CI'd, Fitech'd, turbo 200

[gus91326]

Hey Guys! Yep, I went on Monday of last week to get them to try and get the engine tuned.

The car runs ok on the street- no hiccups, runs fine in traffic and no overheating issues. I went in with two requests- improve throttle response and make sure the tune is safe for taking it to the track.

The guys at Westech were really thorough. They even plumbed in a fuel pressure sensor and checked all the major connections to make sure we wouldn't run into any issues. I will say that they did indeed make the low to mi throttle response snappier, but as you saw we ran into issues at higher revs where the Fitech refused to add in more fuel. It would run great in mid, with AFRs in 10.5-11 but then it would just pull fuel and get into 13 before we stopped the run. As a matter of fact, we maxed out the fuel settings and it still ran lean. We checked fuel pressure, plugs, ignition, etc. and all looked fine. It was cool of the Fitech guy to offer up to get involved- I'll call him next week.

As for the front nipple, I'm confused as I am only using that port for the intake blow off valve, and it worked fine for that purpose. There is nothing using that for boost reference. Am I missing something on this?

I'll report back when I have more info.

 

[guhfluh]

Hey Guys! Yep, I went on Monday of last week to get them to try and get the engine tuned.

The car runs ok on the street- no hiccups, runs fine in traffic and no overheating issues. I went in with two requests- improve throttle response and make sure the tune is safe for taking it to the track.

The guys at Westech were really thorough. They even plumbed in a fuel pressure sensor and checked all the major connections to make sure we wouldn't run into any issues. I will say that they did indeed make the low to mi throttle response snappier, but as you saw we ran into issues at higher revs where the Fitech refused to add in more fuel. It would run great in mid, with AFRs in 10.5-11 but then it would just pull fuel and get into 13 before we stopped the run. As a matter of fact, we maxed out the fuel settings and it still ran lean. We checked fuel pressure, plugs, ignition, etc. and all looked fine. It was cool of the Fitech guy to offer up to get involved- I'll call him next week.

As for the front nipple, I'm confused as I am only using that port for the intake blow off valve, and it worked fine for that purpose. There is nothing using that for boost reference. Am I missing something on this?

I'll report back when I have more info.

Yes Gus, the (connection to the)front nipple needs to be removed from the blow off valve and capped at the Fitech. That source is tied to the Fitech internal MAP sensor port and with it plumbed to the blow off valve, it will affect the MAP sensor readings. MAP readings are what the computer uses to calculate the main fueling from. It is probably causing some of the throttle response issues you are seeing. I will still say that unless you were making 500+ HP, I would check that each injector is flowing under all conditions. It has also been seen where the Fitech injectors like to stick closed when fuel pressures start to rise much more than the 58psi base and approaching 70psi, they quit.

 

[pmuller9]

As for the front nipple, I'm confused as I am only using that port for the intake blow off valve, and it worked fine for that purpose. There is nothing using that for boost reference. Am I missing something on this?

According to the instruction manual the passage continues up to the MAP sensor.
When you use the system on a draw thru like a supercharger the hole down to the intake manifold gets plugged and a line from the nipple goes to the intake manifold for boost reference for the MAP.
On a blow thru nipple gets capped.
In your case running the line to the blowoff valve is the same as capping so you are good.

 

[guhfluh]

As for the front nipple, I'm confused as I am only using that port for the intake blow off valve, and it worked fine for that purpose. There is nothing using that for boost reference. Am I missing something on this?

According to the instruction manual the passage continues up to the MAP sensor.
When you use the system on a draw thru like a supercharger the hole down to the intake manifold gets plugged and a line from the nipple goes to the intake manifold for boost reference for the MAP.
On a blow thru nipple gets capped.
In your case running the line to the blowoff valve is the same as capping so you are good.

Paul, that is NOT correct. It is NOT the same.

 

[guhfluh]

If you have Facebook this video should work. I don't know if it will work if not.
https://m.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=14 ... link&_rdr#

 

[pmuller9]

In your case running the line to the blowoff valve is the same as capping so you are good.

Paul, that is NOT correct. It is NOT the same.

Ok I stand corrected. Thanks for the video.
For a blow thru they don't want anything connected to that nipple, just cap it.

 

[gus91326]

Merry Christmas guys!

So I said I would report back when I got my car- It was with with Fitech guys for a bit over a week (they were working on it in between their usual work). I picked it up on Wednesday- The work they did on the car was:
1) Rewired the fitech power wire; they were seeing some voltage drop at starting so they tried another place to pull power- it wasn't really an issue related to full throttle, but more related to starting
2) Moved the intake BOV vacuum signal to another port; while the Fitech guys were saying that the way I had it should be fine, they still moved it.
3) Reworked the tune- the guys at Westech were forcing the computer to be open loop; something was obviously not right as we were seeing a lean condition at higher RPM. When I dropped the car off the Fitech rep made some quick changes in the handheld and we went for a ride- the lean condition was immediately gone and the car revved to 5k with no issue.

So my fuel system was not the issue- end result for my motor was 272rwhp at 5500 rpm, and 305lbft at 4500 rpm. I saw ~7lbs of boost; we used 91 octane So Cal gas, so we had to make some timing adjustments as we heard a little pinging in one of the dyno runs. The car revs easily and drives great! Thanks again to all of you that provided guidance, especially Paul Muller, Bill Ambler and Mr. Xtasy for all the valuable info!

 

[wme013]

Very good deal. This post is going into my great ideas to copy file

 

[guhfluh]

Great news! Merry Christmas!

 

[67Straightsix]

Glad you got it sorted out

 

[xctasy]

Glad you got it sorted out

Me too. Fuel Injection with the right intake. Both Gus and 67Ss have seen the light.

Holley and Fitech have backed up the marketing bravado with great products but even better follow up. This is what the free market does. It forces the intelligent in liner modifier to be discerning and keep at it till they get the performance that a good V8 sometimes doesnt even get. Richard Holdener and thousands of Youtubers are just stunned when they see a small factory Mustang T code Ford six suddenely become a Ballistic six.

 

[gus91326]

Hey guys. Update on my car. I drove it with the Fitech a bit longer after my last post and ended breaking a ring land with the cast 2.3HSC pistons. I went back to looking at how to increase strength in the bottom end. As discussed elsewhere, I sourced 1JZ forged conrods and turned my crank down to fit. I then sourced a hybrid 200/1JZ piston with floating pins. With the engine back together I started playing with boost levels and seemed to be ok at 10lbs. Then I got a bad exhaust leak that was a result of cracked headers. I figured that the turbo hanging off the exhaust wasn't helping so I had to create a support for the turbo. Took it to the track last May and it ran great for 4 laps, but then started to have ignition issues. I've always felt that the intake making a hard 90* turn to the head was never ideal; you could see a pool of fuel at the bottom from the fuel separating from the air. It felt like the ecu was dumping in more fuel than needed all the time. So I decided to take the plunge and go full sequential injection. I got a Holley HP ECU, 4150 LS elbow and throttlebody (LOL), 34lb injectors, a Hyperspark distributor and CD box, and went to work. Since my car already had the EFI in-tank pump, it was (kind of) straightforward to wire everything up. I struggled a bit to get the tune, but got connected with a guy in Michigan that remoted in to my setup and got it running. This weekend was the first time I took it out and it already has way better transitory response than before. Plugs look better, and I took to about 11 PSI with no ill effects (I have 12 PSI springs in it).

I remember Mike had one of his heads set up for injection, which I believe went to the dude from VI. Does anyone know how many port injected 6s are out there?

 

[drag-200stang]

Good job, you did the right thing.

 

[Jmustang_65]

Awesome Job Gus. Great for you for being one of the first to do mpfi.

 

[rocklord]

Hey guys. Update on my car. I drove it with the Fitech a bit longer after my last post and ended breaking a ring land with the cast 2.3HSC pistons. I went back to looking at how to increase strength in the bottom end. As discussed elsewhere, I sourced 1JZ forged conrods and turned my crank down to fit. I then sourced a hybrid 200/1JZ piston with floating pins. With the engine back together I started playing with boost levels and seemed to be ok at 10lbs. Then I got a bad exhaust leak that was a result of cracked headers. I figured that the turbo hanging off the exhaust wasn't helping so I had to create a support for the turbo. Took it to the track last May and it ran great for 4 laps, but then started to have ignition issues. I've always felt that the intake making a hard 90* turn to the head was never ideal; you could see a pool of fuel at the bottom from the fuel separating from the air. It felt like the ecu was dumping in more fuel than needed all the time. So I decided to take the plunge and go full sequential injection. I got a Holley HP ECU, 4150 LS elbow and throttlebody (LOL), 34lb injectors, a Hyperspark distributor and CD box, and went to work. Since my car already had the EFI in-tank pump, it was (kind of) straightforward to wire everything up. I struggled a bit to get the tune, but got connected with a guy in Michigan that remoted in to my setup and got it running. This weekend was the first time I took it out and it already has way better transitory response than before. Plugs look better, and I took to about 11 PSI with no ill effects (I have 12 PSI springs in it).

I remember Mike had one of his heads set up for injection, which I believe went to the dude from VI. Does anyone know how many port injected 6s are out there?

Could you email me a copy of your Holley HP tune file?
I'm thinking of eventually turbocharging my six and already have a Holley HP setup for it.
As you said, it can be a bear to tune it properly and thought yours may give me a better place to start.

Thanks.

 

[gus91326]

Could you email me a copy of your Holley HP tune file?
I'm thinking of eventually turbocharging my six and already have a Holley HP setup for it.
As you said, it can be a bear to tune it properly and thought yours may give me a better place to start.

Thanks.

Sure- tell me where to send and I can forward it. I'm still tweaking with it, so it'll be a snapshot in time.

 

[xctasy]

Best wishes, man.
At the moment, not the first, but You are it, Gus!


1.Broncoitus had a 200 3300 Super Charged Port EFi, but it was parted out. Early Bronco, serpentine drive, Modular crank pulley, but both he and Mike W were screwed over by the parts supplier and the engine vanished.


2. My memory is hazy, because there are iron 200/250 log head EFi conversions on Ford Six, using Jeep or Holley HP parts; about five that have been discussed here. One turbo EFi is of course 67straightsix.


3. For Vintage Inlines and Classic Inlines Aluminum Small six heads, only 500 or so Aluminum heads have been sold, and a small fraction of those were port injected by the owners.


4.You are probably it, because 6i, the yellow and black with grey block 69 Mustang Mike built was never finished, and the 250 turbo EFi Hot Rod discussed was incomplete, as Mike W was by 2007 not well. Broncoitus is doing a 300 six at the moment.


5. The Does10s " Racing for a Cause" McLearren 62 Falcon Tudor got, IIRC, E85 injection through a Hogan intake on a Classic In lines headed Turbo 250, but I think Will and Kelly are happy to be enjoying life without six cylinder cars. He did a Fox SVO with EcoBoost 2.3 in mid 2014.


6. Early on, we tracked down 68 M code 250 2V iron heads, and a few of those were port injected. One Jeep 4.0 EFi conversion by board user bedtime.
Many Australian Cross flows EFi heads have been added to US 200 and 250s, or whole engines. MustangSix, 1157 Mike.

 

[65coupei6]

Gus you are always taking your build to the next level. Awesome work! One day I will have to come down to Fab Ford's again and check it out.

Actually, a long while back when Mike W. was still around. About 10 of us meet up during the show. We have to do that again.

 

[gus91326]

Best wishes, man.
At the moment, not the first, but You are it, Gus!


1.Broncoitus had a 200 3300 Super Charged Port EFi, but it was parted out. Early Bronco, serpentine drive, Modular crank pulley, but both he and Mike W were screwed over by the parts supplier and the engine vanished.


2. My memory is hazy, because there are iron 200/250 log head EFi conversions on Ford Six, using Jeep or Holley HP parts; about five that have been discussed here. One turbo EFi is of course 67straightsix.


3. For Vintage Inlines and Classic Inlines Aluminum Small six heads, only 500 or so Aluminum heads have been sold, and a small fraction of those were port injected by the owners.


4.You are probably it, because 6i, the yellow and black with grey block 69 Mustang Mike built was never finished, and the 250 turbo EFi Hot Rod discussed was incomplete, as Mike W was by 2007 not well. Broncoitus is doing a 300 six at the moment.


5. The Does10s " Racing for a Cause" McLearren 62 Falcon Tudor got, IIRC, E85 injection through a Hogan intake on a Classic In lines headed Turbo 250, but I think Will and Kelly are happy to be enjoying life without six cylinder cars. He did a Fox SVO with EcoBoost 2.3 in mid 2014.


6. Early on, we tracked down 68 M code 250 2V iron heads, and a few of those were port injected. One Jeep 4.0 EFi conversion by board user bedtime.
Many Australian Cross flows EFi heads have been added to US 200 and 250s, or whole engines. MustangSix, 1157 Mike.

Thanks X- I was hoping you'd chime in. I always appreciate your exhaustive knowledge on this.

If I'm the only one, I probably won't be for long. I know of another gentleman here in So Cal that got ahold of a VI head and is getting his head drilled for injectors. His car is running great so he's taking the slow boat on his build.

Last week I saw on Instagram that a guy with the handle of Engine Gremlin that is at the mockup stage. His setup looks like Matt Cox' old setup; I don't know if Matt is sponsoring him, but it looks like he's got some other press (Like Street or Track suspension) so I don't think I'll be alone for long.

Engine Gremlin on Instagram: "Damn she looks good! #enginegremlin #straightsix #ford #mustang #restomod #restoration #straight6 #1968mustang #classiccar #mustangsofinstagram #classicmuscle #musclecar #carsofinstagram #fordperformance #vintagecar #bu

Engine Gremlin shared a post on Instagram: "Damn she looks good! #enginegremlin #straightsix #ford #mustang #restomod #restoration #straight6 #1968mustang #classiccar #mustangsofinstagram #classicmuscle #musclecar #carsofinstagram #fordperformance #vintagecar #builtnotbought #DIY...

www.instagram.com

 

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