbs is a little much for stock pistons, yes fuel distribution is a problem, that is why there were no powerful boosted oem cars before mpefi.
Please get, A. Graham Bell's book ''forced induction performance tuning.''
 
I agree with what aussie said, except the log talk and 15lbs is a little much for stock pistons, yes fuel distribution is a problem, that is why there were no powerful boosted oem cars before mpefi.
Please get, A. Graham Bell's book ''forced induction performance tuning.''
"that awful log head" still stands, I know the limitations you guys have with the heads, we're lucky with crossflows. As to stock stuff for under 15psi, that is my experience, I run more than that with all stock pistons etc, and old ones at that, I've done 5000km with mine, and although I dont race it, so far its held up. You can't give it full noise for long periods because of traffic conditions, this is probably the saving grace, unless our local stuff is better than yours.
 
Has any body on here done a twin turbo setup?
There has been many twin turbo small six started and none finished that I know of, there has been many singles finished.
A finished single will be way faster than a never finished twin.
There is thought that there is not much difference in spool between the two. You cannot get something from nothing. Twins you divide the flow, it takes power to drive the compressor and you need two smaller wheels, less diameter to drive the compressor. The single will be bigger and a little heaver but there is only one. The larger diameter will drive the compressor easier because the exhaust flow has more leverage to work easier to compress more air.
 
There has been many twin turbo small six started and none finished that I know of, there has been many singles finished.
A finished single will be way faster than a never finished twin.
There is thought that there is not much difference in spool between the two. You cannot get something from nothing. Twins you divide the flow, it takes power to drive the compressor and you need two smaller wheels, less diameter to drive the compressor. The single will be bigger and a little heaver but there is only one. The larger diameter will drive the compressor easier because the exhaust flow has more leverage to work easier to compress more air.
Well, being a fan of positive displacement blowers I would not advocate for one to wo turbos in any event. Trbos IMO are great for Diesels when there is heat available to drive the turbine or when they are fully integrated into the engine like the ecoboost engines. However for everyday driving and amatuers like us a blower, either Rootes Lysholm or others will give much better overall performance on the road. There are disadvantes to live with too. Ive had the whole gammit of go fast stuff, big carbs cams etc, turbos etc, now I have a blower, thats is much preffered power delivery and instant torque available just by putting the foot down. As to difficulty of install, id say its 50-50 either way. And just one more thing, LPG Ive been using for years, compared to petrol propane is easier to deal with. Just my two bobs worth. If your interested read my two write ups on this matter, or ask away on my current rig.
 
Well, being a fan of positive displacement blowers I would not advocate for one to wo turbos in any event. Trbos IMO are great for Diesels when there is heat available to drive the turbine or when they are fully integrated into the engine like the ecoboost engines. However for everyday driving and amatuers like us a blower, either Rootes Lysholm or others will give much better overall performance on the road. There are disadvantes to live with too. Ive had the whole gammit of go fast stuff, big carbs cams etc, turbos etc, now I have a blower, thats is much preffered power delivery and instant torque available just by putting the foot down. As to difficulty of install, id say its 50-50 either way. And just one more thing, LPG Ive been using for years, compared to petrol propane is easier to deal with. Just my two bobs worth. If your interested read my two write ups on this matter, or ask away on my current rig.
As far as blowers go how much do you think I'd pay for a scrapped one?
 
As far as blowers go how much do you think I'd pay for a scrapped one?
I cant really give an answer to that for you in USA, and I would be a bit warry of buying a scrapped one. a rootes or Lysholm type of blower can be easily wrecked by eating something. The smaller rootes types like the eatons or weiand would be where Id look. Lysholm types are technicall superior but a bit more expensive. I got an Australian made Sprintex here for $500 with all the drives etc, I was lucky and got a good one. Others on the forum might be more help to you.
 
Look for an Eaton M90
90ci per revolution, maximum rpm shown as 14000rpm. So theory for a 250 application to give 12psi is 27/14.7x125ci=230ci per rev. Supercharger would need to rev to 230/90=2.55 times crankshaft speed, which in the case of a log 250 would be no more than 5000, so that gives 12750rpm blower speed, all is good. This take NO account of any efficiencys. Rough calcs would show a 27/14.7 increase in stock torque, so around 380 lbsft. IMO this would be OK with mostly stock parts, would need an 8 rib poly belt drive it. It should work on the better available petrol. LPG would allow for higher compression.
 
So all I need is a blower?
Basically.
You will need to mount the supercharger and get the drive belt alignment right.
Then fabricate an intake manifold for a 4barrel carburetor that feeds into the inlet of the supercharger.

You will also need to figure out what you want to do for an intake manifold between the engine and the supercharger.

The carburetor will need a modification so that the power valve is referenced to the intake manifold vacuum on the engine rather than the manifold it sits on.

You will also need an ignition system that retards the timing as the boost increases.
You can start with 1 degree of timing retard for each 1 lb of boost.

It would be a good option to use a camshaft that would work better with that supercharger.
 
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Basically.
You will need to mount the supercharger and get the drive belt alignment right.
Then fabricate an intake manifold for a 4barrel carburetor that feeds into the inlet of the supercharger.

You will also need to figure out what you want to do for an intake manifold between the engine and the supercharger.

The carburetor will need a modification so that the power valve is referenced to the intake manifold vacuum on the engine rather than the manifold it sits on.

You will also need an ignition system that retards the timing as the boost increases.
You can start with 1 degree of timing retard for each 1 lb of boost.

It would be a good option to use a camshaft that would work better with that supercharger.
But why go with blow through or petrol at all? LPG is a terrific fuel for boost, higher octane, cheaper (here anyway) can work draw through. Ignition is easy. Ive put up piccies of what Ive done before, but here it is again. I know you guys dont get the crossflow six, and the GRA stuff is a bit hard to get for you, but IMPCO stuff should been OK. This is a sprintex blower on 3.3litres, it runs up to 18psi on stock bottom end thats done 100000 km. I run NO advance or retard curve on a factory Bosch electronic dizzzy. I dont see why something similar could not be done on the 300 or log six. this has plenty of torque and is easy to get along with.RIMG0044.JPG
 
What I posted is a draw through system.
The type of fuel will be up to the original poster.
Fuel use is OF course down to owners opinion, I chose LPG for the reasons I spoke of above. I do understand that its not widely used in USA, which is a puzzle to me, could you give me some rundowns on its availability and cost for you guys. The price here is a bout 95cents per litre ($4 gallon) and its easily available here in Victoria, for instance, there are 5 outlets just in my town in Gippsland. Ive worked with gas fuels over many years and although I would prefer CNG, its NOT available for auto use. A draw through petrol setup could be done with a single point EFI. I run 9:1 cr in mine and timing is fixed at 25degrees BTDC, i get no knock, ping or any other ignition problems. because I have had such a good experience with this I want everybody to know about it. Setting up the drive was relativey easy, it has an idler on the back of the belt, but its fixed.
 
Basically.
You will need to mount the supercharger and get the drive belt alignment right.
Then fabricate an intake manifold for a 4barrel carburetor that feeds into the inlet of the supercharger.

You will also need to figure out what you want to do for an intake manifold between the engine and the supercharger.

The carburetor will need a modification so that the power valve is referenced to the intake manifold vacuum on the engine rather than the manifold it sits on.

You will also need an ignition system that retards the timing as the boost increases.
You can start with 1 degree of timing retard for each 1 lb of boost.

It would be a good option to use a camshaft that would work better with that supercharger.
Do I have to use a 4bbl carb?
 
Do I have to use a 4bbl carb?
No, any carburetor upstream of the blower can be whatever you like, a sidedraft Weber DCOE or Delorto equivilent will work. The size is slightly less important than NA because of the suction that a blower can provide. I run a "carby" rated at only 400cfm and I get lotsa manifold pressure even at part throttle. Sidedraft may fit more easily. The other common sidedraft carb is the SU or Stromberg CD, these have been commonly used and run well, you would need the 2inch SU to get the power. Ive run A weber 45dcoe on a turbo engine years ago, its was plenty big enough for a 3.3litre engine. Down here sidedraft carbys are used quite a bit, webers are very tunable, everything can be altered to get best performance, main jets idle jets pump jets, air correctors, emulsion tubes venturis secondary venturis, ram tubes. And there is several different throat sizes, 38-48mm. In this reagrd they are superior to most of the other aftermarket carbys. If you want to run EFI Im sure you could find a throttle body to use.
 
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