Power steering pump modification for oil pump.

[Mydogisshaggy]

Anyone think that the vains or parts can be modified to make a belt driven oil scavenge pump down to the appropriate psi levels, either a cheap ford OEM pump or a Saginaw pump would be preferred because the whole idea is low cost. But worst case scenario the lower pressure mustang II pump for the rack and pinion puts out 2.gph I think or about 900psi. They make fittings or bypasses for those pumps to reduce flow but I'm no expert with supply and return line sizing and flow calculations and all, not to mention oil Aeration in general. And I really should do more research into turbo oiling/cooling in general but what I know at the moment for a remote mount setup is that I need a 40psi oil supply and drain and cooler. A separate system from the engine is better but not sure how cost prohibited it actually is. Maybe a transfer pump or dedicated oil pump is a better system anyway considering this will still draw power off the belt/crank but it would be a cool experiment. Is there anything I can do for tricks to reduce aeration? Either through dual coolers or spiraled tubing maybe? I know a baffled reservoir could help but wondering if it's enough. I'm not opposed to tapping the system into the engines oiling system , I guess a dry sump system is what it's called? My current oil pump is probably not up to the task and seems to be a weak point in the 300s anyway. Any thoughts or ideas are welcome please and thanks. I've found these nice 40psi oil regulators but need to figure out the maximum allowed inlet psi and exactly how many I would need and where in the system to keep the pressure in the right place.

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

Looks like the valve spring is what I should be looking at. A variable/adjustable one seems like it could make the system work. I don't see any major issues here now besides if the power steering pump can handle oil vs ps fluid, maybe have to change seals but oil should have less detergents and be safe to use?

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

If I double the line size from let's say 1/4" to 1/2" , would psi , pounds per square inch.. go in half effectively? I'm realizing the difference in volume vs pressure. The ps pump has good volume, I just have to regulate the pressure . They make some valves that reduce oiling pressure as rpms get higher, which could help I think but not planning above 5000rpm max.

 

[pmuller9]

If you are using the ps pump for a scavenging pump for a turbocharger, the system should not have any pressure.
We use a 1/2" line from the turbocharger to the scavenging pump and a 3/8" line from the pump as the oil pan return line.
All pressure valves need to be eliminated.
If the turbochargers center section sees any pressure on its oil return line, the seals could be damaged.

The oil supply line for the turbocharger comes directly off the engine blocks oil gallery.
Use a High Volume oil pump if you are concerned with oil volume.
If the turbo has a journal bearing, then full engine oil pressure is ok.
If the turbo has ball bearings, then the oil supply needs to be regulated at 40 psi.

Yes, If you have the money and want to have a turbo oil system independent from the engine, then you would use a dry sump system.
The external oil pump contains both the scavenging pump and the pressure pump and works with an oil tank.
The pump can be belt driven off the crankshaft or driven off the end of the camshaft with a hex drive.

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

If you are using the ps pump for a scavenging pump for a turbocharger, the system should not have any pressure.
We use a 1/2" line from the turbocharger to the scavenging pump and a 3/8" line from the pump as the oil pan return line.
All pressure valves need to be eliminated.
If the turbochargers center section sees any pressure on its oil return line, the seals could be damaged.

The oil supply line for the turbocharger comes directly off the engine blocks oil gallery.
Use a High Volume oil pump if you are concerned with oil volume.
If the turbo has a journal bearing, then full engine oil pressure is ok.
If the turbo has ball bearings, then the oil supply needs to be regulated at 40 psi.

Yes, If you have the money and want to have a turbo oil system independent from the engine, then you would use a dry sump system.
The external oil pump contains both the scavenging pump and the pressure pump and works with an oil tank.
The pump can be belt driven off the crankshaft or driven off the end of the camshaft with a hex drive.

I don't have the money that's why I thought about this... High volume pump is not an option for me. Thanks as usual

 

[Firepower354]

All of the oiling options are going to cost more than a M74HV, and be exponentially more effort.

A stand-alone oil system, finned aluminum tank mounted below the turbo, with a small electric pump?
A swap meet T350 trans pan, VW sump, etc, would suffice.

But, mounting it on the driver's side, U-pipe under the pan, and draining in to a drilled hole in the fuel pump pad, is about as simple/cheap as possible.

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

All of the oiling options are going to cost more than a M74HV, and be exponentially more effort.

A stand-alone oil system, finned aluminum tank mounted below the turbo, with a small electric pump?
A swap meet T350 trans pan, VW sump, etc, would suffice.

But, mounting it on the driver's side, U-pipe under the pan, and draining in to a drilled hole in the fuel pump pad, is about as simple/cheap as possible.

My new idea is a high flow mechanical fuel pump about 110gph punched into the side of my EFI block like the carbs have, running oil standalone to the turbo ($100ish plus lines)... You forget the m74hv is going to cost more, and not solve any heat issues and possibly create other issues, I've seen enough problems with the melling high volume pump to know I am good! And I want different oil for my turbo and engine and I don't want them contaminating each other if anything happens to either. If I do it this way and go cheap, and it works, I'll upgrade the turbo to a better one with the extra money. Also any changes to my fuel pump I need to do extensive work to remove the oil pan and pump.

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

Idk what the mechanical fuel pump can put out in oil but according to the hx-40 manual it needs 2 liters per minute at idle and 3 lpm at high rpm. Well a 30 gph mech. Fuel pump is putting out 1.9lpm with the stock carb lines. A 110gph is more money but still $100ish compared to a $20--40 stock carb one. A used unit adapted to the 300 arm could be less. Than no electronics to mess with either. I didn't calculate the lpm for the 110gph but using -4an on the supply line with an inline filter pre turbo and -10an on the return line with a heat sink before the fuel pump (oil pump) I had planned to use a radiator style cooler here too but if pressure is a concern I think my standalone transmission cooler with an electric fan nearby should help and the oil is not going into the motor so heat shouldn't be as high?

 

[Firepower354]

I'm not sure the pump will work well as a pressure and scavenge pump, especially with 10' of hose in each direction. Sick6 used it as a scavenge only, after feeding it pressurized engine oil. The turbo oiling is usually at a higher pressure

The oil filter does a swell job of limiting cross-contamination, with billions of miles travelled on shared systems...

The last EFI 4.9 I tore down did not have a finished fuel pump lobe on the cam.

A remote turbo isn't going to get as hot as one under the hood, so cooling shouldn't be too tough.

You'll still need a sump/reservoir after/below the turbo drain, so the pump can draw fluid rather than froth.

 

[Mydogisshaggy]

I'm not sure the pump will work well as a pressure and scavenge pump, especially with 10' of hose in each direction. Sick6 used it as a scavenge only, after feeding it pressurized engine oil. The turbo oiling is usually at a higher pressure

The oil filter does a swell job of limiting cross-contamination, with billions of miles travelled on shared systems...

The last EFI 4.9 I tore down did not have a finished fuel pump lobe on the cam.

A remote turbo isn't going to get as hot as one under the hood, so cooling shouldn't be too tough.

You'll still need a sump/reservoir after/below the turbo drain, so the pump can draw fluid rather than froth.

Thanks I noticed the part about the sump/reservoir after the turbo drain. And the cooling idea too, I think the remote mount filter instead of a cooler or inline filter will work just as well . I think I'll try this. ... Fuel pump(oil pump) to de-aerator to turbo to filter back to pump. I'm pretty convinced the higher pumping 90-110gph with a -3an to -4an at the de-aerator and turbo and -10 at the drain back to the filter and then pump.

 

[Firepower354]

The sump/tank will act as an air separator, so no need for that expense.