What distributor do you have? What carburetor do you have?
All Small Six 200 idling poorly
- Thread starter smontalvford
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
Here is a simple procedure to check for timing chain stretch:
Step 1
Remove all spark plugs.Step 2
Pull the distributor cap off the engine by unbolting it off. Observe the current rotor position.Step 3
Take a breaker bar with a socket that will fit on the crankshaft pulley. Put it on the crankshaft damper pulley, making sure it fits.Step 4
Turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise, slowly. Watch the rotor in the distributor. When the rotor starts moving, stop turning.Step 5
Mark the damper pulley position with chalk or a marker so you can remember the exact position. The mark should be placed on the crankshaft damper.Step 6
Turn the crankshaft in the opposite direction carefully and slowly. Pay attention to the rotor in the distributor. Once it begins to move, stop turning immediately.Step 7
Mark the second crankshaft position again.Step 8
Measure the number of degrees of rotation of the crankshaft. Wrap a measuring tape around the crankshaft damper where the marks are located to measure the circumference of the damper. Then measure the distance between the two marks made.Step 9
Divide the distance between the two marks by the total circumference of the damper. Multiply the result by 360, which is the total number of degrees in a circle. The result will the give you the amount of degrees between the two marks.A chain that isn't loose will have about three to five degrees of reverse motion before the distributor begins to turn. A timing chain that is very loose and needs to be replaced will have 10 or more degrees of reverse motion.
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I read over this thread and I could not find anything about checking vacuum leaks on:
1• c4 vacuum modulator line
2• distributor vacuum advance canister (Check for ruptured diaphragm)
3• faulty PCV valve line. (Check for cracks)
4• If the car has power brakes (which I don’t think yours has) check the brake booster and hose.
This can be done by purchasing a vacuum pump from Harbor Freight or automotive supply store.
It can also be done by sucking on a clean vacuum hose. But I don’t recommend it to others unless it’s an emergency.
All the things listed in this post is easy to check. And, if they were not checked, it should be done before spending more money.
1• c4 vacuum modulator line
2• distributor vacuum advance canister (Check for ruptured diaphragm)
3• faulty PCV valve line. (Check for cracks)
4• If the car has power brakes (which I don’t think yours has) check the brake booster and hose.
This can be done by purchasing a vacuum pump from Harbor Freight or automotive supply store.
It can also be done by sucking on a clean vacuum hose. But I don’t recommend it to others unless it’s an emergency.
All the things listed in this post is easy to check. And, if they were not checked, it should be done before spending more money.
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Another thing to do once the items listed in the post above were checked for vacuum leaks. Pull the vacuum line off the distributor and plug it with a pencil or some other object. It the engine clears out and starts idling fine then the vacuum advance is probably over advancing during idle.
The base timing should also be checked on the engine with the vacuum line disconnected from the distributor.
The base timing should also be checked on the engine with the vacuum line disconnected from the distributor.
smontalvford
New member
Ok worth checking, the modulator is brand new that said the line from it to the manifold I have not fully checked…
Replacing the coil with a flamethrower 3.0 ohms made no difference
smontalvford
New member
I have an Autolite 1100 with scv and this distributor:
New Distributor Compatible With 1965-1973 Compatible With Mustang Inline 6 2.8 170 3.3 200 4.1 250, Replaces C6DF 12127-A, C6DF 12127-C, C6DF 12127-D, C6DF 12127-E
Pertronix 1261 electronic ignition
Pertronix flamethrower 3.0 ohms coil
I wish I knew about this modification 47 years ago:
Delete SCV on 1100 Autolite for Ported Vacuum
Here are the instructions to delete the SCV on a Autolite 1100 & convert the vacuum port to ported vacuum. You need a #36 drill bit to drill a shallow hole to just the depth of the 6-32" brass set screw. You will use 3 of these set screws. Tap only the orifices circled in red there are three...
fordsix.com
What did you set your initial advance?
Try 12 degrees.
You cannot connect your vacuum advance on your dist. to the SCV carb., unless you modify it to eliminat the SCV.
How does it idle with no vacuum to the dist.?
yes rather than 'jump around' w/tests I’d start w/bub;s ignition tune, THEN goto his carb tune.
One must know the LOM & SCV system 1st tho.
After above is time to test cam chain stretch etc. Doing so will SYSTEMATICLY improve/rule
out wrong coil charge, etc. Start at 1 end clearing up & cont to the end w/o stop.
One must know the LOM & SCV system 1st tho.
After above is time to test cam chain stretch etc. Doing so will SYSTEMATICLY improve/rule
out wrong coil charge, etc. Start at 1 end clearing up & cont to the end w/o stop.
Load-O-Matic Distributor & Spark Control Valve
How The Stock Load-O-Matic Distributor Works Here is a little clarification on how the "Load-O-Matic" distributor works, along with the infamous "Spark Control Valve" (or SCV). Not only is it important to know how they work, especially if your...
fordsix.com
Looks like your distributor is a Cardone 84-2613 sold by Amazon. That unit is a "dual advance" type that has both vacuum and centrifugal advance. Your Autolite 1100 SCV has a vacuum port for a Load-A-Matic distributor with only vacuum advance. Take off the distributor cap and see if you see two coil springs which the Load-A-Matic has. If not you have the wrong distributor which is for a true "ported " vacuum source from the the carb, not an SCV type. The Cardone 84-2612 (new) or the 30-2612 (reman) works with the Autolite 1100 SCV.
You have two choices, if you have a loadamatic distributor & a SCV carb that is one version.
If you have a distributor with centrifugal advance & vacuum advance, you cannot use a SCV carb.
Junk both of them & if you have the $$$ go with a DS11 & a non SCV carb.
A lot of members use a Weber carb with an adapter with a recurved DS11 & improve your performance & economy.
All of the remanufactured distriburtors are not curved for your engine.
If you have a distributor with centrifugal advance & vacuum advance, you cannot use a SCV carb.
Junk both of them & if you have the $$$ go with a DS11 & a non SCV carb.
A lot of members use a Weber carb with an adapter with a recurved DS11 & improve your performance & economy.
All of the remanufactured distriburtors are not curved for your engine.
What Alkraut (and most others) have said is right. You have the most common mismatch of carb type (SCV) and distributor type (non-SCV). Most people that don’t know all the nuances of Ford six cylinders don’t know about this issue. I’ve known many good Ford car guys that don’t know it and buy/install mismatched parts. The innate smoothness of the six cylinder masks poor running to a certain extent, but when you’ve got the right parts combination with a healthy six, it can run smooth as butter.
Most of the aftermarket doesn’t understand this issue either and worsens the confusion when they market distributors for all years 65-73. Carb manufacturers/ remanufacturers aren’t any better- buy a carb for a 68+ six and you’ve got a good chance of finding a SCV style carb in that box. Will an engine run with this mismatch? Yes, but never well. Idle, transition, top end will each or all be unsatisfying.
Double-check your distributor like Alkraut says, and assuming you confirm it is a dual advance, that’s the part you should stick with. Either modify the carb to non-SCV as linked above or get one that isn’t SCV to start with (OEM, Weber, etc). Then you will be matched all non-SCV parts. This beats going the other direction and matching everything SCV because that was a system that worked OK for it’s day but is not the most desirable design.
When you get that all sorted and running smoothly and want even more “free” pep and performance from your six, I recommend looking to Bill to custom fine-tune your advance curve. Unfortunately the advance curve on a “one size fits all” distributor is not optimized for your exact engine, so it can be improved. 30 years ago I used to install those do-it-yourself lighter spring kits and move the distributor cam plates to the longer slot for more advance, but that was all trial and error. Bill has recurved a couple distributors for me in recent years that have shown me the spot on results when he does it professionally on a machine.
Most of the aftermarket doesn’t understand this issue either and worsens the confusion when they market distributors for all years 65-73. Carb manufacturers/ remanufacturers aren’t any better- buy a carb for a 68+ six and you’ve got a good chance of finding a SCV style carb in that box. Will an engine run with this mismatch? Yes, but never well. Idle, transition, top end will each or all be unsatisfying.
Double-check your distributor like Alkraut says, and assuming you confirm it is a dual advance, that’s the part you should stick with. Either modify the carb to non-SCV as linked above or get one that isn’t SCV to start with (OEM, Weber, etc). Then you will be matched all non-SCV parts. This beats going the other direction and matching everything SCV because that was a system that worked OK for it’s day but is not the most desirable design.
When you get that all sorted and running smoothly and want even more “free” pep and performance from your six, I recommend looking to Bill to custom fine-tune your advance curve. Unfortunately the advance curve on a “one size fits all” distributor is not optimized for your exact engine, so it can be improved. 30 years ago I used to install those do-it-yourself lighter spring kits and move the distributor cam plates to the longer slot for more advance, but that was all trial and error. Bill has recurved a couple distributors for me in recent years that have shown me the spot on results when he does it professionally on a machine.
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i dont think any "idle perfectly". this is nota modern efi seq port system. however many do really well when following the steps laid out in this thread, quite a few - “better than”.
EDIT:
o0OP, I see the last writer hits this point early in thread. Should have read further.
WHere our points rest is the very nature ofa net car site - the difficulty of remote diagnosis. Even w/a vid of the car running we cant get things -
as accuratly as boots on the ground.
My carb engines all always idle better than EFI engines. And fire-off instantly, something EFI engines don't
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