I know this has probably been asked before. The 1965 200 CI 6 cyl is listed at 120 hp. I am thinking about replacing it with a 1979 200 CI,,,,,,but it is listed as having only 89 hp. Is this true, or are they using a different way to calculate the horsepower? Figured they would at least be the same. If they are, will the 1979 200 CI motor fit into, and hook up without any complications, the same as the 1965 engine I am removing, which is in a 1965 Mustang? THANK YOU!
200ci I know this has probably been asked before. The 1966 200 CI 6 cyl is listed at 120 hp. I am thinking about replacing it with a 1979 200 CI,,,,,,but
- Thread starter myrod1937
- Start date
This applies only to 200ci
Yes X2 there is a big differance in the way the newer engines HP rating is measured compared to how the early engines were. All the early engines were measured with an open header exhaust no mufflers or any other exhaust system parts, no water pump, no fan, no generator or alternator, or any of the other accessories, and also no air cleaner, etc. IE if it used power to turn it or have it on the engine it wasn't used on the test engines they are an SAE Gross HP rating at the flywheel. These HP rating's were often used in the car / truck advertising to boost the sales, but in some cases on Hi Performance engines of the late 1960's the manufactures were fudging the HP numbers stating them much lower than they accually were for an advantage in the different racing classes. The dividing line between the ratings of the early and later model engines and how their HP output was measured was changed for the 1972 model year and there after. This is when the government got involved and wanted the engines measured with all their accessory equipment installed, with the fan, the water pump, the air cleaner, plus all the newer emissions equipment, and plus a full exhaust system with mufflers and a few years after that with the required Catalytic Convertors too just as they were going to be installed in the car for a SAE Net HP rating.
Yes the 1979 200 six has some great advantages such as the much better flowing head mentioned above by wsa111, that 1979 long block will also bolt right into the 1965 Mustang in place of the original 200 with a some minor parts changes. Note that a 1965 200 six only has a single bell housing bolt pattern (this was the last year for that) all the newer 200 six blocks from 1966 up to 1981 and many of the 1982's (all the Blocks with a High Mount Starter) will have the duel bolt patterns for the bell housings giving you the option of using the better larger manual Trans bell housing, along with its matching larger 136 Tooth Flat Flywheel, and the bigger 9 inch Clutch Assembly. This also opens up many other Transmission options such as using the better all sincro's 3.03 transmissions as well as others such as a top loader 4 speed or a T5 with a smile adapter plate to name a few.
Yes the 1979 200 six has some great advantages such as the much better flowing head mentioned above by wsa111, that 1979 long block will also bolt right into the 1965 Mustang in place of the original 200 with a some minor parts changes. Note that a 1965 200 six only has a single bell housing bolt pattern (this was the last year for that) all the newer 200 six blocks from 1966 up to 1981 and many of the 1982's (all the Blocks with a High Mount Starter) will have the duel bolt patterns for the bell housings giving you the option of using the better larger manual Trans bell housing, along with its matching larger 136 Tooth Flat Flywheel, and the bigger 9 inch Clutch Assembly. This also opens up many other Transmission options such as using the better all sincro's 3.03 transmissions as well as others such as a top loader 4 speed or a T5 with a smile adapter plate to name a few.
Dragonlich1961
Well-known member
Make sure the 79 block has the correct start location. Around that time ford made a (big bell) 200. Just make sure the starter is in the same location yours is now.
Hi, some of the issues you should look at besides high mount or low mount starters are the oil pan and oil pump pick up are probably different, the Duraspark ignition is better, the later engines have a larger carb opening so the original carb is not a direct bolt on, and the later blocks do not have a provision for the Z bar if you run a stick shift tranny. These things can all be figured out. Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook and come up with a plan for your Mustang. Good luck
fast64ranchero
Well-known member
The later engines also retarder the cam timing for smog. if you go into the engine put an early timing chain in it.
Always check your blocks Casting / Design Numbers so you know what your working with, there were no Ford 200 Six Big Bell Housing Low Mount Starter Blocks made in 1979, 1980, or before late 1981, those blocks are quite rare using 2/3 of the SBF bell housing pattern. These special 1 to 2 year only 200 six blocks were made to fit together with the new for 1982 C5 Automatic Transmissions with their Lock Up Torque Convertors, when production of the C4 Transmissions was ended at end of the 1981 Model year. To further confuse the subject the regular 200 Six high mount starter engines were also still used in 1982 & 1983 for the Manual Transmissions cars. The majority of the 1978 & 1979 up 200 Six high mount starter 200 blocks were all installed in the newer Fox Chassis cars like the Ford Fairmont's / or it's Mercury Version the Zephyrs, and 1979 to 1982 Ford Mustangs & Mercury Capris so yes X2 as B Ron Co posted above the Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, plus the 1965 Oil Dip Stick and its matching Block Tube and the Motor Mounts all these parts from your 1965 200 Six Short Block need to be installed on your new 1979 Engine for it to be able to fit & bolt right into your 1965 Mustang chassis. X2 on using the DuraSpark II ignition system if that's on your replacement engine use it also use the later carb too these parts are all much better than the original 1965 engine parts.
X2 and while the oil pan is off is a good time to check out the timing chain & gears set and as fast64ranchero recommended above going with the early timing chain set like was on your 1965 block (or even a Duel Roller timing set from V. I.) will also give you some additional power too. Also note that many of those later engine blocks used the Cable Clutch pedal system and one very desirable bell housings has an E1 casting number is for a T4 Trans this lets you bolt up a T5 without needing an adapter plate, there are some kits such as the one by Mustang Steve (mustangsteve.com) that can be used to adapt their cable clutch pedal system into the earlier Ford cars like your Mustang too. Best of luck
I asked for the blocks Casting / Design Numbers, but he didn't send them. Included: Just Engine, bell,flywheel, starter, he said starter is mounted in the low position. It is out of a 79 Mustang. Not sure if carb is with it or not, gonna check on that as well. Also asked for pic of the other side of the engine, and the back of the bell, showing the holes where the trans bolts up.
I live a little over 3hr away from where the engine is located.
I live a little over 3hr away from where the engine is located.
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OK,,,,,,,,,,,,he wrote me back and said he made a mistake, the starter is mounted in the higher position (What now, my old stater motor was in the lower position)?
That's the best picture I can get of the other side of the engine because it is on a wooden stand under a workbench and I can't pull it out by myself and it is the high mount starter
That's the best picture I can get of the other side of the engine because it is on a wooden stand under a workbench and I can't pull it out by myself and it is the high mount starter
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Great to simplify this somewhat please note that all the 1960 to 1981 Ford / Mercury 144, 170, & 200 small Six engines are going to have the high mount starters some are a 3 bolt mounting and some are a 2 bolt depends on the Trans that's used. The one exception to this is the 1982 & 1983 200 big bell blocks (that are 2/3 of the SBF V8 a 6 bolt pattern bell housing) these were only made for use with the new for 1982 C5 Automatic Transmissions / with a Lock Up Torque Convertor these along with all 250 Six and the 240, 300, 4.9 Big Block Six's all use the low mount starters that were mentioned above.
That 1979 200 engine will be a good engine and looks to be complete and it will fit right into your 1965 Mustang fairly easy it's the duel bolt pattern bell housing short block the same as the other 1966 to 1981 200 Six high mount starter short blocks. Since it came out of a 1979 Fox chassis Mustang it has the wrong shape Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pickup Tube, so you will need to use those two parts from your 1965 200 short block. Once you have the correct 1965 Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube off your old engine swapped onto the new 1979 200 block, next you also need to remove the 1979 engine block mounts and swap on your original 1965 Mustang engine block mounts at that point the engine should be able to bolt right into the 1965 Mustang Chassis.
Next you need to decide if you want to use the that larger 3.03 bell housing, flat flywheel, plus it's the 9 inch clutch assembly this is an excellent up grade if you want to use it since it's already on the short block. If you do you will need to find a 3.03 top loader type 3 speed Trans, a 4 top loader speed or even a T5 5.0 Trans if you use a adapter plate that would be a very good combo. If you don't really want to go into that swap then you can remove all those parts and use your complete 1965 2.77 bell housing, it's smaller stepped 132 Tooth Flywheel and 2.77 Trans assembly. Most of the other parts can be used with a little bit of work and will also be a great upgrade for your Mustang or you can swap those parts out for the 1965 parts too. Be sure to save those extra parts there are probably some site members that you can sell or trade them too. I see that it also has the DuraSpark II Distributor and a nice Clutch Fan Assembly too these are also great up grades too. Does the engine come with the manual transmission, carb and Air Cleaner too? Best of luck and Happy New Year!
That 1979 200 engine will be a good engine and looks to be complete and it will fit right into your 1965 Mustang fairly easy it's the duel bolt pattern bell housing short block the same as the other 1966 to 1981 200 Six high mount starter short blocks. Since it came out of a 1979 Fox chassis Mustang it has the wrong shape Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pickup Tube, so you will need to use those two parts from your 1965 200 short block. Once you have the correct 1965 Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube off your old engine swapped onto the new 1979 200 block, next you also need to remove the 1979 engine block mounts and swap on your original 1965 Mustang engine block mounts at that point the engine should be able to bolt right into the 1965 Mustang Chassis.
Next you need to decide if you want to use the that larger 3.03 bell housing, flat flywheel, plus it's the 9 inch clutch assembly this is an excellent up grade if you want to use it since it's already on the short block. If you do you will need to find a 3.03 top loader type 3 speed Trans, a 4 top loader speed or even a T5 5.0 Trans if you use a adapter plate that would be a very good combo. If you don't really want to go into that swap then you can remove all those parts and use your complete 1965 2.77 bell housing, it's smaller stepped 132 Tooth Flywheel and 2.77 Trans assembly. Most of the other parts can be used with a little bit of work and will also be a great upgrade for your Mustang or you can swap those parts out for the 1965 parts too. Be sure to save those extra parts there are probably some site members that you can sell or trade them too. I see that it also has the DuraSpark II Distributor and a nice Clutch Fan Assembly too these are also great up grades too. Does the engine come with the manual transmission, carb and Air Cleaner too? Best of luck and Happy New Year!
As long as its got D8 or E1 on the passenger side, and this little hole here, drivers side front, where the dip stick goes, you should be good
On my RAV4's 1967 200 cube Australian block, its like this. You will probably have to punch out the plug and add a dip stick tube if your donar engine is from a Fox body or an Early Bronco
![ATTACH]](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5BATTACH+type%3D%2522full%2522%5D9599%5B%2FATTACH%5D&hash=0b00d306c3a2238af6e338b7ab46a5f2)
On my RAV4's 1967 200 cube Australian block, its like this. You will probably have to punch out the plug and add a dip stick tube if your donar engine is from a Fox body or an Early Bronco
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X2 Yes certainly the larger 136 Tooth Flat Flywheel, with it's matching 9 inch clutch assembly, with the larger bell housing and a 3.03 top loader that's an all synchro 3 speed are great improvements over the early 2.77 trans setup and make the car much more fun to drive in today's traffic.
Also Note that the Fox chassis 200 Six's with a manual Trans used a cable for the clutch operation, there are kits to adapt that to the early cars. Mustang Steve makes one of the very best ones. Good luck on your swap
Also Note that the Fox chassis 200 Six's with a manual Trans used a cable for the clutch operation, there are kits to adapt that to the early cars. Mustang Steve makes one of the very best ones. Good luck on your swap
Thank you Bubba, the Mustang I have was an early '65, with the 170 engine, WILL the oil pan and oil pickup still fit on this '79 200? Would you happen to have the part number for that larger bell, so I can hunt for it? As Xtcasy noted above, that dip stick tube, and oil pickup hole should already be there on the 1979 engine I'm going to look at, right. Thanks
Yes your 1964 1/2 to 1965 170 Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube should be exactly the same as a 200 six. To my knowledge all of the small six car Oil Pans (Ford used for the 144, 170, & 200's) from 1960 to 1977 were the same except of corse for those used on the early small six Bronco 4 X 4 engines. Isn't the bell housing included with your 1979 200 engine? If not am sure I have the bell housing numbers that you can look for.
Yes, the Bell is included, I was just wondering "Which Bell" it was, if you can tell by the pic. I was wondering if it IS the one you were talking about above (the 3.03)? Or, am I getting confused on that? I can also see the oil tube and stick in the first pic I sent, and the little hole near it is for oil Pressure, which is on the drivers side (I was getting confused by what "xctasy" was saying above).?
Do you think $200.00 is a good price for what I am getting?
Its a D9BC-6392-CA SROD 4 speed bellhousing.
Good base for a T5 conversion if your car is a 3 or 4 speed manual.
"https://fordsix.com/threads/srod-bellhousing-d9bc-6392-ca.68761/"
All the old links to Darrel and RacinNdrummin's SROD machine.
"https://fordsix.com/threads/help-needed-t-5z-case-identification.76175/"
For conversion to cable operated clutch, Mike C had Blue 63 Falcon Futura that had a commonly available conversion.
"http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74883&d=1410104566"
Good base for a T5 conversion if your car is a 3 or 4 speed manual.
"https://fordsix.com/threads/srod-bellhousing-d9bc-6392-ca.68761/"
All the old links to Darrel and RacinNdrummin's SROD machine.
"https://fordsix.com/threads/help-needed-t-5z-case-identification.76175/"
For conversion to cable operated clutch, Mike C had Blue 63 Falcon Futura that had a commonly available conversion.
"http://vb.foureyedpride.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74883&d=1410104566"
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According to Stormin'Norman, don't use the common 3.03" trans stock 136 teeth. 9.25" clutch. Thats because the manual 1978-1981 3.3 liter Fox can only take a 9" clutch,
Aftermarket clutches for the 1966-1977 Bronco 170/200 , 1969.5-1973, 1969.5 to 1978 Maverick 170/200 3.03 trans.and Early Bronco guys have an off the shelf 9.25" clutch for the 3.03 layshaft center Toploder trans.
tomsoffroad.com
But it won't fit inside a D9BC-6392 CA or E1ZR-6394-AA bellhousing
See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...I6-Clutch-Won-t-Disengage-Missing-Information
Aftermarket clutches for the 1966-1977 Bronco 170/200 , 1969.5-1973, 1969.5 to 1978 Maverick 170/200 3.03 trans.and Early Bronco guys have an off the shelf 9.25" clutch for the 3.03 layshaft center Toploder trans.
6 Cylinder Clutch Kit, 9 inch Diaphragm, 66-77 Ford Bronco
Brand New Clutch Kit for 66-77 Classic Ford Broncos with 170ci or 200ci Inline 6 Cylinder Engines. Includes Clutch Plate, Pressure Plate, Throwout Bearing
But it won't fit inside a D9BC-6392 CA or E1ZR-6394-AA bellhousing
See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...I6-Clutch-Won-t-Disengage-Missing-Information
Thanks for the info. The car was an automatic, but I have a toploader 3 speed and clutch pedal that came with the car, as well as the auto trans and 170 six cyl. The guy I got it from was going to convert it to a manual, but those are the only things I presently have to convert it. I also have a C-4 automatic laying around (Would the bell on that bolt up to the 79 200 motor?). As you mentioned, I guess a T-5 would also bolt up, without adapter? If I stayed with automatic trans, what would you consider the best type to get, if not the C-4? Oh, I checked out your pics, nice car.
If it was born automatic, keep it automatic. I'm a total manual, stick-shift guy. What works for you, choose that. The best auto gearbox is not the stock C4, it has no provision for an overdriven top gear, and first is too high. The auto 2.83 axle ratio is too tall.The manual 3.20 ratio is better. My strong suggestion is to get a poor man's overdrive by rebuilding a C4 with the Summit supplied 2.70 and 1.69 1st and 2nd gears. That way, the stock 2.83 axle ratio will Cruise great at 60 to 95 mph like my 2.73 axle 1981 3.3 Mustang Hatch did.
Your only other issue is then finding another 50 HP with a better two barrel carb and some better exhaust. I suggest my Facebook buddy Parkwood60's Rochester 2CG 2bbl and a welded iron 1979 header, just like his Billy Beer Racing 79 Fairmont Sport Coupe, a standard 3.3 car with a 264 ClaySmith cam, and an awesome 24Hour at Lemons
pedigree. A little 85 HP net engine becomes a much nicer 135 HP net engine. 18 % extra from the headers, 18% from the 2bbl carb and another 18% from the camshaft. If you use the stock cylinder head and shave it 50 thou, add a composite gasket, some better valve springs and retainer, and do a little work on the way the iron valve ports are profiled, you'll get into the 150hp level, and that would be a really nice ride.
Your only other issue is then finding another 50 HP with a better two barrel carb and some better exhaust. I suggest my Facebook buddy Parkwood60's Rochester 2CG 2bbl and a welded iron 1979 header, just like his Billy Beer Racing 79 Fairmont Sport Coupe, a standard 3.3 car with a 264 ClaySmith cam, and an awesome 24Hour at Lemons
pedigree. A little 85 HP net engine becomes a much nicer 135 HP net engine. 18 % extra from the headers, 18% from the 2bbl carb and another 18% from the camshaft. If you use the stock cylinder head and shave it 50 thou, add a composite gasket, some better valve springs and retainer, and do a little work on the way the iron valve ports are profiled, you'll get into the 150hp level, and that would be a really nice ride.
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