All Small Six Input shaft pressing against pilot bushing

[bubba22349]

Hum kind of looks like the Pilot Busing is Cocked a little at an angle in the second Picture above but that maybe from the Camera Angle, otherwise the Bushing looks to be installed all the way in and Flush with the other Edge of the Crankshaft Flange just like it should be. And you can sure see were the Input Shaft was hitting the Pilot Busing hard, this is looking like either your input shaft is too long or "drag-200stang" might be onto something with a Thrust Bearing in wrong position, something sure is moving things in the wrong direction for things to fit properly.

 

[frozenrabbit]

It's got to be your input shaft. I just measured my 2.77 with the bell housing mounted, the input shaft is only about 1/2" out from the bell housing. Just like powerband's photos.

Yours being at 1.39" is not right. If there are 2 different input shaft lengths, 7-13/16" and 8-3/4", you have the long one.

Using your measurement and subtracting the difference between the short and long input shaft works out to 0.4525", right around that 1/2" that it should be.

Can't be your thrust bearing in the engine, If the crank was back 1", nothing would bolt together in the bottom end.

 

[bubba22349]

Well "forzenrabbit just nailed! How did that Trans ever fit into your Car before with that long of an Input Shaft?

 

[F15EagleE]

You know, I have no idea. I swapped the motor with a rebuilt one with the same date code on the Block but I found some pics I took before hand...

 

[frozenrabbit]

Old motor pilot bearing looks right, certainly not inward 1". The front bearing retainer/snout wouldn't bolt up if a 7-13/16" shaft was 1" forward in the case.

Couple more measurements, about 1" of splines out from the bearing retainer, 1-1/8" pilot shaft from splines to tip. Front lip of bearing retainer is in 1-3/4" from bell housing flange.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes looks like that Pilot Bushing is setting much deeper into the Crankshaft's Center Hub. Appears to be like over a 1/4 inch below the Flywheel mounting bolt surface and the inside edge also has much more of a Radius inward too, so that kind of explains how it could of worked before with a 15/16 (.9375) inch longer Input shaft.

 

[frozenrabbit]

It does look like the splines 'machined' the pilot bearing on the old motor.

 

[drag-200stang]

The new pics put up show that the crank stick out is right, so the thrust is right.
It is not the block, all 144,170 and 200 the crank stick out is the same.
frozen is right that the input is to long
Maybe a good time to get rid of that pos 277. I know I was a lot happier with the 303 and even happier with the 278 four speed and I would of loved to have a T5 but it was not made at the time.

 

[bubba22349]

This site member "Mike_Senar" is advertising that he has Ford Six Engines, Parts, and also lots of the old HEH 3 Speed Transmission parts, maybe he would be able to help you with getting the right Input Shaft. https://fordsix.com/threads/ford-six-engines-parts-and-heh-3-speed-transmissions.84625/

As far as swapping to a all synchro 3.03 3 Speed, 4 speed, in the below link the Posts show a 3.03 Transmission adapted onto a 2.77 3 Speed Bell Housing, here is the link. https://fordsix.com/threads/3-03-3-speed-toploader-with-8-5-clutch-on-1965-200-ci.82994/

This is the Custom 3.03 Top Loader Trans Adapter Plate (Fits up a Top Loader 4 Speed too and fits it onto a 2.77 Bell Housing, shown in this below post. You could use all your other parts except you need to swap the Clutch Disk from the 15/16 splined Hub to the 1963 to 1966 Econoline 144 or 170 Six Clutch Disk a 3.03 3 Speed 1 1/16 Inch 10 Spline Hub 8.5 Clutch Disk. https://fordsix.com/threads/3-03-3-speed-toploader-with-8-5-clutch-on-1965-200-ci.82994/#post-655574

 

[frozenrabbit]

If you aren't looking to go the complete swap route, I'd look around local on FB or Craigslist for a 2.77, most are just considered scap to anyone upgrading, or 'please come get this out of my garage!' Look for posts for 144s and 170s, usually have transmissions with them, or the seller has one they just put in their scrap pile.

 

[Colorado66]

I am trying to remember if I kept the 2.77 I pulled out of my '66 back in 1992 or not.... I like the 3.03 much better, if so it is at my folks place in VA.

 

[powerband]

--
"... interesting thing is it appears there are two different input shaft lengths? 7 13/16" and 8 3/4″? . "
-
-
interesting to me, never considered different 2.77 Input shafts. Some clarification of this - application or build-date specific for length. ?.

the other side of different shaft lengths is what was different to accommodate it - crank , BH ...?

I have an early Comet, and a few 'early-build' items are evident.


hav e fun

 

[F15EagleE]

So good news was after take .14" off it bolted up and I turned it over to ensure no hang ups...
All other specs seems to line up except the input shaft length. Honestly I would prefer to convert to t5 but don't want to spend right now... hasn't been on the road in a couple years so just getting it out of the garage would be nice... lol

 

[bubba22349]

--
"... interesting thing is it appears there are two different input shaft lengths? 7 13/16" and 8 3/4″? . "
-
-
interesting to me, never considered different 2.77 Input shafts. Some clarification of this - application or build-date specific for length. ?.

the other side of different shaft lengths is what was different to accommodate it - crank , BH ...?

I have an early Comet, and a few 'early-build' items are evident.


hav e fun

Hi powerband, like drag-200stang I don't believe that Ford ever changed the 144, 170, or 200 Six Block or Crankshaft dimensions at the rear of the blocks to ever need the 15/16 (.9375) longer Input Shafts, so that would only being it needed for a taller Depth Bell Housing. I once though there were suppose to be a one year only 1966 170 and 200 Six Big Bell Housing made for the larger 136 Tooth Flat Flywheel's with a 9 Inch Clutch and that would bolt up to all the Early Ford Narrow Trans Mounting Bolt Pattern for the 3.03 3 & 4 Speeds plus the early T10 4 Speeds (see 2nd and other pictures. I have been searching for one of these a long time and have not found any evidence that its true or that they even existed. Below is a C6OA-6393-C Bell that I was told was out of a 1966 Fairlane (suppose to be for a 3 Speed) that I have setting in my shop (See the First Picture) it is a Big 136 Tooth Flywheel Bell Housing which has a very odd Trans Bolt Mounting Pattern. Some also say this is the late Dagenham 4 Speed Bell Housing I don't know. I wonder if this would of still have used a Mod version of the 2.77 3 Speed if so it would have needed that longer Input Shaft the Bell has a 6 1/4 (6.250) Depth the same as all the other 1967 C7 Bells for a 170 & 200 Six 136 Tooth Bell Housings and up to 1977. I just don't know what the Transmissions look like that were in those 1966 Fairlane's.