All Small Six 200 idling poorly

[smontalvford]

Guys not sure what is wrong with my 200 with Autolite 1100 but it has never idled properly, almost like there is a miss. A little background:

New plug wires
New plugs
New fuel filter
Got rid of points and installed pertronix, timing ok? Guess not sure how to do that…
I can’t seem to find a leak but who knows
Idling about 750 or so and like 650 in gear

It just seems to skip or miss at idle, what could it be???

Videos:
Poor idle 1
Poor idle 2

Is this clamp normal? See below

Thank you all for the help!

Santiago

 

[78_200_C4]

Sounds normal for many 200's with an Autolite 1100.
The timing could be too far advanced if the intial timing was set to the auto trans setting with a stick shift Load'O'Matic distributor.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I would do a compression test and run it with a vacuum gauge to find out more about the condition of the engine.
The hose clamp is holding a replacement choke stove tube to the exhaust manifold. Hot air is drawn through the tube to warm the choke spring. The original tube rotted away. Good luck

 

[smontalvford]

Hi, I would do a compression test and run it with a vacuum gauge to find out more about the condition of the engine.
The hose clamp is holding a replacement choke stove tube to the exhaust manifold. Hot air is drawn through the tube to warm the choke spring. The original tube rotted away. Good luck

What will normal numbers be?

 

[Frank]

Sounds like early timing or an intermittent ignition miss. Putting a timing light on the coil-to-distributor wire (not #1 wire) and shining on a reflective surface will reveal any intermittent miss. If there is none, retarding base timing may clear it up. .

 

[78_200_C4]

Too much vacuum advance at idle can cause an intermittent miss.
The venturi advance port in a Load'O'Matic Autolite 1100 is a vacuum leak at idle.

 

[chad]

what yr is the engine? An example that was gone post '68:

Load-O-Matic Distributor & Spark Control Valve

How The Stock Load-O-Matic Distributor Works Here is a little clarification on how the "Load-O-Matic" distributor works, along with the infamous "Spark Control Valve" (or SCV). Not only is it important to know how they work, especially if your...

fordsix.com

Look 1/2 way dwn page to SCV.
Peruse more of this source - Tech Archive, @ blue horizontal line @ top of this page if U wish.

Clamp looks to hold nothing. Flappin 'cloth' (asbestos) in pic covers a tube that was inserted
ina lill hole in exh manifold @ split above 3 / 4 cyl's exhaust (further to R in pic, or more toward
firewall/rear of motor).

 

[CWT1129]

Hey guys, when adding headers, where do you guys suggest I re hook up the automatic choke tube to since the original manifold will be gone?

 

[chad]

I like 'closed system' as much as possible / everywhere (air cleaner, PCV, oil system, fuel, etc).
So for THERE I like a brass 'end cap'/carb... /and/ ele choke (wired to the stator lug on altern. or a newer system
that hasa sensor to 'motor hot spot').
ALSO
I lub me Mike's carbs:

Mike's Carburetor Parts

www.carburetor-parts.com

He's got all kinda stuff~
HTH

 

[Frank]

Hey guys, when adding headers, where do you guys suggest I re hook up the automatic choke tube to since the original manifold will be gone?

You'll have to fab a little something to collect the heat. Having enough tube to bend it 90* and lay 2 or 3" flat on the header pipe, wrap it and hold it with a hose clamp, for example. Converting the black cover to an electric choke works well on those tube design carbs. The choke action is more accurate, and the choke unloads (opens fully) more quickly, which is a major reason for converting here in a warm climate. Also, that hot air system is a vacuum leak. The unfiltered air that is sucked into the tube exhales into the intake and goes thru the engine. They work ok, but I never liked the raw air going in the engine. Every one I've converted the engine idles better and mileage goes up because the choke is not taking too long to open.

 

[CWT1129]

Frank, what the vacuum leak with that type of choke cause the engine to stall after long periods of driving. I noticed this weekend, that the car starts, high and low idles great. But after awhile, it idles rough and then stalls. I am not sure if it’s running lean or what. It also sounds like it’s missing sometimes. Any thoughts? Is there a way to upgrade my 1v Holley carb to electric?

 

[Frank]

No the choke air tube will not cause this hot condition.
Converting to electric choke is not a cure for the warm engine issue.
Is the carb and intake getting really hot? IF the carb is going lean, the symptom mimics vapor lock symptoms, but this does not usually occur under driving conditions, and would indicate excessive heat in the fuel/carb.
If there is a heat riser in the exhaust manifold, it could be stuck closed causing intake overheating.
Gas line to or from the pump touching the block or somehow exposed to excessive heat? It's also possible that the fuel pump is weak. Clogged fuel filter. .
Late ignition timing at RPM will cause high manifold temp. Is the engine coolant temp normal? If you drive long or at higher speeds, does the engine temp gradually rise above normal temps?

If you've got an infrared thermometer, check the temp of the intake at the base of the carb when the engine acts up hot.

It's possibly ignition too. Points gap too closed, for example...

Mike's Carburetors is an excellent go-to for quality parts and hard to find parts and jets for old carbs.

Ford & Mercury Electric Choke Conversion Kit

www.carburetor-parts.com

 

[bubba22349]

From you above Video it shows that the Choke is fully Open so the replacement Hot Air Stove from the Exhaust Manifold to the Choke Housing and all the other Choke parts are working correctly. Try spraying some Carb Cleaner around the Base of Carb (Barrymen's is a good one) and especially down at the Throttle Shaft on the Lever / Linkage Arm side to see if you have any Vacuum Leaks there. Did you do a Compression Test yet or Check the Tune Up Settings? A simple check with a Fuel Pump Pressure / Vacuum Gauge can also show the engines over all condition. Good luck

These are the Basic Stock Tune Up Settings for a 1965 Ford Mustang 200 Six with Automatic Transmission.

6-200 Auto trans​

With the Pertronix Ignitor the Plugs can be set to a wider Gap of up to .045 Stock Plug & Gap is the Autolite BF-82/.034 ​

Firing Order 153624​

Base Timing 12° BTDC​

Carb Idle RPM 525 in Drive and Park Brake Set​

 

[CWT1129]

So the feul pump is newer and the engine does not overheat driving at higher speeds or driving for a long time. I would think valor lock would occur when starting the engine. Is it possible too much feul in the carb would cause the rough idling and stalling? Points were replaced two years ago i believe. Carb was also rebuilt about two years ago as well. Apparently the last owner had issues with stalling under acceleration. So the carb was rebuilt. There was also concern that the automatic choke was problematic d/t the long time it would take for the car to warm up. ThIs is why I was asking if this was a choke thing?

 

[bubba22349]

If the Car takes a long time to warm up then maybe the Choke Cover isn't set correctly from the angle of the Video I can't really see were the Choke Covers Index Mark is in relation to the Choke Body Housing, usually I set these to the 1 or 2 Rich position in Warmer areas and a little more Rich another 1 or 2 notch Marks in the cooler climates. Yes it's possible that to much Fuel in the Carb from a Float setting to High which will allow to much fuel as the engine gets warmer and than starts to dump some extra Fuel down the Carb Throat often time you can even see this too with the air Cleaner off with the engines running, check for that the next time it happens.

Vapor Lock won't happen on a cold engine when starting, it usually seen when the engine has been run for decent amount of time were it is good and warm then when you shut it off for a short stop and try to restart the engine again it's hard starting. I thought you said in the first post that you went to a Pertronix Electronic? So if you still have points than the gap needs to be checked a basic setting to get it started is a .025 Point Gap. Better yet is to use a Dwell Meter to Ideally see a reading of 38 or 39 Degrees of Dwell.

 

[CWT1129]

Hey Bubba, the first guy posted with a video. I chimed in bc I was having issues of my own. Like I said, the car starts, and idles at high and low great. I can drive for a distance with no issues. If I hop in and out after the engine is warm, it sometimes will run rough or stall. Something is causing it to run lean possibly? Frank mentioned the fuel heating up somewhere causing it ti basically run lean correct? Or is it possible that the automatic choke is messing with it. I did notice what I think might be a small misfire that I hear at the exhaust!

 

[Frank]

Hey Bubba, the first guy posted with a video. I chimed in bc I was having issues of my own. Like I said, the car starts, and idles at high and low great. I can drive for a distance with no issues. If I hop in and out after the engine is warm, it sometimes will run rough or stall. Something is causing it to run lean possibly? Frank mentioned the fuel heating up somewhere causing it ti basically run lean correct? Or is it possible that the automatic choke is messing with it. I did notice what I think might be a small misfire that I hear at the exhaust!

CWT, I didn't realize you weren't the OP. Since we haven't resolved your issue yet, starting your own thread would be appropriate.
Unless it's chugging with black smoke warmed up, the choke is not part of the warm engine issue.

 

[bubba22349]

Sorry OP I got crossed up in my thoughts I guess! CWT1129, LOL yes starting your own post would have been a little better to keep some of the issues separate, however most of what I posted above would probably also be the things that you could look at and maybe post some good pictures of yours too. Differences could be minor like what Transmission your Car might have?

 

[smontalvford]

Ok here we go again, still trying to figure this out… I have Pertronix 1266 and Flamethrower Coil, Autolite plugs set to .35. New plug wires. New fuel filter. New automatic choke mechanism. New alternator. Bottom line is it doesn’t idle properly, watch videos. I had read when using Pertronix to make sure the coil is getting a constant 12v so I bypassed the pink wire using a relay but it still idles poorly. So what is my issue? I’m thinking maybe I should go back to points and see if it runs fine then? I took the points and never took a picture, can someone post a picture from their dizzy with points? Also, any other ideas?

Idle in cold
Idle when warm

Any ideas would be appreciated, would like to maybe sell the car and running like this I won’t get top money for it.

Thank you!

Santiago M

 

[smontalvford]

I do wonder if I have the right Pertronix for my car, I have 1266 but there is also 1261, how to know which one to install and could that be causing the issue?