All Small Six Stalling Issues 1983 200ci Mercury Marquis

[marquis83]

Recently my car has developed an intermittent stalling issue.

It will crank and start fine, but randomly it will shut off.

When this happens the car will crank till the battery dies but it won't even try to start.

If left overnight I can hop in the car, crank it again and it starts right up.

So far I've tried changing the fuel filter. Same issues.

I put on a new fuel pump about a year ago so I don't think my problem is fuel related.

I have a coil and new plugs on the way.

This car is all stock under the hood but I'm thinking about deleting the air pump because the cat clogged and had to be cut off a while ago.

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[bubba22349]

To me this sounds more like the Carbs flooding since the car will start easy again on the next morning after setting overnight. I would first check the Float level setting to see if it's maybe a little to high from the stock spec and if it is then when the engine is warmed up good this higher Fuel level would then become more of a problem, usually is better if it was set a little bit lower. I would also check the Carbs Float to see if its heavy from absorbing fuel then they will sink and cause flooding, also look at the condition of the needle and seat to see if its still good. You could also confirm the flooding issue by pulling out the spark plugs and looking at them right after the next time it happens. Good luck

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, If you get a strong smell of gas it could be flooding. It looks like the choke is closed in the picture. When warmed up the choke should be held open by spring pressure. Sometimes I will hold the choke open with a screwdriver or something that will not fall down into the carb. Get a $10 inline spark tester and check for spark when it dies. Good luck

 

[John Ha]

I'm thinking that your electronic ignition is going bad. I had a similar issue with one of my cars in the past. The module gets hot after running and something inside opens and shuts the car off. After it cooled for 15-30 minutes it would start and run again. It didn't always happen - sometimes the car ran fine and didn't shut off - but the issue went away entirely when I replaced the module.

 

[Frank]

I'm thinking that your electronic ignition is going bad. I had a similar issue with one of my cars in the past. The module gets hot after running and something inside opens and shuts the car off. After it cooled for 15-30 minutes it would start and run again. It didn't always happen - sometimes the car ran fine and didn't shut off - but the issue went away entirely when I replaced the module.

marquis83- I agree with Mr. Ha's assessment. If you have a timing light, keep it handy. Next time the engine quits and won't start, put the timing light pickup on the coil wire from coil to dist, and crank it over. Spark: it's a fuel issue. No spark: ignition. I will wager ignition.

 

[marquis83]

Hi, If you get a strong smell of gas it could be flooding. It looks like the choke is closed in the picture. When warmed up the choke should be held open by spring pressure. Sometimes I will hold the choke open with a screwdriver or something that will not fall down into the carb. Get a $10 inline spark tester and check for spark when it dies. Good luck

The pic is from when I first installed the carb (holley 1946) about a year ago. I don't remember smelling fuel, but I was a little pre-occupied trying to push the car out of traffic so I may have missed that.

 

[marquis83]

Got the car over to my garage today, here's a better pic of under the hood.

marquis83- I agree with Mr. Ha's assessment. If you have a timing light, keep it handy. Next time the engine quits and won't start, put the timing light pickup on the coil wire from coil to dist, and crank it over. Spark: it's a fuel issue. No spark: ignition. I will wager ignition.

This is a good idea. It would be a lot easier to check spark on the side of the road like that.

I haven't had to spend a ton on this car so I may just go ahead and order a spare module.

I see the Motorcraft box for this year available for about $50 online.

My local parts store has it for $60 but its just the carquest brand.

 

[Frank]

The pic is from when I first installed the carb (holley 1946) about a year ago. I don't remember smelling fuel, but I was a little pre-occupied trying to push the car out of traffic so I may have missed that.

(EDIT-when I posted this, I did not see your last post.)
The carb and other components are nearly new, and never had problems. If the car was so flooded it would not start, you would smell gas for sure. If I read your symptoms correctly, it's running fine then- poof, it's off like turning off the key. If this is correct, I strongly recommend, don't touch the carb, don't worry about the air pump- you can remove it later, it's not causing your issue- . It's most likely the ignition module.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...-1983-mercury-marquis?q=ignition+module&pos=1

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/motorcraft/motorcraft-6-terminal-ignition-control-module/mot0/dy893/v/a/5787/automotive-car-1983-mercury-marquis?q=ignition+module&pos=2

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, don't just buy parts. You need to diagnose the problem. Start it up and make sure the choke opens when the engine is warm.
Make sure your work area is ventilated so you don't have carbon monoxide poisoning!
A little spark tester is a better investment than parts that you do not need!
Good luck

 

[marquis83]

Hi, don't just buy parts. You need to diagnose the problem. Start it up and make sure the choke opens when the engine is warm.
Make sure your work area is ventilated so you don't have carbon monoxide poisoning!
A little spark tester is a better investment than parts that you do not need!
Good luck

Too late! I really need this car to run right as it's my daily driver, so I'm willing to drop a bit of cash on it.
I can verify the choke operates and fully opens.
Here's some pics of the inside of the old duraspark box, has what looks like sand inside it?
Not sure if that is some sort of old enronium material or if that's just years of sediment intrusion.

 

[bubba22349]

What Brand of ICB is it?

 

[Frank]

Too late! I really need this car to run right as it's my daily driver, so I'm willing to drop a bit of cash on it.
I can verify the choke operates and fully opens.
Here's some pics of the inside of the old duraspark box, has what looks like sand inside it?
Not sure if that is some sort of old enronium material or if that's just years of sediment intrusion.

Not much of an electronics guy, but that looks like a unit that's done it's time. Even though it's more costly, Motorcraft replacement module will be the safest long-term investment. Standard Motor used to make quality parts, but the last two components I got from them were low quality imported. .
When I debate the cost of critical components, and am tempted to go cheap, I ask: how much is that extra $70 for the quality part worth? One breakdown avoided makes it worth it! And over the span of years, that extra $ up front for the best parts comes out to be the less expensive alternative.

 

[drag-200stang]

Do not overlook a bad ignition switch. Yes, the modules go bad a lot.

 

[marquis83]

I finally got the new module in this morning. I also replaced the coil. The car made a 10 minute drive back home without stalling.

I've never changed the plugs on this car in the 2 years I've owned it, so I pulled a few. One and 2 were the worst by far.




All the plugs were a little oily, I assume that's because my engine is overfilled.I learned from a different thread on here that you need a special oil filter for a 5 quart change. I thought the oil leak up top was from the valve cover gasket.

I've got the chilton's manual for this car and they don't mention anything about the filter in there, they just say it's a 5 quart change.

 

[bubba22349]

Yeah those Spark Plugs were done a long time ago and not helping your MPG's. The Valve stem Seals are easy to change out with the head still on the block if you want to do that job it can done in 1/2 day with a minimum of tools. Standard oil filters should be the Motorcraft FL1 Wix 51515 or Napa 1515, with 4 1/2 Quarts of oil

 

[sixtseventwo4d]

Standard Motor used to make quality parts, but the last two components I got from them were low quality imported.

If you go to the online SMP eCatalog you can look up parts for your application, many times there are two different offerings for the same part. One is the premium STD line and the other T-Series, competitive priced line. The STD line usually carries a much better warranty

 

[Frank]

I finally got the new module in this morning. I also replaced the coil. The car made a 10 minute drive back home without stalling.

I've never changed the plugs on this car in the 2 years I've owned it, so I pulled a few. One and 2 were the worst by far.


View attachment 14568

All the plugs were a little oily, I assume that's because my engine is overfilled.I learned from a different thread on here that you need a special oil filter for a 5 quart change. I thought the oil leak up top was from the valve cover gasket.

I've got the chilton's manual for this car and they don't mention anything about the filter in there, they just say it's a 5 quart change.

Good morning. Glad things are moving forward! It's important to not overfill (any) engine with oil. Do the oil change/filter, add 4 quarts, start up and run for a minute. Cut off, wait a few minutes and gradually top off the oil to the full mark.

Verify that your PCV system is functioning correctly. Oil seeping from gaskets, and oily plugs indicate possible crankcase backpressure. Pull the PCV valve from the VC. Use spray carb cleaner or brake-clean to flush the valve out: start the engine and spray small shots of cleaner into the valve. The engine will try to stall, so propping it up to 1500 rpm or more will help this procedure. Spray a shot, then use your thumb to cover the base of the valve, this will force the plunger to seat. Repeat this until it's clean. Then check the small filter inside the air filter housing. Wash it with brake-clean, or replace it. . . You may simply replace the PCV valve, but replacement valves are not always correct for the application anymore. It will be better to clean the one you have IMO.

What brand of oil are you using? The labels say they're all the same- my experience says that's totally untrue. Do not use Quaker State or Pennzoil, period. The engine will stay perfectly clean inside with Valvoline oil. If it's gummy inside, Valvoline will gradually clean it up. My high mileage engines which have used only Valvoline, the internals looked new when torn down. 0% blackness or gum.

 

[bubba22349]

X2 that's very good advise from Frank! When I was in my last couple of years of High School and through Collage I worked part time for a large Taxis Company in the San Gabriel Valley (Calif.) they were very big proponents of the Justice Brothers Products. Those cars had very high miles on them and when ever they were opened up for a repair or rebuild they were very clean inside. So when I got an old car I was fixing up one of the first things I would do is use the J.B. Engine Flush to start cleaning up the inside usually within 2 to 3 Oil Changes they were very Clean I also use the Valvoline and detest the sludge I would find inside engines that had a steady diet of only Pennzoil or Quaker State oils. By the way with a stock type MotorCraft FL1 filter they only use 4 1/2 quarts of Oil. https://justicebrothers.com/products/automotive/engine-oil-products/oil-system-cleaner/

 

[marquis83]

Good morning. Glad things are moving forward! It's important to not overfill (any) engine with oil. Do the oil change/filter, add 4 quarts, start up and run for a minute. Cut off, wait a few minutes and gradually top off the oil to the full mark.

Verify that your PCV system is functioning correctly. Oil seeping from gaskets, and oily plugs indicate possible crankcase backpressure. Pull the PCV valve from the VC. Use spray carb cleaner or brake-clean to flush the valve out: start the engine and spray small shots of cleaner into the valve. The engine will try to stall, so propping it up to 1500 rpm or more will help this procedure. Spray a shot, then use your thumb to cover the base of the valve, this will force the plunger to seat. Repeat this until it's clean. Then check the small filter inside the air filter housing. Wash it with brake-clean, or replace it. . . You may simply replace the PCV valve, but replacement valves are not always correct for the application anymore. It will be better to clean the one you have IMO.

What brand of oil are you using? The labels say they're all the same- my experience says that's totally untrue. Do not use Quaker State or Pennzoil, period. The engine will stay perfectly clean inside with Valvoline oil. If it's gummy inside, Valvoline will gradually clean it up. My high mileage engines which have used only

 

[marquis83]

Ive only done the oil twice since I've owned the car.

I usually get valvoline, but it's been harder to find that in conventional lately.

I went all out, I changed all the plugs, wires, cap and rotor, the coil, and the ignition control module.

On the first test drive the car wouldn't start leaving the auto parts store. I walked home, came back 2 hours later and it started.

So i'm starting to think it is a flooding issue. It definitely smelled like gas under the hood.

If I was gonna put a 2 barrel on this car would that be worthwhile? I see a lot of hate for the holley 1946 in various places online.

We got more snow so the car has just been sitting since the last test drive. Too cold to be messing around with it.