All Small Six Excessive Rocker “clatter”

[Goldie]

Hello everyone. Many of you have been following our build. Eng, trans, and suspension all upgraded. We are concerned with the excessive clatter coming from the valve train. I’ve read a lot about roller rockers being on the noisy side, but don’t know if this is our issue or not. Open to anyone’s suggestions or possible ideas. This is a high perf 200 with cast Aussie head, 2bbl Holley, perf Clay Smith cam, 10:1 comp pistons, header, balanced, 2500 stall conv in rebuilt C4.

Will remove the valve cover again to check clearances. Already checked the lash on the yella terra roller rockers and all good there.

Let us know what you think. Thank you!

 

[pmuller9]

You have a Clay Smith 264 hydraulic cam.
There shouldn't be any valve lash. Valve lash is only used on a solid lifter cam.
There should be .050" to .075" lifter preload instead of any valve lash.

 

[Invectivus]

Wow, that's some car.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Goldie, so with the Yella Terra Roller Rockers did you use the 289 / 302 SBF Lifters and the Oil Through Push Rods? Did you also drill, tap, and plug the back of the Block Deck I. E the old stock Rocker Arm Oiling System? I am sure you probably did all that but I have been away for awhile, so thought I would ask. Now did you use the below method to do the final adjustment of the Hydraulic Lifter Preload?

Final Adjustment for Hydraulic Lifters
Final valve adjustments should be done on an engine that has been warmed up. Make sure to let it cool off sufficiently so that you don't burn your fingers while rotating the pushrods. It is also a good idea to place a drop cloth or oil pan under the car/engine to prevent oil drips on the floor. Make sure you disconnect the coil wire before you do anything to make sure the motor won't start accidentally. Some guys prefer to remove all the plugs too, so the engine is easier to rotate during the procedure. Make sure you mark the plug wires before you disconnect them, so you don't mix up the firing order when you reinstall them.

First, rotate the engine until the #1 cylinder is on TDC, just after the compression stroke (you can feel the compressed air by putting your finger over the spark plug hole). Now you can adjust the following valves:


#1 intake - #1 exhaust - #2 intake - #3 exhaust - #4 intake - #5 exhaust

Next, rotate the engine until the #6 cylinder is on TDC, just after it's compression stroke (one full revolution of the crank shaft). Now adjust the remainder of the valves:


#2 exhaust - #3 intake - #4 exhaust - #5 intake - #6 intake - #6 exhaust

Adjust the valves by backing off the adjuster so that the pushrod can be easily rotated between your thumb and forefinger. Then slowly tighten the adjuster until you can no longer rotate the pushrod. Tighten the adjuster an additional 1/4-1/2 turn for the proper preload on the hydraulic lifter. We normally recommend 1/2 turn for a daily driver, and 1/4 turn for a performance motor with a higher rpm range. Note some who don't like hearing the Lifters that have blead down after setting for a short time on start up. So usually they don't like to use the 1/4 turn (Personally I really don't mind this so I use this setting on all my Street cars too gives a little more RPM potential "approx. 500 additional RPM" before Lifter Pump up). In the case that you like everything really quiet then you could also use a 3/4 to 1 full turn of preload. Good Luck.

 

[Goldie]

You have a Clay Smith 264 hydraulic cam.
There shouldn't be any valve lash. Valve lash is only used on a solid lifter cam.
There should be .050" to .075" lifter preload instead of any valve lash.

Hello Pmuller9... I am sending you a private message here. Thank you for your time!

Hi Goldie, so with the Yella Terra Roller Rockers did you use the 289 / 302 SBF Lifters and the Oil Through Push Rods? Did you also drill, tap, and plug the back of the Block Deck I. E the old stock Rocker Arm Oiling System? I am sure you probably did all that but I have been away for awhile, so thought I would ask. Now did you use the below method to do the final adjustment of the Hydraulic Lifter Preload?

Final Adjustment for Hydraulic Lifters
Final valve adjustments should be done on an engine that has been warmed…
…Good Luck.

Bubba, as always, you have provided a wealth of information and knowledge.
To answer your questions, yes, our engine was set up this way, with the exception of the altering of the rocker adjustments as you listed. Gary adjusted them twice (three times as of today)a set at a time. We did find that the rollers, while making an ideal contact patch, were slightly offset toward the right or left of the valve stem on some of the rockers. After discussing with a couple of people here and also Matt of Vintage Inlines, we were still at a loss. Gary decided to shift the entire base plate (both of them) that the rocker shafts sit in. Bringing those plates more forward (toward the front of the car) and then readjusting rockers again, seems to have corrected the problem. There is very little clatter now other than very slight if you are really listening for it. I imagine this is probably acceptable and the rollers themselves will have a tiny bit of sound given the extra moving parts. Matt is going to reach out to Yella Terra for us to see if they have any additional recommendations. Once again, you guys have saved the day and we are always so grateful for the help. Here are a few pictures of what we were dealing with but the offset of these rockers is now much less pronounced since the base plates were moved slightly and then retorqued.

 

[Frank]

. We did find that the rollers, while making an ideal contact patch, were slightly offset toward the right or left of the valve stem on some of the rockers. After discussing with a couple of people here and also Matt of Vintage Inlines, we were still at a loss. Gary decided to shift the entire base plate (both of them) that the rocker shafts sit in. Bringing those plates more forward (toward the front of the car) and then readjusting rockers again, seems to have corrected the problem. There is very little clatter now other than very slight if you are really listening for it. I imagine this is probably acceptable and the rollers themselves will have a tiny bit of sound given the extra moving parts.

The scoring of the rocker roller, evident in the center rocker on pic two, and the rocker in pic 3 "doesn't look right". It gives the impression that the rockers are flexing sideways- should be "impossible" on a shaft-mount system. There shouldn't be any wear evident on them at all, especially wear outside the at-rest contact patch. It may be the pic angle, but that's what it looks like. . . If you're still not at peace with it, their geometry can be checked in motion using a timing light. Put the pick-up on the coil wire not the plug wire. . A little messy, but you could observe them in action to verify correct geometry. .

 

[Goldie]

Thanks Frank. We agree that shouldnt be the case. Gary said the pics are a bit deceiving and there is no actual wear. We are hoping the adjustments he made to the base plates have corrected our issue. I sure hate to think the rockers could be damaged in any way or doing damage to the valves at all. I think we are going to have to drive the car a bit and then recheck the valve train.

Many thanks for your feedback!

The scoring of the rocker roller, evident in the center rocker on pic two, and the rocker in pic 3 "doesn't look right". It gives the impression that the rockers are flexing sideways- should be "impossible" on a shaft-mount system. There shouldn't be any wear evident on them at all, especially wear outside the at-rest contact patch. It may be the pic angle, but that's what it looks like. . . If you're still not at peace with it, their geometry can be checked in motion using a timing light. Put the pick-up on the coil wire not the plug wire. . A little messy, but you could observe them in action to verify correct geometry. .

 

[Goldie]

Wow, that's some car.

Thanks so much Invectivus! It's getting there.