Engine out...rear main, clutch, ???

[twodogs]

I have a 200 cid inline six in my '74 Bronco. I've had the rig for about a year. I'm not a mechanic but I'm fairly handy at remodeling/restoring. The engine runs great but I noticed what I suspected was a rear main leak. I pulled the engine today to take care of that. I know I could have left the engine in place but I suspected the bellhousing had a good amount of gunk that was fouling my clutch. The clutch is pretty smooth, but I get some chatter primarily only on reverse.

I've included a few pics to better explain what I have in front of me. My questions so far are:
In the pic showing the seal cap, notice that I put a black line with a sharpie on the left side. I was wondering if that's basically where I need to apply anaerobic flange sealant. I was only going to put RTV on the seal ends, as well as a small amount to plug the hole where the pin was to keep the rope seal in place.

It's clear that I'll need to clean out the bellhousing. Any tips besides a putty knife and some brake cleaner?

Lastly, I don't know how old the clutch is but it is pretty smooth even with all that gunk in the bellhousing. When do you decide to put in a new clutch versus cleaning up and reinstalling the old one?

Thanks for any help you can provide to this novice!
Brent

 

[twodogs]

Thought I'd add a pic of the actual rig. It's pretty much all original, including the paint. I do love it!

 

[bubba22349]

Very good looking Bronco! Yes there has been a lot of oil in the bell and clutch. Hard for me to tell by the angle of your picture but it looks like the pressure plate might be setting uneven i.e. higher then the other two mounting positions, If that's the case it would explain the chattering. To check it out measure from the plate surface to the mounting at each of the three locations this measurement should be the same at each place. If it's not I would then replace the pressure pate while it's out and the clutch disk also with new or rebuilt set and have the flywheel re surfaced since it looks like it was slipping badly somtime in its past. Are you going to the neoprene or the rope rear main seal? Best of luck

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, nice Bronco. Glad you made it. Good thing you decided to pull the motor. It looks like the clutch is worn out. It looks like you are down to the rivets.
Your clutch with six springs looks like my 9" clutch. Did you measure it?
Do you know there are two different pilot bushings? Make sure you get the bigger one and check to make sure it all fits, on the input shaft and in the crank.
I think you are planning to use too much anaerobic sealant. My Chilton's manual shows to use a small dot by the "U" shape on the cap, way outboard, not near the seal, and a small line on the block, in the corner of the recess for the cap, halfway from the back of the block, stopping before the bolt holes. And you should know the seal has a front and back, it should be oiled first, and is offset @ 3/8".
I highly recommend an service manual like factory or Chilton's, you will refer to a manual many time to repair your Bronco.
The main bearing looks OK. If you remove it you can see if it is standard size or undersize, telling if the crank has been cut. I would also check a rod bearing for wear. You do not want to see any copper color. I think the rods usually wear out before the mains.
As Bubba said, it is probably a good idea to machine the flywheel, to get a new and flat surface. If you decide to leave it, at least scuff it clean with a rolac disc on a die grinder. And don't forget to use thread sealant on the flywheel bolts.
Good luck

 

[wsa111]

Here is my old write up on the neoprene rear main seal.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16752&p=117250&hilit=seal#p117250

 

[twodogs]

Thank you all for the information! I'm going to attack the bellhousing mess tomorrow. After removing the majority of the crap with a putty knife, would it be okay to use oven (yes, oven) cleaner to get the last bit?

My clutch is 9 3/8" and a replacement doesn't seem the easiest to find. Several online places either list a 9" or an 11" when I fill in the engine information. I've called several driveline and transmission shops and the common recommendation was to send it to a clutch rebuilder. I'm good with a rebuild instead of a workaround. They'll grind the flywheel as well. Let me know if you'd counsel otherwise on getting it rebuilt.

Thanks for the sealant information. I'll be picking up some FIPG today. I’ll be putting in a Felpro 2-piece neoprene seal. I have both the original and newer Chilton's manual and had been using the original one. Lo and behold, page 149 of the newer one shows exactly where to put the sealer. Thanks B RON CO. Guess I just learned to use all of the shop manuals at my disposal.

I'll take a look at the main bearing, and will see what I can figure out regarding the rod bearings. It's pretty new to me so simplicity like copper coloring is perfect. Off to the shop....

 

[chad]

just too many details to list here. We support the use of "outside help" (shop manie, experienced friends, etc)
AND
a run thru here as many do not know the ins'n outs of the i6 like the ppl here.
~roller bearing 4 da clutch, other fine points like Bill's on best practices on seal & 'snot' dabs. Putting in the mopowr 5 speed I hada put the proper spline count clutch ona center to slowly turn and to grind dwn the outter lip inorder to fit in my bell (SBF).
I C no prob w/oven cleaner (it sprays) except expense and need to cover prts to keep it offa dem. Y not the usual shop spray for this?

 

[twodogs]

I already have a roller bearing on order from Tom’s Broncos. I sized things up today and I’ve decided to get a new clutch if I can find one. I’d like to not have to grind the bellhousing if at all possible. I’d love it if anyone could point me to a 9 3/8” clutch for this thing. At this point, that’s the holy grail, since I think I’ve got the rest of the stuff sourced.

I’ll be replacing the rod bearings. Looked a little too copper to me. Not too hard to do and they’re right there.

One last question on the rear main seal. I noticed the grooves shown in the attached pic. Will a 2-piece neoprene seal work (assuming it’s installed correctly)? Sure looks like a wonderful bunch of channels for oil to migrate right past the seal.

 

[bubba22349]

Your Bronco six has the largest clutch that was used in them, it’s going to be a 9 inch disk, so if you ask for a 9 inch clutch kit or get one for the year of your Bronco you will get the right unit. As far as using the oven cleaner on bell housing if it’s an Aluminum bell might not be the best idea, if you do use it be careful since the lye in the oven cleaner will arrack aluminum so make sure it’s rinsed off really good. If the bell is cast iron then it won’t hurt it at all. Good luck

 

[bmbm40]

Nice looking Bronco! Yep put a new clutch in as long as it is apart. New timing chain also then you will be all set for 150k miles or so. Check out the Falcon Performance Handbook when you get a chance.

 

[twodogs]

Your Bronco six has the largest clutch that was used in them, it’s going to be a 9 inch disk, so if you ask for a 9 inch clutch kit or get one for the year of your Bronco you will get the right unit. As far as using the oven cleaner on bell housing if it’s an Aluminum bell might not be the best idea, if you do use it be careful since the lye in the oven cleaner will arrack aluminum so make sure it’s rinsed off really good. If the bell is cast iron then it won’t hurt it at all. Good luck

From what I've read, there was a 9" and a 9 3/8" used in the 200, and mine definitely measures 9 3/8". If a 9" is all I can get then I guess that's what I'll pick. I've just been trying to stick as close to stock when replacing parts. I struck out at Napa, Autozone, and O'Reilly Auto. Rock Auto lists an 11" clutch for the rig when I choose the 200 3.3 L6. Very odd.

It's a cast bellhousing. I thought of oven cleaner when I saw the mess but perhaps brake cleaner would accomplish the task as well.

 

[twodogs]

Nice looking Bronco! Yep put a new clutch in as long as it is apart. New timing chain also then you will be all set for 150k miles or so. Check out the Falcon Performance Handbook when you get a chance.

Thank you! I was planning on the timing chain too. I've got the Handbook already and will be using it when I start making performance upgrades. I know that having the engine out would be a perfect time to do all that work. However, I'd like to read the Handbook (and this site) so that I can take an educated approach to the upgrades. Pulling the engine wasn't too bad so I guess I'll just have to do it again down the road. A smarter man would do things differently...

 

[bubba22349]

Did you say there’s a clutch rebuilder near you? Also I used to get custom built clutches for my race cars from McCloud you might call them and see if they have one of those 9 3/8 or would rebuild yours. Here’s a link to a new diagram type clutch kit to.

https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product ... bronco-new

Best of luck

 

[twodogs]

Did you say there’s a clutch rebuilder near you? Also I used to get custom built clutches for my race cars from McCloud you might call them and see if they have one of those 9 3/8 or would rebuild yours. Here’s a link to a new diagram type clutch kit to.

https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product ... bronco-new

Best of luck

Thanks bubba! I saw that one on TBP and noticed that it requires grinding the bellhousing. I found a couple of places that will do a rebuild and I may be going that direction again after not having much luck on my search for one that is a straightforward fit. Thanks for the McCloud info; I'll reach out to them tomorrow. If nothing else, I'm sure it will help to talk to folks that deal with thousands of these. I never would have guessed a clutch kit for this rig would be a unicorn.

 

[Econoline]

That oil killed your clutch. I've had good luck with oven cleaner and engine parts. Not sure how well it plays with aluminum though. Super Clean is an amazing all purpose cleaner as well. Half strength that stuff can make your grill look brand new after a 15 minute soak. If the trans wasn't still in the car I'd say take the bell to the machine shop and have them run it through the cleaner. Worth the $15-25

 

[chad]

guy put my 170 (1 motor ago) car engine in the bronk (pre 1980s) had trouble findin a clutch. After 30 yrs of plowin, & haulin logs in the woods I hada go to an transmission guy to figure what to get.
I told ya how I got the last 1 in...
Forget those bronk vendors. They throw away these motors, only know bent8

 

[drag-200stang]

I already have a roller bearing on order from Tom’s Broncos. I sized things up today and I’ve decided to get a new clutch if I can find one. I’d like to not have to grind the bellhousing if at all possible. I’d love it if anyone could point me to a 9 3/8” clutch for this thing. At this point, that’s the holy grail, since I think I’ve got the rest of the stuff sourced.

I’ll be replacing the rod bearings. Looked a little too copper to me. Not too hard to do and they’re right there.

One last question on the rear main seal. I noticed the grooves shown in the attached pic. Will a 2-piece neoprene seal work (assuming it’s installed correctly)? Sure looks like a wonderful bunch of channels for oil to migrate right past the seal.

Do not worry about the grooves...The grooves are still there after ford went to the two piece, so they must of wanted it that way because it costs money to made the grooves.

 

[wme013]

The grooves in the rear of the crank are an oil "pump" to help keep from flooding the rear seal.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, if the 9" pressure plate is a direct bolt on to the flywheel I think it will work fine.
The "Long" style three finger pressure plate is what Ford used. There is also a thick and thin throwout bearing. I like to stay with the original style parts. If you want a diaphragm style setup make sure you get the correct throwout bearing. You may also have to make the rod that pushes the clutch fork longer.
Good luck

 

[twodogs]

The grooves in the rear of the crank are an oil "pump" to help keep from flooding the rear seal.

Thanks for the response. Not long after posting my message, I actually got to wondering if that was the case.