All Small Six 144 to a later model 200 swap in a 62 falcon

[bubba22349]

Yes it certainly could be done and get you by however it would not be the ideal. See comparisons below.

A stock 144 head can have 44 to 51 CC Combustion Chambers 48 CC would be 9.11 to 1 & 47 CC would be 9.24 (this would be about the Max for 87 Reg. fuel at Sea Level) the intake valves are 1.467 and exhaust is 1.266. The 9.63 to 8.77 CR range from the smallest to largest CC’s. The Log CC's were 850 and Carb hole is 1.500.

A stock 170 head can have 48 to 53 CC Combustion Chambers 48 CC would be 9.11 to 1 & 47 CC would be 9.24 (this would be about the Max for 87 Reg. fuel at Sea Level) . The intake valves are 1.522 a little bigger so that would help some and exhaust is the same 1.266. The Log C's were 850 and Carb hole is 1.500.

Compared to your 1978 Head it has 62 CC's these usually get milled down to have a 52 CC's Combustion Chamber or less the intake valves are the biggest at 1.750 and exhaust is also the biggest size at 1.380. The Log CC's were 1345 and Carb hole is 1.750. Hands down these late Heads will just out flow all the 1968 and older heads.

 

[mark***71852]

Man oh man.... I've put some feelers out for a 200 head...that's probably gonna be a tough find.

So just weighing options:
1)Find a usable 200 head

2) use the small log head

3) ditch the motor, install a 5 liter, c-4, 9 inch, and all that....really wasn't wanting to get into that. So it's virtually not an option.

I may end up having to go with the small head, look at bubbas numbers the 200 would be pretty starved. What a mess...

 

[Frank]

Man oh man.... I've put some feelers out for a 200 head...that's probably gonna be a tough find.

So just weighing options:
1)Find a usable 200 head

2) use the small log head

3) ditch the motor, install a 5 liter, c-4, 9 inch, and all that....really wasn't wanting to get into that. So it's virtually not an option.

I may end up having to go with the small head, look at bubbas numbers the 200 would be pretty starved. What a mess...

"It's bad", but not awful. In light of the options- the small head will run your car, and the difference in performance in normal driving mode may not be as pronounced as one may think. At low rpm small valves and intake runners are not a negative.

Not trying to build a horsepower Machine, just a drivable car. Any advice?

Yes. Use the old head on the 200. It will still be stronger than the original engine was.

EDIT: or use bubba's leads below and find a correct replacement!

 

[bubba22349]

Here are also a few places you could try asking about a Remanufactured Head

Sun Valley Auto Parts & Engines Machine Shop

Remanufactured Ford 200 L6 Short Block Engine for Sale.

Remanufactured 1963-83 Ford 200 L6 Short Block Engine for Sale. Exchange with your Good Core. We can also rebuild your good core. Falcon, Fairlane, Mustang

vapengines.com

Ford Cylinder Head 3.3L 200ci L6 E0, Year:81-84

Ford Remanufactured Cylinder Head, Year:81-84

Shop Ford Remanufactured Cylinder Head, Year:81-84 from Allied Motor Parts. Exceeds OEM specification. 1-Year Warranty. Moneyback guarantee.

www.alliedmotorparts.com

Ford Automotive Remanufactured Cylinder Heads

Ford Cylinder Heads | Remanufactured by Clearwater Cylinder

We sell New or Remanufactured Automotive Cylinder Heads for Ford. Purchase directly online from Clearwater Cylinder Heads.

www.cylinder-heads.com

 

[mark***71852]

Thanks guys I appreciate it, that gives me something to go on. I really do appreciate the help.

 

[mark***71852]

Hey guys I come to you again, hat in hand asking for help. I swear one day I'll do my best to return the favor. So I go up to the shop this morning, my thoughts were, I'd pull the head on my 144 that came out of my falcon and get the Machine shop to look it over, still weighing options....at some point I'd looked at this head and I thought I'd determined it was off a 170.... Today as I search the casting number, I believe I'm seeing something else. So my question is can you guys verify what head I have with this casting number? In case the picture isn't clear it reads as follows: C3DE-6090-D

I know what I'm finding what I run those numbers, but I really want to see if you guys could check my math, I'm second guessing myself.

 

[chad]

Where's da crack?
Some easily repair the 3/4 split if its there.
Easy enuff to try (when back on give ita few thous mi).

Any head will do (not 144s) but go for the late model 200/250 (its modernized).

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Mark, thank you for the Picture. Actually that C3DE-6090-DX9 Casting can be the one that was used on a 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 200 Six. That would be much better than a 144 Head. Those early 200 Six Heads should have a 51 to 53 CC Combustion Chamber with a 1.649 Intake Valve and a 1.380 Exhaust Valve. So if you want you could also take the larger Intake Valves from the 1978 Head and install them in that C3 Head and then do some Valve Bowl Bending, also open up the Carb Mounting Hole to 1.750 or a little more and you should have a decent working Head.

 

[chad]

ATK sell the heads in rotation (get a bunch over time - get the machinery set, run um all @ once, sell out the supply). They are sourcable thru summit and jegs alternately.
AND

Ford cylinder head 3.3 liter 1963-1983 L6 OHV Gas NA 1 1/2" carburator hole with smog

Ford cylinder head 3.3 liter L6 Year: 1963-1983 Type: OHV Fuel: Gas Family: Casting: Material: Valves: NA Special info: 1 1/2

www.americancylinderheads.com

I just go fer used, inspect them, slap on or have machined 1st. The above R a lill pricy 4 me~
HTH, Good Luck (or repair what U have - forge weld, hi nickle content rod

 

[mark***71852]

Hi Mark, thank you for the Picture. Actually that C3DE-6090-DX9 Casting can be the one that was used on a 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 200 Six. That would be much better than a 144 Head. Those early 200 Six Heads should have a 51 to 53 CC Combustion Chamber with a 1.649 Intake Valve and a 1.380 Exhaust Valve. So if you want you could also take the larger Intake Valves from the 1978 Head and install them in that C3 Head and then do some Valve Bowl Bending, also open up the Carb Mounting Hole to 1.750 or a little more and you should have a decent working Head.

I think what I'm going to do is take this head that I included the picture of to my machine shop, I have a whole lot of confidence in them, if this head checks checks out with no cracks, then I'll absolutely ask them about double this. Thanks bubba, fingers crossed for no cracks!

 

[mark***71852]

Well I wanted to come back to my original post because I FINALLY got around to finishing my build. Life man.... things get in the way . In the end I used lots and lots .....and lots of your advice. Couple of things I'd echo in case anyone is reading this later on.
A. Go ahead and buy the ford inline six book by Matt Cox and Barton Maurer It's worth having. And makes the build really simple.
B. Watch Richard parmenter *spelling" ,series on YouTube it's very thorough and correct.
C. JUST BUILD IT I have a tendency to overthink things, and I'll study things to the smallest detail, but you can do it! I'd convinced myself that this motor was something different....if you've never built an internal combustion engine it is something different, but if you have been inside an engine a time or three it's all familiar ground. While this engine does infact have a unique head with it's integral intake log, it's still fairly straightforward and honestly a simple engine.

Literally everything you need to know about these motors is right here in these forums. You will get different perspectives from different people and that's awesome, and VERY helpful. Keep in mind your build doesn't have to be exactly like the other guy, but listen to the other guy, he may have a perspective that can impact what you're doing.

My motor is nothing special, it's certainly not factory, but it is one of, if not the smoothest running motor I've personally ever built. I'm pretty sure I could set a cup of coffee on the valve cover and not spill a drop, and I absolutely wasn't expecting that!

What I did.
Local machine shop milled the head. New valves, guides, springs, modernized the seals with viatron seals. Added a little bigger valve, and did some minor bowl work. I'd have to ask my guy what all he did specifically, but the head was honestly a work of art when he was done with it. This particular machine shop ONLY does engine builds and this particular machinest had built tons of these heads years ago, he said he hadn't done one in sometime, because let's be honest, we are a dying breed.

At home machine work I honed the cylinders myself with a cheap cordless drill, I couldn't tell ya what stone I was using, I used spray lube from dollar general while honing. I had a big ridge in the two outermost cylinders, I cut them with a borrowed parts store ridge cutter. I'm no machinest again everything you need to know to do this is on this forum....and YouTube

All bearings replaced, everything was within factory spec. King brand rod bearings, perfect circle (nos from eBay) main bearings, dura bond cam bearings. DON'T LET YOUTUBE CONVINCE YOU THAT CHANGING CAM BEARINGS IS HARD, with a cheap install tool from eBay and a flashlight to shine through the oil passage I had no problems on this engine or any other engine I've ever done. YOU CAN DO IT.

Melling oil pump, cloyes timing set, Elgin brand lifters from Amazon or eBay. A chrome valve cover from eBay, a dual outlet header from eBay, a HEI ignition from eBay, a carburetor "Holley" 1904 style again from eBay. Only thing I didn't replace was the factory cam, it was mint, and honestly I just didn't see the point of dropping coin on a cam. And all new gaskets felpro brand. And I bought a bolt kit online from some random company that had them. It was good to have all the bolts I'd lost and previous owners had replaced with random bolts. I cleaned the adjustable rocker and my push rods up with some diesel and a wire brush, because I use diesel to clean all things covered in oil and grime, lubed everything up as I was building, set the lash and called it good. I've ran it enough now that I've adjusted the valves once, it's super easy and honestly I'll likely do it periodically just as routine maintenance.

I wire brushed the block, washed it, replaced the freeze plugs (I always use a little "elephant snot" yellow weather stripping adhesive on mine) primed it with off the shelf red primer, brushed on two...or four coats of Rust-Oleum navy sail blue and called it good. I painted the timing cover and oil pan silver, because I had some base coat silver, and I cleared it with top coat clear....yes I cut and buffed my oil pan but I paint cars so I mean....

My point in all of this is to say THANKS GUYS to
everyone that offered advice and guidance, and to tell anyone that might be reading this later YOU CAN DO IT. Rather your doing a factory original numbers matching build or a eBay discount on the cheap build like I did YOU CAN DO IT!

 

[bmbm40]

Well I wanted to come back to my original post because I FINALLY got around to finishing my build. Life man.... things get in the way . In the end I used lots and lots .....and lots of your advice. Couple of things I'd echo in case anyone is reading this later on.
A. Go ahead and buy the ford inline six book by Matt Cox and Barton Maurer It's worth having. And makes the build really simple.
B. Watch Richard parmenter *spelling" ,series on YouTube it's very thorough and correct.
C. JUST BUILD IT I have a tendency to overthink things, and I'll study things to the smallest detail, but you can do it! I'd convinced myself that this motor was something different....if you've never built an internal combustion engine it is something different, but if you have been inside an engine a time or three it's all familiar ground. While this engine does infact have a unique head with it's integral intake log, it's still fairly straightforward and honestly a simple engine.

Literally everything you need to know about these motors is right here in these forums. You will get different perspectives from different people and that's awesome, and VERY helpful. Keep in mind your build doesn't have to be exactly like the other guy, but listen to the other guy, he may have a perspective that can impact what you're doing.

My motor is nothing special, it's certainly not factory, but it is one of, if not the smoothest running motor I've personally ever built. I'm pretty sure I could set a cup of coffee on the valve cover and not spill a drop, and I absolutely wasn't expecting that!

What I did.
Local machine shop milled the head. New valves, guides, springs, modernized the seals with viatron seals. Added a little bigger valve, and did some minor bowl work. I'd have to ask my guy what all he did specifically, but the head was honestly a work of art when he was done with it. This particular machine shop ONLY does engine builds and this particular machinest had built tons of these heads years ago, he said he hadn't done one in sometime, because let's be honest, we are a dying breed.

At home machine work I honed the cylinders myself with a cheap cordless drill, I couldn't tell ya what stone I was using, I used spray lube from dollar general while honing. I had a big ridge in the two outermost cylinders, I cut them with a borrowed parts store ridge cutter. I'm no machinest again everything you need to know to do this is on this forum....and YouTube

All bearings replaced, everything was within factory spec. King brand rod bearings, perfect circle (nos from eBay) main bearings, dura bond cam bearings. DON'T LET YOUTUBE CONVINCE YOU THAT CHANGING CAM BEARINGS IS HARD, with a cheap install tool from eBay and a flashlight to shine through the oil passage I had no problems on this engine or any other engine I've ever done. YOU CAN DO IT.

Melling oil pump, cloyes timing set, Elgin brand lifters from Amazon or eBay. A chrome valve cover from eBay, a dual outlet header from eBay, a HEI ignition from eBay, a carburetor "Holley" 1904 style again from eBay. Only thing I didn't replace was the factory cam, it was mint, and honestly I just didn't see the point of dropping coin on a cam. And all new gaskets felpro brand. And I bought a bolt kit online from some random company that had them. It was good to have all the bolts I'd lost and previous owners had replaced with random bolts. I cleaned the adjustable rocker and my push rods up with some diesel and a wire brush, because I use diesel to clean all things covered in oil and grime, lubed everything up as I was building, set the lash and called it good. I've ran it enough now that I've adjusted the valves once, it's super easy and honestly I'll likely do it periodically just as routine maintenance.

I wire brushed the block, washed it, replaced the freeze plugs (I always use a little "elephant snot" yellow weather stripping adhesive on mine) primed it with off the shelf red primer, brushed on two...or four coats of Rust-Oleum navy sail blue and called it good. I painted the timing cover and oil pan silver, because I had some base coat silver, and I cleared it with top coat clear....yes I cut and buffed my oil pan but I paint cars so I mean....

My point in all of this is to say THANKS GUYS to
everyone that offered advice and guidance, and to tell anyone that might be reading this later YOU CAN DO IT. Rather your doing a factory original numbers matching build or a eBay discount on the cheap build like I did YOU CAN DO IT!

Congratulations. Who is your machine shop?

 

[chad]

Who assembled?

 

[mark***71852]

Who assembled?

I did everything myself. Worked out really well. I've built a few motors over the years, this was my first of this platform. I'm not geared in my shop to really do engine builds, it's not real convenient, but doable. I just don't have the space to dedicate to just engine work. But yeah I built it myself.

 

[mark***71852]

Congratulations. Who is your machine shop?

I use a shop in Texarkana, Tx "Best Engines" is the name of their shop, they've been in business for a loooooooong time. The do lots of engines for the local dirt trackers these days in this area. When I was a kid, I'm talking in the 80s they ran an add in the trade papers here (the thrifty nickel) for ready to go built crate motors, as youngsters we all would hear folks at the dragstrip talking about how so and so had a "best" built engine. So they kinda became iconic to us in our area. Consequently I've just always used them, and have had fantastic results. I was happy to know they were familiar with this particular head, to me it's a part of this platform that needs to be right, and save for the advice I got on here, which I had them implement, I had zero knowledge to offer them as to what I wanted. I ended up with two heads, one had a crack in the valve seat and the other was perfect. In My opinion and with a good amount of hours on the engine now I feel like they did well.

 

[karkev]

I sure appreciate this thread, folks. Gonna tie my 1977 200 to the original three speed in my 1960 Ranchero for now. Mechanic buddy says I need a new pilot bearing throw out bearing and pilot bushing but clutch itself looks good. Danged sure appreciate the oil tube pickup data!

 

[powerband]

"yes I cut and buffed my oil pan"

... good for at least a 1/10 sec !

great description I appreciate the 'Just Build It' K.I.S.S. approach ...
.

 

[chad]

same cam U said (stock). where did the degree end up?

 

[mark***71852]

I

same cam U said (stock). where did the degree end up?

Didn't degree it. I just set it at tdc lined up the dots and let her rip.

 

[mark***71852]

"yes I cut and buffed my oil pan"

... good for at least a 1/10 sec !

great description I appreciate the 'Just Build It' K.I.S.S. approach ...
.

Exactly but boy that 1/10 of a second sure is purty