All Small Six Firing order reversed?

[Kritas]

I've heard of such things but have never actually seen it in person. My new-to-me 1966 200 ci Mustang runs rough, and the previous owner never got it sorted. He didn't keep it long, thought it was the carb and mounted a new Autolite 1100. I asked him if he'd performed any bench adjustments for it and was told "the counterman told me it was set up out of the box". I pulled it and did all the adjustments as Mike's Carburetor suggested in his video. It's much better, but still runs rough.

Next up, I took a look at the distributor (this is my first Ford inline 6 and I assume nothing). This is what I found:



It appears that a previous owner set the firing order to 6-2-4-1-5-3. I pulled the wires and set them to 1-5-3-6-2-4. Now the engine will not fire. My theory is that whoever set up the firing order missed TDC and installed the distributor on the exhaust stroke and then wired the plugs "backwards" to get the engine to run. My internet research indicates that this is possible.

My plan is to find actual TDC and check the rotor on the distributor. If it's out, I'll pull it and install it correctly. I'm stopping for the day, so I thought I'd post and get some input here and pick this up again tomorrow. I'm pulling all the maintenance and checking everything before taking the car out for a drive.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Kritas, The Distributor body is installed close to right as it is so it's not backwards, but yes for sure the Rotor Position isn't set correctly. Good plan on finding true TDC for the number 1 Cylinder on it's Compression Stoke, then see where the Rotor is pointing in relation to the Number 1 Spark Plug Tower of the Distributor Cap, most of the Ford Cap's will have the #1 marked on the Cap. It shouldn't take you very long to get it dialed in correctly once you find TDC. Do you have a Timing Light to use to set your Base Timing? Good luck

 

[Kritas]

Hi Kritas, The Distributor body is installed close to right as it is so it's not backwards. Good plan on finding true TDC for the number 1 Cylinder on it's Compression Stoke, then see where the Rotor is pointing in relation to the Number 1 Spark Plug Tower of the Distributor Cap, most of the Ford Cap's will have the #1 marked on the Cap. It shouldn't take you very long to get it dialed in correctly once you find TDC. Do you have a Timing Light to use to set your Base Timing? Good luck

Thanks Bubba. When I said "backwards", I don't mean that I planned to turn it around with the vacuum advance pointed to the radiator, so I changed the title of the thread. I think the distributor is facing the right way, but the engine was 180 degrees out when it was installed. Sorry for that miscommunication. Yes, I have a timing light. I didn't try to time the engine with the previous wiring. Now I wonder if the marks could be seen with the engine set up that way.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes, I have a timing light. I didn't try to time the engine with the previous wiring. Now I wonder if the marks could be seen with the engine set up that way.

That's great you have one. Yes you would be able to see the timing marks no matter how the Distributor is set up all that matters is that Rotor is pointing to the correct Spark Plug Wire in the Firing Order that is the next one to fire. Moving the Plug Wires around on the cap is kind of a common Chevy / GM guy kind of thing that lots of people will do instead of just pulling the distributor out and putting it in the right way. Yes it works fine yet I never could see that it was any easier to do that than installing the Distributor correctly. Its just part of my back ground because I was trained in an FAA approved school for 2 years and attained my A & P Licenses. LOL and of course this kind of a backyard hack practice would be severely frond upon in any of the Aircraft Trades.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, set the engine up to TDC on the compression stroke and see where the rotor is pointing. Remember these rotors spin clockwise. Then set the firing order. As mentioned, you do not have to pull the distributor, just run the firing order off the the rotors current position. If you can't get the engine to run real good, go over the tune up parts, confirm the vacuum advance is working, run a compression test, check for vacuum leaks, and make sure the carb is compatible with the early LOM distributor. Once it is running good, set the timing to @12* BTDC and adjust he carb. Read up on these engines in the tech section. Good luck

 

[Kritas]

I have all new ignition parts coming-rotor, wires, coil, points, cap. I noticed that there are a few degrees of play in the rotor. That could also be the cause of the rough running when it's given gas. The parts were supposed to be here by tonight but have been rescheduled due to weather delays. Ah well. Thanks for your input!

 

[drag-200stang]

Not that it matters but that block looks newer than 66. 66 blocks still had the rood draft port casting in the block even though it was not used.

 

[Slickster]

An HEI dist does wonders, instant starting, easy install....cheap too...do it!

 

[Kritas]

An HEI dist does wonders, instant starting, easy install....cheap too...do it!

I agree. I'm fixing up the "stock" car while I decide what to do next. I'm considering a full Sniper system with the FI unit, fuel pump in tank, and Hyperspark distributor vs. simply doing a couple of upgrades like HEI, etc.

 

[Kritas]

Not that it matters but that block looks newer than 66. 66 blocks still had the rood draft port casting in the block even though it was not used.

Interesting observation. I'll get the numbers from the block to see if I can determine what year it is. I'm not familiar enough with the 200 engines to have noticed. However, I generally figure that something's been switched out on an older car, so I'm not surprised. The red paint was a clue that the engine had probably been out of the car at some point.

 

[Kritas]

Here are the casting numbers on the block bulled from the passenger side just beneath the exhaust downtube.

G
D8BE
6015*GE

According to https://automotivemileposts.com/ford/fordpartnumbers.html, it appears that I have a 1978 block from a Fairmont. Checking https://www.carfolio.com/ford-fairmont-684255 shows that the six cylinder in that model year was 3272 cc, which converts to 200 ci. I'll have to do some more reading up on this. I'm not particularly bugged by the swap if it's to my advantage, but the hp seems to be low according to the site. This information will help when ordering parts, etc.

 

[drag-200stang]

Yes the block is a 78 but what is the head? The casting design number is on the intake manifold top between the carb and the rear end of manifold.
Do not worry about what the hp is listed at it means nothing.

 

[Kritas]

Yes the block is a 78 but what is the head? The casting design number is on the intake manifold top between the carb and the rear end of manifold.
Do not worry about what the hp is listed at it means nothing.

Ha.... I was just out pulling those numbers since I'm more interested in the head for performance reasons. I haven't looked it up yet, but here are the numbers.

D7BE 6090 BE This is from the intake manifold. I'm double-checking to ensure that's the correct location.

 

[drag-200stang]

Good then it is a large log 200/250 head.

 

[Kritas]

Good then it is a large log 200/250 head.

That's what I was hoping for, a large log head. What other info (or a site) can you pull from that casting number? I'm also wondering if this makes a difference for carburation, etc. I have an Autolite 1100 that was installed by the previous owner. I'm thinking that the large log will be pulling more air.

 

[Kritas]

Going back to https://automotivemileposts.com/ford/fordpartnumbers.html, it's looking like a head from a 77 Maverick or a holdover to the next year's Fairmont.

https://fordsix.com/ams/small-six-specs-144-170-200-250ci.9/ says the D7BE on the head makes it a 75-80 250 head.

 

[bmbm40]

66 Mustang is a good one to have and a real plus to have the later large log head. You could probably benefit by getting a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford Inline Six How to Rebuild and Modify both available from fordsix.com. These will really get you up to speed on the small six.

 

[Kritas]

66 Mustang is a good one to have and a real plus to have the later large log head. You could probably benefit by getting a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford Inline Six How to Rebuild and Modify both available from fordsix.com. These will really get you up to speed on the small six.

Got 'em both, plus a couple of other reference books. I'm reading through them before I start spending any real money on upgrades. Thanks to everyone for all the input.

 

[bubba22349]

So having the Large Log Head a newer 1V Carb like a Carter will bolt on or even a 2V with an Adapter. you would also be better off looking for a better distributor like a 1976 to 1982 DuraSpark II Distributor it will be an easy drop in since you have the newer 1978 Block too and it will run very nice. Lots more you can do depending on were you went it to end up at. Have you looked at which Transmission you have? Good luck

 

[Kritas]

So having the Large Log Head a newer 1V Carb like a Carter will bolt on or even a 2V with an Adapter. you would also be better off looking for a better distributor like a 1976 to 1982 DuraSpark II Distributor it will be an easy drop in since you have the newer 1978 Block too and it will run very nice. Lots more you can do depending on were you went it to end up at. Have you looked at which Transmission you have? Good luck

Yes, now I'm thinking of different avenues than before. This is why I take my time and work my way through things to get a feel for them before running out and buying a ton of parts. Now I have a stock baseline to work from and know what I have. I feel that I have some more performance options now with the later head and block. I'm wondering if can skip the FI system and simply update the distributor. I have everything back together now and was ready to fire it up, but the new, fully charged battery is dead so it's on the charger and I'm going to troubleshoot that next.

Bubba, I'm wondering about the trans now. I'll crawl up under there and have a look shortly.