All Small Six 144 to a later model 200 swap in a 62 falcon

[mark***71852]

I'm looking for some information, I dug around in the threads to see if I could find what I'm needing without posting, so if it's been asked before, my apologies.

I have a 1962 falcon with an 144. I also have a 200 with a C3 that by the casting numbers tells me it's from a 78. I want to do the swap, but something I'm seeing is the 200 has the rear sump oil pan that was used in the foxbody platform. Anybody done this swap or have any guidance?

I'm not real well versed in small six Fords. So any help on anything I might run into would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi mark***71852, and welcome to the Ford Six Forum! To use any year from 1978 to 1983 Fox Chassis 200 Six's with a High Mount Starter (note one exception see below) and can swap into an earlier 1960 to 1977 Ford or Mercury Small Six Chassis. You will need to find a front sump Oil Pan, Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, Dip Stick Tube, and Dip Stick from a 1965 to 1977 170 or 200 Six are the correct ones from a Falcon, Comet, or Mustang to name only a few. Use them to replace the Late 200 Six Rear Sump Oil Pan, Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, Dip Stick Tube and Dip Stick that was used in any of the Fox Chassis Cars. There usually is a second Hole in the correct location on the Short block that would then be used for the earlier type Dip Stick and its Tube than you just plug up that rear Dip Stick Hole with a Soft Plug of the right size or you could also tap that hole and use a Set Screw to seal it. The early Front Sump Oil Pans and the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube will bolt onto the later engine and have the exact same bolt Pattern as all the other 144, 170, or 200 Small Six's. Also note that if your current 1962 144 Six still has all these needed swap install parts and they are in good usable condition then you could just use them on your new 200 six swap engine I.E. the Dip Stick and it's Tube, the Oil Pan, Oil Pump Pick Up Tube (this part though might not be useable since they had a different Oil Pump). One other thing to note is that on the mid April 1974 up Water Pumps that Ford used on all the newer 200 six's are somewhat longer and you might have to try and move the Radiator forward a little to use all those 1978 200 Front Dress parts and Pulley's, Fan Spacer. That will get the 1978 200 Six bolted in on the stock Motor Mounts, after that there is a little bit of Re wiring needed for the Alternator and DuraSpark II Ignition system this is easy if you also have the 1978 200 Six factory wire harness for those parts they will transfer right into the 1962 along with the rest of those 1978 Factory parts. Next is the Later 200 Carb with it's Air Cleaner the easiest way to be able to use all those newer parts is to go to a Cable Throttle Pedal and Cable if you also have all those 1978 parts that can also be made to work good. Good Luck on your Swap.

Note that there is one exception that makes it harder to us one version of the Fox Chassis 200 Six's into the 1960 to early 1962 Ford Falcon & Comet Cars, this is the more rare 1982 & 1983 Low Mount Starter 200 Six's only made for use with the 1982 C5 Auto Transmission and due to their much Larger Bell Housings (2/3 's of the SBF V8's 6 Bolt Bell). It would take lots of hammer work to the lower firewall and trans tunnel to be able to get them to fit. They will fit in the later 1962 and newer year models since Ford went with a change in the mid 1962 Year Models to get ready for the new SBF 260 and 289 V8's being installed in the1963 1/2 Ford Falcon's and Comet's.

 

[jamyers]

You'll LOVE a 200 - I swapped a very tired 170 for a 200 years ago and loved it! Because of the 200's much more torque, I swapped from the 13" wheels and tires to some 14" wheels with the tallest tires I could fit in the rear wheel wells, and now it's much calmer driving at 70mph.

IIRC, the 144 waterpump and all pulleys, etc on the front of the engine should swap over to the 200 no problem. The oil pan and pump pickup tube may well swap over as well, I'm not sure. Pretty sure the 144 oil pump itself won't mate up to a later distributor because of a smaller pump drive on the 144.

One thing that'll come up is the transmission crossmember / mount - I found that the aftermarket one made for automatics also works find for a manual, at least using the later "3.03" toploader 3-speed.

Do a search on my username, I posted a ton of stuff when I did the swap (that was like 10 years ago, not sure they're still around).

Good luck, and ask away!

 

[rocklord]

The oil pan and pickup from the 144 should bolt up to the 78 200.

 

[mark***71852]

Thanks everyone, that's the exact information I was needing! After I posted I had the thought that maybe the 144 pan might fit I'll likely go ahead and swap in a new pump and pick up tube the 144 has the 1/4 and the 200 is the larger. I unfortunately don't have any of the wiring harness from the car itself, the dizzy is still on the motor and appears to have been being used when the motor was pulled. I'll end up getting into that as I move along. I have a brand new water pump that I'd bought for the 144, but had not installed so today as I was tearing down the 200 I got the new pump, looks like it will mount up. I had done a alternator swap on the 144 with a voltage regulator, I was intending on using that same set up. I noticed the 200 has a bigger and much better looking fan. I saw that it sticks more forward. I might combat that with an electric fan, I don't know though just a thought. I really do appreciate all the advice.

 

[mark***71852]

You'll LOVE a 200 - I swapped a very tired 170 for a 200 years ago and loved it! Because of the 200's much more torque, I swapped from the 13" wheels and tires to some 14" wheels with the tallest tires I could fit in the rear wheel wells, and now it's much calmer driving at 70mph.

IIRC, the 144 waterpump and all pulleys, etc on the front of the engine should swap over to the 200 no problem. The oil pan and pump pickup tube may well swap over as well, I'm not sure. Pretty sure the 144 oil pump itself won't mate up to a later distributor because of a smaller pump drive on the 144.

One thing that'll come up is the transmission crossmember / mount - I found that the aftermarket one made for automatics also works find for a manual, at least using the later "3.03" toploader 3-speed.

Do a search on my username, I posted a ton of stuff when I did the swap (that was like 10 years ago, not sure they're still around).

Good luck, and ask away!

Yes sir, I currently have 14 inch steel wheels on it.

 

[bubba22349]

Thanks everyone, that's the exact information I was needing! After I posted I had the thought that maybe the 144 pan might fit I'll likely go ahead and swap in a new pump and pick up tube the 144 has the 1/4 and the 200 is the larger. I unfortunately don't have any of the wiring harness from the car itself, the dizzy is still on the motor and appears to have been being used when the motor was pulled. I'll end up getting into that as I move along. I have a brand new water pump that I'd bought for the 144, but had not installed so today as I was tearing down the 200 I got the new pump, looks like it will mount up. I had done a alternator swap on the 144 with a voltage regulator, I was intending on using that same set up. I noticed the 200 has a bigger and much better looking fan. I saw that it sticks more forward. I might combat that with an electric fan, I don't know though just a thought. I really do appreciate all the advice.

Lots of people on here are using the Electric Fans in place of the Mechanical one's and it's also a very good solution in solving much of the front space problems when using the newer and longer 200's & 250 Six's in the Earlier Year Models. Using all the of the Front Dress parts off of your 144 and that new Water Pump and it also helps that you already have an Alternator installed. It all all is a big help because than both of the engines will end up being the exact same Length. You will also be better off using the early Crankshaft Damper to get all the Pulleys to line up correctly with all those 144 Front Dress parts too.

Since you have a DuraSpark II Distributor but none of the Factory wiring for it, than the cheaper and next easiest way to go is using one of the GM HEI Module's to use in place of the Ford DS II control Box (see info below).


Go To Go Fast Site here is the link. https://www.gofastforless.com/
Then up on the Top Left Side Select and click on the Ignition Tab. Next select and Click on the Better Ignition Tab. Down toward the bottom is a question. Can I hook a TFI to a Duraspark II (magnetic pickup) distributor? In that Paragraph you will find all the info needed to Wire One up correctly and what parts you can use. Though it doesn't mention it in that link for using the HEI but you can also use a newer Ford TFI Coil with this Mod. Good luck

 

[mark***71852]

You'll LOVE a 200 - I swapped a very tired 170 for a 200 years ago and loved it! Because of the 200's much more torque, I swapped from the 13" wheels and tires to some 14" wheels with the tallest tires I could fit in the rear wheel wells, and now it's much calmer driving at 70mph.

IIRC, the 144 waterpump and all pulleys, etc on the front of the engine should swap over to the 200 no problem. The oil pan and pump pickup tube may well swap over as well, I'm not sure. Pretty sure the 144 oil pump itself won't mate up to a later distributor because of a smaller pump drive on the 144.

One thing that'll come up is the transmission crossmember / mount - I found that the aftermarket one made for automatics also works find for a manual, at least using the later "3.03" toploader 3-speed.

Do a search on my username, I posted a ton of stuff when I did the swap (that was like 10 years ago, not sure they're still around).

Good luck, and ask away!

Man thanks ill guarantee I'll have more questions before it's all said and done.

 

[78_200_C4]

You won't have any fan to radiator clearance problems if you use the170 water pump, water pump pulley, damper and fan without a spacer.
The 1/4" drive oil pump is shorter than the 65+ oil pump. This means you may need an oil pickup for a taller 65 5/16" drive oil pump to get the oil pan installed. The dip stick tube can't be knocked out from the bottom. Put a bolt in it then work it back and forth with a set of vise grips. The dip stick tube is the same thing as 3/8" steel fuel line. The rear dip stick hole can be plugged with a soft plug.
The 78 200 will have a larger 2" outlet exhaust manifold.
The 78 200 uses a cable throttle linkage.

 

[mark***71852]

You won't have any fan to radiator clearance problems if you use the170 water pump, water pump pulley, damper and fan without a spacer.
The 1/4" drive oil pump is shorter than the 65+ oil pump. This means you may need an oil pickup for a taller 65 5/16" drive oil pump to get the oil pan installed. The dip stick tube can't be knocked out from the bottom. Put a bolt in it then work it back and forth with a set of vise grips. The dip stick tube is the same thing as 3/8" steel fuel line. The rear dip stick hole can be plugged with a soft plug.
The 78 200 will have a larger 2" outlet exhaust manifold.
The 78 200 uses a cable throttle linkage.

Thanks, I appreciate it, I'm telling ya every little tidbit of information helps me tremendously. I can't thank yall enough.

 

[mark***71852]

I removed the exhaust manifold, one of my intentions is the replace gaskets and really clean all the nooks and cranny. The middle two ports look like they have been melted! Is this common? Have any of you ran into it before?

 

[mark***71852]

here's a picture of the block side, I don't see any apparent damage. Secondly I'm planning on removing the expansion plugs with arrows, and going back with factory style freeze plugs, but before I assume that's ok, is there some reason that maybe I'm unaware of that the rubber type plugs are used? I've never used them on any engine, but then again I don't want to remove and replace just to find out that it's some random work around that I wasn't aware of. I can't imagine that, but wilder things have happened.

 

[TrickSix]

Yes, that exhaust manifold damage is common. The passage for the choke warm air tube passes through there, so it can lead to an external exhaust gas leak. There are repair techniques, but I'd replace that manifold.

 

[mark***71852]

Thanks, replacement was my first thought as well. I appreciate the information.

 

[TrickSix]

Earlier manifolds, like on the 144, had a 1-3/4" outlet and exhaust pipes. Later 200s had a 2" outlet and pipes. Depending on what you intend to do for your exhaust system, you will want to pay attention to that detail.

 

[mark***71852]

Got ya. The hope is that eventually this will be my daily, albeit I don't think that's going to happen for a good long while, I'm restoring it on weekends and when I'm not at work, little by little. I use the word "restoring" very loosely, originality takes a backseat to dependability and drivability. So on a deal like the manifold I wouldn't be opposed to picking up a header and going with it.

 

[mark***71852]

Earlier manifolds, like on the 144, had a 1-3/4" outlet and exhaust pipes. Later 200s had a 2" outlet and pipes. Depending on what you intend to do for your exhaust system, you will want to pay attention to that detail.

I had planned to dual out through a thrush turbo, primarily because I have a few thrush turbos on the shelf in my shop.

 

[bubba22349]

Secondly I'm planning on removing the expansion plugs with arrows, and going back with factory style freeze plugs, but before I assume that's ok, is there some reason that maybe I'm unaware of that the rubber type plugs are used? I've never used them on any engine, but then again I don't want to remove and replace just to find out that it's some random work around that I wasn't aware of. I can't imagine that, but wilder things have happened.

Those type Rubber Freeze Plugs are commonly used to repair a leaking Factory Freeze Plug with the engine still in the Car those ones in the head are especially hard to get to. It would be very wise for you to replace those now will a good quality replacement as well as all the others while the engine is out. X2 As site member "78_200_C4" suggested if you want to use a Cast Exhaust Manifold than the Late style with the 2 Inch outlet is an excellent upgrade and will work great with your Thrust Turbo Muffler. Good Luck Edited

 

[mark***71852]

Those type Rubber Freeze Plugs are commonly used to repair a leaking Factory Freeze Plug with the engine still in the Car those ones in the head are especially hard to get to. It would be very wise for you to replace those now will a good quality replacement as well as all the others while the engine is out. Good Luck

Absolutely, gonna replace them all

 

[mark***71852]

Let me not get ahead of myself though, I have a tendency to do that. Will the intake manifoldfrom. The 144 bolt directly to the 200? With the difference being the outlet diameter being smaller? If so would this cause any issues with just dairy drivability? If not I'll pull it off and inspect it, and save some money by just using it. Anyway to wave money I'm all for. Again yall excuse my ignorance of this platform of engine.