Baxsie
Well-known member
I need to get back out and measure that to know. Stay tuned.
Modifying the Holley HyperSpark distributor 565-315 (made for the "small block") to work with a "big block " Ford 240 six or 300 six
- Thread starter Baxsie
- Start date
I need to get back out and measure that to know. Stay tuned.
I am fairly certain that the center shaft in most all the Ford distributors used in the OHV engines are the same OD measurement from 1952 up. Still it would be good to double check that.
Baxsie
Well-known member
So I got the 1988 EFI distributor. It's a beauty:
Whoever designed this, and whoever designed the Holley one went to the same classes.
According to this site:
www.therangerstation.com
It appears that the distributor has the hall effect sensor (! I thought it would be VR ! - - once again schooled by @pmuller9 ) and then that white molded module is some kind of smartish electronics:
I would guess that the HyperSpark only needs the hall effect sensor output.
Interestingly, there is some mechanism for mechanical advance, but it is locked out at the factory.
More to learn.
Whoever designed this, and whoever designed the Holley one went to the same classes.
According to this site:
Ford EEC-IV/TFI-IV Electronic Engine Control Troubleshooting
It appears that the distributor has the hall effect sensor (! I thought it would be VR ! - - once again schooled by @pmuller9 ) and then that white molded module is some kind of smartish electronics:
I would guess that the HyperSpark only needs the hall effect sensor output.
Interestingly, there is some mechanism for mechanical advance, but it is locked out at the factory.
More to learn.
If you look at the shutters, there should be one vane that is narrow compared to the other five.
If you make that vane the same width as the others and make the window between the vanes the same, the leading and trailing edge spacing will be the same and can be used to trigger the Sniper.
You can keep the white module.
Just supply power to pin 3 and ground to pin 1 and use the PIP signal from pin 6 to trigger the Sniper
If you make that vane the same width as the others and make the window between the vanes the same, the leading and trailing edge spacing will be the same and can be used to trigger the Sniper.
You can keep the white module.
Just supply power to pin 3 and ground to pin 1 and use the PIP signal from pin 6 to trigger the Sniper
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It seems odd that It is the same as the small six cannot see that would happen.
I thought that, that measurement, was the distance of the block mounting point to the block thrust spot that the gear rides on on the down way. So they say bottom of the gear , I figured the thrust part of the gear not the bottom of gear tooth. But maybe it is right if you measure to the bottom of the tooth then add about .5'' to the bottom thrust face. Now I am confused.
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Baxsie
Well-known member
The Holley has that same arrangement - one vane is more narrow. I'll get some more photos and measurements tomorrow.
One thing I do not like about the Ford distributor is that the mechanism that could be used for mechanical advance (but is locked out) makes the mounting of the hall effect sensor a little wobbly compared to the Holley which is rock solid.
I'll poke around tomorrow and formulate a plan. I'll probably end up with three distributors, none of which work.
I'm not surprised.
The narrow vane along with the increased window time marks cylinder #1 for sequential fuel injection and/or distributorless ignition.
This also means that the Ford TFI distributor can be used as is for the Holley Snipers and may be the reason why they don't make a Hyperspark distributor for the Ford 240/300 six.
Baxsie
Well-known member
I wanted to be sure of using the Ford distributor instead of the Holley, so I spun them both with a drill and looked at the waveforms. It appears that the ford will drop right in, and no worries about hacked mechanical oil pump drive items breaking and rattling around in the crankcase.
As far as I can tell, except for not having the fancy-looking case of the Holley, there should no downside to using the Ford EFI distributor. Plus at $40 it is way cheaper than the Holley.
I need to clean up the Ford distributor. For reference, here are the stickers/ part numbers on it for anyone silly enough to follow this path.
Molded into the case: E4TE-12141-BA
Sticker on the case: E7TE-12A332-GA W/MOD OAK E7TE-12127-EA
The plastic bit inside: E8ZE-12AH2-A2A
Not tested yet.
As far as I can tell, except for not having the fancy-looking case of the Holley, there should no downside to using the Ford EFI distributor. Plus at $40 it is way cheaper than the Holley.
I need to clean up the Ford distributor. For reference, here are the stickers/ part numbers on it for anyone silly enough to follow this path.
Molded into the case: E4TE-12141-BA
Sticker on the case: E7TE-12A332-GA W/MOD OAK E7TE-12127-EA
The plastic bit inside: E8ZE-12AH2-A2A
Not tested yet.
Thanks for testing the waveform outputs.
The Ford TFI distributor will be a great substitute for the non-existent 240/300 HyperSpark distributor.
The Hall Effect 12-volt square wave is far superior to a VR signal.
Interesting about the signal limits.
The signal that goes to the supply voltage but not quite to zero is usually an open collector NPN transistor with a pull up resistor.
The signal that goes to zero but not quite to the supply voltage can be an open collector PNP transistor with a pull down resistor.
Great Work!
The Ford TFI distributor will be a great substitute for the non-existent 240/300 HyperSpark distributor.
The Hall Effect 12-volt square wave is far superior to a VR signal.
Interesting about the signal limits.
The signal that goes to the supply voltage but not quite to zero is usually an open collector NPN transistor with a pull up resistor.
The signal that goes to zero but not quite to the supply voltage can be an open collector PNP transistor with a pull down resistor.
Great Work!
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Looks like it is time the change the thread title.
Is there any need to add a diode when customizing the EEC-IV distributor for use outside of stock electrical configuration?
There are only three connections.
Power from the ignition switch, signal and ground.
Where would you place the diode?
What is the measurement from the bottom of the gear and bottom of the flange?
It was a question if one might be needed, since the distributor is getting it's voltage supply outside of the typical ECU; which would filter out any stray or non-biased voltage pattern. Adding a diode could even prevent ruining the control module if the ones in the alternator were to fail
Baxsie
Well-known member
Looking at the hall effect sensors of the Holley and the Ford:
Except for the connections, the sensors are identical. Also, I verified that the Holley uses a hall effect sensor.
I got the Ford distributor completely disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reassembled:
I got it installed, and did static timing of 12° (from @djstucker's video, IIRC) on what I think is the correct vane inside the distributor. I guess I'll see if it was correct.
As far as the diode, I will have to see how the Holley wiring goes - - I believe that the distributor is supplied power from some other component in the Holley system.
Except for the connections, the sensors are identical. Also, I verified that the Holley uses a hall effect sensor.
I got the Ford distributor completely disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reassembled:
I got it installed, and did static timing of 12° (from @djstucker's video, IIRC) on what I think is the correct vane inside the distributor. I guess I'll see if it was correct.
As far as the diode, I will have to see how the Holley wiring goes - - I believe that the distributor is supplied power from some other component in the Holley system.
Most all hall effects work on 5v and sensor ground supplied from the ECM. Using it through the TFI module may cause a problem on 5v, but I'd wager it'd still work. It'd be easy enough to check. To simplify things further, utilize the latest model 4.9L distributor with hall effect and pigtail only and no TFI module attached.
I'm interested in knowing if Holley is actually using the #1 vane for cyl ID. I didn't think they were supporting signature PIP and I'd guess they are only using the equally spaced trailing edge for trigger. I'd also guess they built it as such so they can market the distributor as a drop in replacement as well as working with their products.
I'm interested in knowing if Holley is actually using the #1 vane for cyl ID. I didn't think they were supporting signature PIP and I'd guess they are only using the equally spaced trailing edge for trigger. I'd also guess they built it as such so they can market the distributor as a drop in replacement as well as working with their products.
The 4.9 distributor worked just fine on 12 volts using the module as seen in post #29.
I would keep the module in place as a buffer between the Hall Effect unit and outside electrics.
The Holley port injected EFI systems do support PIP ID for #1 cylinder for sequential injection and distributorless ignition
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I am reading this as, the module serving as a passive interface. It will have no duty as an ignition control module anymore?
Yes it will be a passive interface and the Sniper 1100 takes on the ignition timing duty.
It can still be used as a TFI ignition coil driver but then you are back to the heat issue that caused Ford to move the unit remote from the distributor.