All Small Six Drilling out oil drain back holes in 200ci block
- Thread starter Goldie
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
Goldie
Well-known member
I apologize for the delay in updating you on our problems, but I'm happy to report that all has been resolved! Unfortunately, improper lifters took out our cam. But, as they say, everything happens for a reason! We removed the engine, installed the proper lifters (Sealed Power for small block Ford), purchased a new cam from Howard's Cams that was a little more performance oriented (.516 lift with our roller rockers and 221 degrees of duration at .050), and installed with 4 degrees of advance. Pistons were removed, cleaned, cylinders rehoned, and oil drain back passages opened up for better flow. The oil passage at the back of the block has now been blocked off properly (initially it had the set-screw installed way too deep by the machine shop), Main bearings had to be replaced as well. We have reinstalled the motor a couple of weeks ago and have logged about 250 miles on it. All I can say is WOW!! What a difference! The car has plenty of power, runs like a dream, doesn't smoke, doesn't blow oil, and doesn't leak a drop! The power band is really impressive, and even with a stock rear end with tall gears, the C4 Cruise-O-Matic with the 2500 stall speed converter is proving to be a great combo.
The icing on the cake is that we have taken it to our first show of the season, and everyone was so impressed with car, and particularly the engine, that we took a top 30 award out of a pretty big field of some really nice cars! (photos attached)
What's next? More break in miles, oil change shortly (running break in oil now), and doing a compression test on each cylinder so we have a bench mark going forward, in the event that we start to experience any problems. Then more shows and a really fantastic summer of fun enjoying "Goldie"!
My husband and I are grateful to each of you for your time and your suggestions. It takes a village, as they say, and getting to this point certainly proved that to be true. We couldn't have done it without so many of you.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!
The icing on the cake is that we have taken it to our first show of the season, and everyone was so impressed with car, and particularly the engine, that we took a top 30 award out of a pretty big field of some really nice cars! (photos attached)
What's next? More break in miles, oil change shortly (running break in oil now), and doing a compression test on each cylinder so we have a bench mark going forward, in the event that we start to experience any problems. Then more shows and a really fantastic summer of fun enjoying "Goldie"!
My husband and I are grateful to each of you for your time and your suggestions. It takes a village, as they say, and getting to this point certainly proved that to be true. We couldn't have done it without so many of you.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!
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The re-rebuild is a total bummer, super glad it worked out in the end. That is such a great car.
fast64ranchero
Well-known member
I've had 3 engines running Terra Yella RR and the oiling to the top has always been light. Wondering if you got a set of lifters that are allowing too much oil passage?
The lifters did not have any oil control. There was a straight through passage from the side of the lifter to the pushrod seat.
The lifters have been replaced along with a new cam and all is well.
Same here mate.
I have no idea what lifters they used considering is the same as a Windsor/Cleveland lifter.
9/10 its because its leaking oil from the old shaft rocker port but someone fits a high volume pump to mask the problem.
Hi fast64ranchero & Cox Custom Mechanical, yes the Lifters that were used were suppose to be a 289 / 302 / 351 V8 Spec Lifter, they are thought to have been sourced from O’Reilly Auto Parts. They look to be some kind of an Off Shore Copy and yes they do have much larger Oil Passage Holes and as pmuller9 posted above had no internal metering, so they were allowing way to much Oil Flow through them. I don't think anyone knows what brand they were so that part is a going to be a Mystery. It's also a cautionary tale for others to never just buy some set of budget or no name lifters without first really examining them. Also if you don't know what to really look for in a Quality Lifter than it's better to get the recommended ones from your Cam supplier along with your new Camshaft for the install. Those above generic Lifters along with a new Clay Smith Cam came with the engine package and all of the other parts. In the end that new Clay Smith Cam suffered some wiped out Lobes and the Lifters were also toast maybe they were even on the soft side with improper Heat Treating. As Goldie stated in her above post its all been repaired is back together again with a new Cam, Quality Lifters, which also fixed the "Excessive Top End Oiling Issue" and it's now running better than before.
Glad you got it sorted out. I was wondering about the grooved lifter discussion, and I was reminded of a topic in the Engine Tech section regarding this. A picture shows small grooves cut into the top section of the lifter body. The description claims it allows extra drainback to oil the distributor gear. The quandary I see is that the grooves are on the lifter body above the oil galley. Oil pressure inside the galley is going to be spraying out around the lifter and the drainback is only going to have gravity on its side to enter back around the lifter. I'm wondering if the OP in that thread realizes that this can't possibly work the way he has modified the lifter and is describing the modification. Can someone clarify this with a picture of the block in that area...?
When installing the Yella Terra Roller Rocker Arms 2 of the Lifters are then moded like that to provide some Oil for the Distributor Driven Gear and Cam Drive Gear. This is now required after the Factory Rocker Arm Oiling system routing is changed, it has been Drilled, Taped, & Plugged Off, at the rear corner of the Short Block and the stock 200 Six Cylinder Lifters can't be used with the Yella Terra Roller Rocker Arm set so now you need a set of 289 / 302 V8 Oil Through Lifters that are about .150 longer than the 200 Six Lifters so are also used with the special Oil Through Push Rods that come's with the Yella Terra Roller Rocker Arm Kit's. Here is the link to that simple Lifter Mod and explains it all. https://fordsix.com/threads/yellow-terra-rocker-arm-install-tips.72383/
Yes, that's the one I'm mentioning, for that modification to work, shouldn't the grooves be in the lower section of the lifter body below the oil band. The gear is below the oil galley isn't it. If you groove the upper portion of the lifter body, it will only allow oil spray from the galley to spray into the area where the pushrods are, not below the galley where the gears are....
The First of the 3 Block Oil Drain Back Holes located in the Lifter Galley is between those two Moded Lifters so the Oil Drains directly down onto the Distributor Gear And Camshafts Gear. These Galley Drain Back Holes are hard to see unless looking from the bottom side without the Camshaft installed. Also if you look at the Ford Small Six Lifter Galley position you can see that it sets down quite low in the Block and just above the Camshaft thought the Lifter Bosses. The Push Rods are well down into that Lifter Galley, the Head also sets over the Top of that Lifter Galley so that most all of that Oil is being contained in there except for the Oil that is now feed up through those Push Rods to the Rocker Arms. The Push Rods have around 1/2 or more their length inside of that Lifter galley, also none of these Ford small Six's have a side cover on them so Lifter need to be installed before the Head is installed.
In this video at the 6:04 to the 6:25 mark you can see a 1965 200 Six Head removed looking down at the Push Rod Holes you can also kind of see the out line of how the Head covers over the Lifter Galley. At the 6.53 to 9:20 shows the Cleaned Bare Block plus Prep to start of the Camshaft install and see the location of the Cam. At the 11:15 to 11:57 mark you can also see most of the other features of the 200 Six’s as a Bare block.
In this video at the 6:04 to the 6:25 mark you can see a 1965 200 Six Head removed looking down at the Push Rod Holes you can also kind of see the out line of how the Head covers over the Lifter Galley. At the 6.53 to 9:20 shows the Cleaned Bare Block plus Prep to start of the Camshaft install and see the location of the Cam. At the 11:15 to 11:57 mark you can also see most of the other features of the 200 Six’s as a Bare block.
Oiling mods to the distributor gear are not necessary in most applications even with Y/T roller rockers.
Most 5/16 pushrods are hollow and allow for oil feed.
Why put a plug in the block? Plug the head..
Goldie
Well-known member
Hi guys! Thanks for all of your comments and discussion. We have learned a ton with this build. We were at the mercy, originally, of what the machine shop did… but, after getting to the bottom of the problem, replacing the lifters with small block Ford Sealed Power lifters, and the new improved Howard’s Cam, we couldn’t be more pleased with the outcome. We also rehoned the cylinders, chamfered and enlarged the oil drain back holes, installed new main bearings and secured the oil plug at the back of the block at the proper depth. This engine runs amazing! Here are a couple of short clips during break in. Today we did a compression test and first oil change at 400 miles. All looked great, plugs burning clean, no metallic in oil. Cylinders 1-5 @ 160psi. Cyl 6 @ 170 psi. Not sure why but possibly rings in cyl 6 seated in a little more. We also kept the 60% restricted oil through pushrods that we used originally. No leaks, no blow by, and can’t believe the difference. Today we added a 1” rear swaybar to the mods and KYB gas adjust shocks. Was a bit tricky with the dual exhaust but got it to work. Can’t believe the difference with how the four tires now grip the road. Also, being thick in tread, but 9 yrs old, we ordered new tires today which should make the grip even better!
Thanks again everyone! Wish you could all see (and feel the power!) now!!
Thanks again everyone! Wish you could all see (and feel the power!) now!!
