All Small Six Performance Build plan for my 1965 Mustang

This relates to all small sixes
A

ABrescia

New member
Retirement has allowed me to start again on this great project here are the plans so far…
1965 mustang will be replacing the original engine with the following..

Head is D7BE 8090 AB. From 1977 Maverick ?
want to use the Offy 3 carburetor kit , mill the head .075”

Engine is C6DE 6015 P From 67 Falcon
deck height on the block milled to .000” goal is .040 quench
use flat head pistons. Not sure on the cam yet.

I would like to start With the head first. I see many Carter YF style carbs available for reasonable prices. Is this a standard setup for my purpose? They range from $69 to $129 in price.

Along with a new 5 speed transmission, this build is for a weekend street driver with higher performance engine. All advice welcome to fine tune the build.
 
ABrescia said:
Retirement has allowed me to start again on this great project here are the plans so far…
1965 mustang will be replacing the original engine with the following..

Head is D7BE 8090 AB. From 1977 Maverick ?
want to use the Offy 3 carburetor kit , mill the head .075”

Engine is C6DE 6015 P From 67 Falcon
deck height on the block milled to .000” goal is .040 quench
use flat head pistons. Not sure on the cam yet.

I would like to start With the head first. I see many Carter YF style carbs available for reasonable prices. Is this a standard setup for my purpose? They range from $69 to $129 in price.

Along with a new 5 speed transmission, this build is for a weekend street driver with higher performance engine. All advice welcome to fine tune the build.
Click to expand...
Hi ABrescia, If you are wanting to get to a .040 Quench Distance (this is great) on your 67 200 Short block? Than the Deck would need to be Milled down another .010 below the Zero Deck point so that the Pistons are now sticking up .010 above the deck, this will work fine. The current available FelPro Head Gaskets have a .050 Crush Distance, unless you happen to have an good original Ford Steel Shim (.022) or the Ford Composition Head Gaskets (.043) or the Victor Renze .044) all of these which are quite difficult to find now.

What grade of fuel are you planning to run? Using your above spec's of Milling the Head .075 (assuming that its never been milled before) and a Zero Deck Short Block with the Flat Top Pistons you will have a 10.02 to Static compression Ratio.

Yes the Carter YF Carbs would work very well for your Tri Power Log Head set up. Best of luck
 
bubba22349 said:
Hi ABrescia, If you are wanting to get to a .040 Quench Distance (this is great) on your 67 200 Short block? Than the Deck would need to be Milled down another .010 below the Zero Deck point so that the Pistons are now sticking up .010 above the deck, this will work fine. The current available FelPro Head Gaskets have a .050 Crush Distance, unless you happen to have an good original Ford Steel Shim (.022) or the Ford Composition Head Gaskets (.043) or the Victor Renze .044) all of these which are quite difficult to find now.

What grade of fuel are you planning to run? Using your above spec's of Milling the Head .075 (assuming that its never been milled before) and a Zero Deck Short Block with the Flat Top Pistons you will have a 10.02 to Static compression Ratio.

Yes the Carter YF Carbs would work very well for your Tri Power Log Head set up. Best of luck
Click to expand...
Hoping to use low octane gas here in Connecticut. Since the carb prices are high and low and reviews are hard to believe, I see these on Amazon as a decent choice. Was wondering if this type of setup on a 200 engine will require extra clearance for the hood ?
Carter YF carb
 
There have been several site member that have used those Carter YF Carb copies with good results lots of places offer them for sale, I don't know how many places overseas are making them. In a early Mustang the front Carb gets to be real close to the Hood see below link for an example of this, "Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VIIII The Tri-Carb Install. 12/26/2014". Its from one of our site members Echo - 1955 and shows the Tri Power install on his 1965 Mustang Fastback (by the way all of his 200 Six Videos are very well done). He was using the Ford Autolite 1100 Carbs for the two ends of the Tri Power and maybe all three of them. I don't know right now how much difference there is in their height compared to the Carter YF, so you will want to check that out. There are also the Carter RGB copies which should be a little shorter in height compared to the Carter YF. To use Low Octane Fuel like 87 than you will need to be at a Static C.R. of 9.2 or less. Milling the Head .055 with the Flat Top Pistons .010 above the block and a FelPro Head Gasket should give you a 9.25 CR about the Max for our 87 Fuel. The Camshaft specs are also needed to get the Dynamic Compression Ratio with in spec for the 87 Fuel. Good luck.

Site member Echo -1955 Rebuilds His 1965 Mustang 200 I6 Block. These are all of his post made here on this site.

200ci - Echo -1955 Rebuild's His 1965 Mustang 200 I6 Block.

Rebuild 65 200 I6 Block. I bought my 65 in 65. I brought it back to life in 98. I had to repaint it a couple months ago because my prized 100 lb Lab played catch me iffen ya can wid a 10 lb cat. Their playground was the top of my FB. Scratched the paint all the way down to metal. This is where...
fordsix.com fordsix.com

These are the Video Seriess that Echo - 1955 Made in his above post as well as some the last ones that weren't in that post.
Rebuild 200 Part I 1/04/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part II 2/20/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part III Find TDC 5/09/2011
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=rel ... bUeLAp6XaI

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part IV Degree cam 5/19/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part V 7/09/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VI 9/19/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VII 7/31/2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM0Puddl2as&feature=plcp

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VIII Roy had this Video almost ready to post it covered much more up to the engine brake in, it's lost for now due to a hard drive failure.

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VIIII The Tri-Carb Install. 12/26/2014
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srUZ8s8sAiE
 
ABrescia said:
Hoping to use low octane gas here in Connecticut. Since the carb prices are high and low and reviews are hard to believe, I see these on Amazon as a decent choice. Was wondering if this type of setup on a 200 engine will require extra clearance for the hood ?
Carter YF carb
Click to expand...
Why don't you use dished pistons. Doing this mill the head .055-065" That will give you close to 9-1 compression.
 
bubba22349 said:
There have been several site member that have used those Carter YF Carb copies with good results lots of places offer them for sale, I don't know how many places overseas are making them. In a early Mustang the front Carb gets to be real close to the Hood see below link for an example of this, "Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VIIII The Tri-Carb Install. 12/26/2014". Its from one of our site members Echo - 1955 and shows the Tri Power install on his 1965 Mustang Fastback (by the way all of his 200 Six Videos are very well done). He was using the Ford Autolite 1100 Carbs for the two ends of the Tri Power and maybe all three of them. I don't know right now how much difference there is in their height compared to the Carter YF, so you will want to check that out. There are also the Carter RGB copies which should be a little shorter in height compared to the Carter YF. To use Low Octane Fuel like 87 than you will need to be at a Static C.R. of 9.2 or less. Milling the Head .055 with the Flat Top Pistons .010 above the block and a FelPro Head Gasket should give you a 9.25 CR about the Max for our 87 Fuel. The Camshaft specs are also needed to get the Dynamic Compression Ratio with in spec for the 87 Fuel. Good luck.

Site member Echo -1955 Rebuilds His 1965 Mustang 200 I6 Block. These are all of his post made here on this site.

200ci - Echo -1955 Rebuild's His 1965 Mustang 200 I6 Block.

Rebuild 65 200 I6 Block. I bought my 65 in 65. I brought it back to life in 98. I had to repaint it a couple months ago because my prized 100 lb Lab played catch me iffen ya can wid a 10 lb cat. Their playground was the top of my FB. Scratched the paint all the way down to metal. This is where...
fordsix.com fordsix.com

These are the Video Seriess that Echo - 1955 Made in his above post as well as some the last ones that weren't in that post.
Rebuild 200 Part I 1/04/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part II 2/20/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part III Find TDC 5/09/2011
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=rel ... bUeLAp6XaI

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part IV Degree cam 5/19/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part V 7/09/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VI 9/19/2011

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VII 7/31/2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM0Puddl2as&feature=plcp

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VIII Roy had this Video almost ready to post it covered much more up to the engine brake in, it's lost for now due to a hard drive failure.

Mustang 200 Rebuild Part VIIII The Tri-Carb Install. 12/26/2014
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srUZ8s8sAiE
Click to expand...
Thinking about the CR and I have not spec the cam, low octane fuel is not a must . i guess the build should drive the type of fuel. Thanks for listing the videos. Also, I have never seen a hex shaped log compared to a flat one. Here is a photo of the head I’m using. Looks flat to me !?
 

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The quench distance of .040 is important! To get the compression down with the flat top piston it must be dished BUT the shape of the dish is important. If the compressed gasket is 0.050 then the piston must be above the deck 0.010 to maintain the 0.040 quench. This will give you a higher compression ratio than you may want. Make sure you cc the combustion chamber. I think I have the same head and just posted pictures in another thread. It appears my head has been surfaced by the previous owner and the flat part of the combustion chamber is even with the head surface. This is great for the quench area. The head cc'd to 59.4 cc's. I am going to order special forged pistons with a pin compression height and dish if needed with the size I specify to get the compression I want. This must match the cam to get the Dynamic compression ratio (DCR) correct.

I think you must first decide on the rpm you want the cam to work in and pick a cam that provides this. This will determine the intake valve closing point and thus the DCR. Then you will know the SCR required and the dimensions of the piston.
Lets talk dish. You do not want a piston with a circular dish; but a piston with a "D" shape so the dish is not under the flat part of the cylinder head. The dish under the flat part will decrease the quench area. I am going through this task right now. I am going to call Felpro and see if they can give me the compressed thickness of their gasket which I have on order and anticipate a delivery on late July if I am lucky (from Summit). I called Schneider for a cam and they have no blanks so I am sending mine to have reground. I am looking at there 256H or 131H have not decided yet. I am building a street engine so they can regrind to one of those.

My point is you must have a plan, all the questions answered before you purchase any parts. I know that I will not be able to find an off the self piston to provide what I want so I will be ordering special forged pistons. They will be expensive! This is our hobby and I don't have a boat or play golf! Make sure you degree the cam ; and check for piston to valve clearance but that is another discussion. You may get away with eyebrows for the valves and not require the dish.
 
The SB6 does not have piston to valve issues even with pop up pistons. The valve to piston clearance must be checked after degreeing the cam. It is good engine building practice.
 
Some good Points and Build Plan in your above post "alwill923" and yes since .041 was the Quench Distance for the stock 1963 1/2 to 1968 Ford 200 engines, so then .040 is also good for a mild buildup. That said as "drag-200stang" just stated above and so many people fail to realize that Valve to Piston interference is not an issue with these Ford Small Sixes. So why limit yourself when doing a Max Effort Normally Asperated (N. A.) Street Performance Small Six build up when you could even go with a much tighter Quench distance of .035 or .030 and for this spec less is always better and help's to make the engine more Detonation Resistant, with only just a little bit more careful short block Machining & Assembly. For a 170 or 200 six a 9.2 C.R. (at Sea Level) works out very good and is about the Safe Max for using todays 87 Fuel, higher elevations can also let you go with a little more C.R. Either a Flat Top, Dished or a Custom D shaped making it a little tighter Quench (is also an excellent Idea), and even a small Domed Piston could be used. That is when using most any of the 1969 up Large Log Heads because they also have so a much larger Combustion Chambers at 62 CC on average, than what the early Logs did. But the exceptional limit might be the that more rare 1969 170 six M Casting, always check your CC's out first. And these Large Log Heads would only require a little difference in the final amount that you Mill them to fine tune your C. R. The Best technique is to First finalize the Quench distance you want (from .030 to .050 or more tighter if you are adventurous) when choosing your Piston type for your short block assembly. Finalize your Camshaft Specs to also work in range of Dynamic C.R. you need for the build and then at the very last Mill the head to get to your desired Static Compression ratio (C.R.).
 
First set of calculations
Head D7BE 62cc chamber vol. milled .060 reduces it by 12cc = 50cc vol
block milled to -.010 with .055 gasket thickness
pistons are Silvolite has Hypereutetic pistons, #3327H
Stroke and bore are stock
using the summit cr calculator give cr over 10 ?! not sure if this is correct. See attached imaged.
 

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ABrescia said:
First set of calculations
Head D7BE 62cc chamber vol. milled .060 reduces it by 12cc = 50cc vol
block milled to -.010 with .055 gasket thickness
pistons are Silvolite has Hypereutetic pistons, #3327H
Stroke and bore are stock
using the summit cr calculator give cr over 10 ?! not sure if this is correct. See attached imaged.
Click to expand...
10.4 is correct if the piston is extending above the block deck .010" at TDC and the chamber volume is 50cc.

However, milling the head .060" does not reduce the chamber volume by 12cc.
A piston displacement of .060" is only 10.4cc and since the chamber has less area than the piston bore, milling the head .060" must yield a volume change less than 10.4cc.
 
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pmuller9 said:
10.4 is correct if the piston is extending above the block deck .010" at TDC and the chamber volume is 50cc.

However, milling the head .060" does not reduce the chamber volume by 12cc
Click to expand...
I read that for each .010 of milling, a reduction of 2cc would occur. If the head I am using has a chamber vol. of 62cc, then milling it by .060 would reduce the chamber vol by 12cc. Yes?
 
ABrescia said:
I read that for each .010 of milling, a reduction of 2cc would occur. If the head I am using has a chamber vol. of 62cc, then milling it by .060 would reduce the chamber vol by 12cc. Yes?
Click to expand...
No. Do the math.
A piston displacement of .060" is only 10.4cc and since the chamber has less area than the piston bore, milling the head .060" must yield a volume change less than 10.4cc.

For comparison, my 300 six head has a 76cc chamber volume with a 4.00" cylinder bore.
It required a .007" cut for 1cc change in volume.
A .060" cut would only have resulted in an 8.5cc change in volume.

Limit the static compression ratio to 9.5
 
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When you say the block was milled to -.010 does that mean that with the rods and piston installed that the piston is .010 down from the deck or that the block was milled .010. Keep in mind that a stock assembly, deck measures about - .026 and the AU pistons are about+ .020 taller... Just wondering what is what.
I trust no one, even myself and always verify as I go.
 
drag-200stang said:
When you say the block was milled to -.010 does that mean that with the rods and piston installed that the piston is .010 down from the deck or that the block was milled .010. Keep in mind that a stock assembly, deck measures about - .026 and the AU pistons are about+ .020 taller... Just wondering what is what.
I trust no one, even myself and always verify as I go.
Click to expand...
Yes, I mean that the deck height after milling would be -.010 or .010 down from the deck. With a .055 gasket the deck clearance would be .045. Also, did not notice that the pistons are .020 taller.
 
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ABrescia said:
Hoping to use low octane gas here in Connecticut. Since the carb prices are high and low and reviews are hard to believe, I see these on Amazon as a decent choice. Was wondering if this type of setup on a 200 engine will require extra clearance for the hood ?
Carter YF carb
Click to expand...
ABrescia, a word on the China clone carbs- They can be hit-or-miss. If you have experience working on carbs, it will be helpful. The Carter YF I bought (same as the ad above), I opened the bowl and replaced the plastic China parts with metal parts from my worn out factory YF. The set up that was in it out-of-box was flimsy and the metering rod was not set correctly. Others from the "big block" side of the forum found that their carbs were also running rich from improper power valves on the 2V models. My YF also had the vacuum advance port in the airhorn machined too high, resulting in no advance on light throttle, requiring some creative modification for it to perform correctly.
The bottom line is, get the inexpensive carbs, but be prepared that they may not perform correctly out of the box. Using multiple carbs, you may need a jet change anyway. The trusted source for internal carb parts and jets is Mike's Carburetors. https://www.carburetor-parts.com/
 
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