All Small Six Input shaft pressing against pilot bushing

[F15EagleE]

Hey all
I have a 65 mustang and purchased a Rebuilt c5de motor. When installing my 2.77 , the input shaft is contacting the pilot bushing. It's approximately .25" sticking out... Not sure what's up and hoped someone can shed some light on what's going on here.

The bushing is .5" wide and driven all the way in. Perhaps there are different crankshaft for the motor?

At this point I'm considering shaving the pilot bushing down to let the transmission fit properly.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi F15EagleE and welcome to the Ford six Forum! Just where are you trying to install that 1965 2.77 Pilot Bushing at? There are no different Crankshaft Configurations used on the 1965 up 200 Six's as far as the Crankshaft's Flange, Center Hub Dimensions, or distance from the back of the Short Block are concerned so the one you have is the right one. The Crankshaft's Input Pilot Shaft Bushing should also be installed into the Crankshaft Center Hub (location is shown in your second picture), that could also use some wire brushing the remove the Rust inside it for an easier install, there would never be a need to ever shorten up the Bushing in any way when it's installed correctly. It should not be driven all the way in it and should only be even with the Crankshafts Center Flange Hub's outside edge. It also gets installed first thing along with the Block Spacer Plate (Tin Plate) before the Flywheel is ever bolted on. That's sure a good looking new Billet Stepped Flywheel you have on your engine though, Good luck on the install.

 

[F15EagleE]

Hi F15EagleE and welcome to the Ford six Forum! Just where are you trying to install that 1965 2.77 Pilot Bushing at? There are no different Crankshaft Configurations used on the 1965 up 200 Six's as far as the Crankshaft's Flange, Center Hub Dimensions, or distance from the back of the Short Block are concerned so the one you have is the right one. The Crankshaft's Input Pilot Shaft Bushing should also be installed into the Crankshaft Center Hub (location is shown in your second picture), that could also use some wire brushing the remove the Rust inside it for an easier install. Its should not be driven all the way in it should be even with the Crankshafts Center Flange Hub's outside edge. It should also be installed first thing with the Block Spacer Plate (Tin Plate) before the Flywheel is ever bolted on. That's sure a good looking new Billet Stepped Flywheel you have on your engine though, Good luck on the install.

That seems to be the trouble... it's not flush as the bushing is deeper than the opening... guess I have to shave the bushing?

 

[bubba22349]

Can you show us a picture of that trouble you having please.

 

[F15EagleE]

Can you show a picture of that please.

Can you show us a picture of that trouble you having please.

Of what exactly?

 

[F15EagleE]

Of what exactly?

The first photo shows the indents of the input shaft splines. Almost like the bushing needs to be thinner or the transmission spaced back a bit

 

[bubba22349]

That seems to be the trouble... it's not flush as the bushing is deeper than the opening... guess I have to shave the bushing?

You said its deeper than the opening so what opening are you talking about here. The Bushing is installed into the Crankshaft before the Flywheel is installed as in the above directions so its flush without the Flywheel installed.

 

[bubba22349]

Are you talking about the Clutch Disk Splines in the first Picture? Is that Pilot Bushing installed behind the Clutch Disk? The second picture doesn't even show that a Pilot Bushing being installed into the Crankshaft, without this done the Transmission will never line up or operate correctly without the Bushing put into the Crankshaft. The Bushing that goes into the Crankshaft Center Hub looks like this. https://www.classicindustries.com/product/1965/ford/mustang/parts/7600f.html

 

[F15EagleE]

To be clear, the bushing is not installing flush with the crankshaft. By deeper I meant the width of the bushing is greater than the opening. I wire brushed the opening and installed a new bushing but still make contact with the input shaft splines

 

[bubba22349]

Did you use a Hammer and and old Socket turned around to Drive it in with? They will go in flush if everything is clean with the right amount of force.

 

[F15EagleE]

Yup, reversed a socket and used an extension to drive it in. I made sure it bottomed out with a 90 degree pick too.

In regards to the link above, a warning to others as the image shown is the incorrect part number. I found that out the hard way lol.

The opening seems to be about 3/8ths deep and the bushing is half an inch hence the contact?

 

[bubba22349]

So dose you bushing install look anything like this picture with a C3DA-6394-B 2.77 3 Speed Bell Housing? Do you have the Block Spacer Plate (Tin Plate) installed behind the Bell Housing too if not that is 1/8 (.125) inch thick and needs to be there? You can also use a Roller Type Pilot Bearing in place of the Bushing. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=220024&cc=1333370&pt=1964&jsn=10957
Do you have a Picture of the 2.77 input shaft in your first picture its hard to make out what's wrong with it other than its not centered, below are some pictures of my 1965 Mustang 2.77 Trans with Factory Floor Shifter installed for reference. Is this a Conversion from an Auto Trans or was it a working 3 speed Manual Trans before with all the correct parts?

 

[F15EagleE]

First, thanks for staying with me on this....

I think you're right about the roller bearing may be in order due to width...

I attached a pic of the transmission while I was replacing gaskets so proportions will appear off... I can take photos of it as is if desired.

So the input shaft is is aligned, it's just that it's going too far in.

Yes, I have the engine block plate installed before the flywheel.

It's definitely one of those things where I want it to be something obvious that I over looked cause the amount of time I spent on this issue, I could've had it reinstalled and driving down the road!

 

[bubba22349]

That's great on the Block Plate, the input shaft of the trans, and also thank you very much for the second to last picture in that one I can see the Pilot Bushing is installed. Clutch Disk, and the Release Arm with its Bearing, so much better too and can also see that they are lined up good. I think what I was having trouble with was that in that first picture above of those same parts it was such a close up shot that I couldn't see all those parts as well. Anyway everything looks really good on all of your Flywheel and Clutch Assembly install. Otherwise the only other thing I can think of is if the Clutch Disk happened to be turned around the wrong way. I know that isn't likely because if the hub is in backwards it will cause trouble to even be able to bolt down the Pressure Plate. I have never had to cut down a Bushing on one of these before but it should be fine if you have a small 6 or 7 inch Angle Grinder or even a big body type Grinder than you could cut down that Pilot Bushing some so it clears with it installed or else change over to the Roller Bearing.Best of luck.

 

[F15EagleE]

That's great on the Block Plate, the input shaft of the trans, and also thank you very much for the second to last picture in that one I can see the Polit Bushing is installed. Clutch Disk, and the Release Arm its Bearing, so much better too and can also see that they are lined up good. I think what I was having trouble with was that in that first picture above of those same parts it was such a close up shot that I couldn't see all those parts as well. Anyway everything looks really good on all of your Flywheel and Clutch Assembly install otherwise, only other thing I can think of is if the Clutch Disk happened to be turned around the wrong way. I know that isn't likely because if the hub is in backwards it will cause trouble to even be able to bolt down the Pressure Plate. I have never had to do that before but should be fine if you have a small 6 or 7 inch Angle Grinder or even a big body type Grinder than you could cut down that Polit Bushing some so it clears with it installed or else change over to the Roller Bearing.Best of luck.

Thanks for your insight on this. Just for fun I am attaching two more photos... this will be my 4th pilot install on this motor so you can imagine how much fun I'm having.

I will try and measure the depth of the crank Bushing area after removing though the dish style makes it a bit difficult...

 

[bubba22349]

Wow, yes that's bound to be quite frustrating having to do 4 different Pilot Bushing installs. I have to wonder if those Bushings are being manufactured to the wrong Dimensions for this to be even be happening. Its not really surprising though with the way the parts industry has changed over the last 25 or more years and all of its out sourcing of shore of the manufacturing. I can also see that in your first picture that the Clutch Disk is installed correctly too. I know that these Bell Housings are a 5 1/2 (5.500) Inch Depth, however I don't have the info on the length of the Input Shaft from the Mounting Face of the 2.77 Transmission. I can only imagine trying to remove and replace all those Pilot Bushings with the Flywheel installed in all the years I have done these jobs I have only done them with the Flywheel removed and only one per job. Good luck

 

[powerband]

very intriguing,

been lurking trying to find anything helpful to add to conversation, ...I'm also a little frustrated with the variables.
pics probly wont help but add to observation

2.77 / BH - OH with @ 1/2 " of input shaft protruding



71 (C8DE) 170 with resurfaced 3.03 flywheel and roller Pilot showing it actually protruding and not interfering with T5 installed.

.

'74 250 (D2DE)

.

hav e fun

 

[drag-200stang]

This is unlikely, but maybe the thrust bearing was put on the wrong place pushing the crank out farther, the mounting face of the crank for the flywheel should stick out 1/16'' past the block face on 144, 170 and 200.............................................250 is about 1/4''
Has this transmission been run ok before?

 

[F15EagleE]

LoL... I've become adept at using the bread and 1/2 extension to drive it out....

Here is the measurement I just took off the protruding input shaft from the bellhousing...

Also, thanks for the pics and ideas.... this transmission was used previously in my car but the crank got scored and flywheel gouged when the clutch disc exploded.

 

[F15EagleE]

This is unlikely, but maybe the thrust bearing was put on the wrong place pushing the crank out farther, the mounting face of the crank for the flywheel should stick out 1/16'' past the block face on 144, 170 and 200.............................................250 is about 1/4''
Has this transmission been run ok before?

I didn't rebuild myself so I don't know but that is very interesting regarding the thrust bearing...

Another interesting thing is it appears there are two different input shaft lengths? 7 13/16" and 8 3/4″?

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