200ci Cam Opinions

[Briansshop]

The plan: New rebuilt head,current one is cracked at some exhaust bolts, header and exhaust upgrades. Holley Sniper and distributor. That's pretty much it. I'm might consider a T5 swap just for drivability. Going to pull the motor and do some cleaning/ painting when doing the head swap. Opinions on doing a cam change while I'm in there? Only looking for power from 1k to 4k,with priority at 2k. If I can pick up some power I'm for it. Worth the time/$$ or not?

 

[pmuller9]

The Holley Sniper and headers would do well with a cam change.

 

[Econoline]

You may as well. It will be well worth the effort so long as you get the right one for your plans, i.e. how you drive it and not get some huge one. For a daily driver I'd recommend a Schneider 248H or a 256H with an lsa of 112 if you have an A/T and like a smooth idle. With a manual you can probably get away with 110 and still have a good DD experience. Jerry will know best.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, X2, I would upgrade the cam and lifters. Get some good cam info in the tech section here. How many miles on the motor? I would think about rings and bearings. At least check some main and rod bearings for wear. Good luck

 

[Briansshop]

Not a daily driver, just a cruiser. Has a 2.77 trans atm. I'm ok with a rough idle,if it picks up a bit power where I'm looking for it. Not sure on the mileage, the odo was at 057** when I bought it,and the then,2nd owner said it was legit. Who knows, but the car is mint and the motor is solid, uses no oil. I plan on pulling the oil pan to have a look when it's out of the car.

Thanks for the replies,

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, what year is your car? There is a book we like called the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook, usually available from Vintageinlines.com. You should learn more about these engines and come up with a plan before buying anything. I should have mentioned in my first reply, and that in 1969 and up the carb opening was enlarged, so most guys want the later head. The later heads should be milled to decrease the combustion chamber volume. Good luck

 

[Briansshop]

Car is a 65, and I do have the "Handbook" . A lot of good info for sure.

 

[wakjob]

I highly recommend the T-5 swap if you can do it. I used Modern Driveline for the whole kit & caboodle, including their "Quick Time" bell housing which made things even easier. Even sprung for the cable clutch conversion kit, and I really like it. Those guys are fantastic and so helpful !!!

As far as cams go, after the "professional" engine builder forgot to put the thrust washer (wedding ring) on the cam, and I wiped out two thrust plates, and snapped the button off the Comp 'High Energy' 260/260 110 and had to tear everything apart twice... I went with the Clay Smith 264/264 110. She's a little lumpy, sounds killer!

Pulling about 16 in. of vacuum. And I'm not done tuning it in yet.

Note: I also have a Hedman Header, 32/36 Weber carb, + and HEI dizzy.

 

[chad]

"...Opinions on doing a cam change while I'm in there?...If I can pick up some power I'm for it. Worth the time/$$ or not?..."
modern cams R nice, just wondering if warrented - not a DD, '2nd car', probably not even need discs up frnt. I may not B clear on ur needs. Said 'pull 1 - 4K RPMs' sounds like any i6 to me...
How bout the all the incremental changes in the Handbook? Not happy, keep goin. Last few - carb then even rocker ratio? Or:

Classic Inlines

 

[Briansshop]

"...Opinions on doing a cam change while I'm in there?...If I can pick up some power I'm for it. Worth the time/$$ or not?..."
modern cams R nice, just wondering if warrented - not a DD, '2nd car', probably not even need discs up frnt. I may not B clear on ur needs. Said 'pull 1 - 4K RPMs' sounds like any i6 to me...
How bout the all the incremental changes in the Handbook? Not happy, keep goin. Last few - carb then even rocker ratio? Or:

Classic Inlines

?

 

[xctasy]

In my humble opinion, Go Sniper BBD 2bbl. With the money saved on not using the 1 bbl Sniper, buy a Clay Smith or Schneider or Howards cam in the 109 lobe center and 264 degree duration area. Keep your lift at the valve with 1.5 ratio rockers below 480 thou so you can save money on more readily available SBF valve springs and 4.0 OHV V6 Explorer retainers.

Best results with throttle Body EFi 's are when you have full mixture control to the front 3 and back 3 cylinders; and when you are free to use the better ignitions you desire. When we put in place cost saving restrictions first...we always spend more. It's okay to save dollars...vital in fact, but you actually have to build something that idles and lean cruises and is serviceable.
Any 1 bbl EFi with a narrowed group of options for ignitions means your idle and lean cruise and service aspects are restricted too. So too are your cam options.

The old Chysler/Dodge/Plymouth/AMC/Jeep Carter 2bbl fits the stock 1 bbl intake. It has to be slewed a little to fit the diagonsl studs all Ford Small sixes were born with. It then allows air flow without gooseneck bends that restrict fuel air mixture to each leg. Any modified Ford or GM style ignition will work if you discuss with the right people. Holley merchandise the 2bbl to suit all US market engines, from a little Pinto 2 liter to a big old 400 cube Mopar B block, and its only recently that the team attempted to restrict ignition system options with that 2 hole Throttle body injection.

If you go single injector Sniper EFi, the team at Holley will want you to use there ignition system as well. That adds cost beyond the book value of the conversion, and won't leave you any options for a better cam. On an i6 engine, intake mixture is important. So you'd be better off going a Vintage In lines head first.

As much as I respet and applaud Holley's tech people, you shouldnt restrick breathing on any in line six. Adding electronic injection without improving breathing or cam profile will hurt idle, lean cruise, and you'll spend more time trying to use adaptive tuning to get the idle/ cruise and ignition system in order.

The best witnesses to improving the awfull idle of our sixes were the sameguy and Mike1157. They went right to EDIS6 ignition using MegaJolt. The question they both asked was...what if all our six cylinder in line idle problems was just caused by ignition and Poor air fuel ratio. Both concluded...that the problems are fixed when a proper spark distribution system is used. Anything better than stock for air fuel ratio and spark control is a good first step. Then, any cam will work. Mike1157s 4.1 liter 250 cube car idled great with a 295 degree 525 lift cam with 230 degrees duration on a 115 lobe. center line

 

[wsa111]

In my humble opinion, Go Sniper BBD 2bbl. With the money saved on not using the 1 bbl Sniper, buy a Clay Smith or Schneider or Howards cam in the 109 lobe center and 264 degree duration area. Keep your lift at the valve with 1.5 ratio rockers below 480 thou so you can save money on more readily available SBF valve springs and 4.0 OHV V6 Explorer retainers.

Best results with throttle Body EFi 's are when you have full mixture control to the front 3 and back 3 cylinders; and when you are free to use the better ignitions you desire. When we put in place cost saving restrictions first...we always spend more. It's okay to save dollars...vital in fact, but you actually have to build something that idles and lean cruises and is serviceable.
Any 1 bbl EFi with a narrowed group of options for ignitions means your idle and lean cruise and service aspects are restricted too. So too are your cam options.

The old Chysler/Dodge/Plymouth/AMC/Jeep Carter 2bbl fits the stock 1 bbl intake. It has to be slewed a little to fit the diagonsl studs all Ford Small sixes were born with. It then allows air flow without gooseneck bends that restrict fuel air mixture to each leg. Any modified Ford or GM style ignition will work if you discuss with the right people. Holley merchandise the 2bbl to suit all US market engines, from a little Pinto 2 liter to a big old 400 cube Mopar B block, and its only recently that the team attempted to restrict ignition system options with that 2 hole Throttle body injection.

If you go single injector Sniper EFi, the team at Holley will want you to use there ignition system as well. That adds cost beyond the book value of the conversion, and won't leave you any options for a better cam. On an i6 engine, intake mixture is important. So you'd be better off going a Vintage In lines head first.

As much as I respet and applaud Holley's tech people, you shouldnt restrick breathing on any in line six. Adding electronic injection without improving breathing or cam profile will hurt idle, lean cruise, and you'll spend more time trying to use adaptive tuning to get the idle/ cruise and ignition system in order.

The best witnesses to improving the awfull idle of our sixes were the sameguy and Mike1157. They went right to EDIS6 ignition using MegaJolt. The question they both asked was...what if all our six cylinder in line idle problems was just caused by ignition and Poor air fuel ratio. Both concluded...that the problems are fixed when a proper spark distribution system is used. Anything better than stock for air fuel ratio and spark control is a good first step. Then, any cam will work. Mike1157s 4.1 liter 250 cube car idled great with a 295 degree 525 lift cam with 230 degrees duration on a 115 lobe. center line

The Clay Smith 264 cam has a very rough idle even with a 112 L/C.
I would give Jerry at Schneider a call for your cam choice.
I have no experience with Howard cams. Looks like they have some good profiles.
Lets get back to Clay Smith. In a conversation with the man who designs the masters said the original 264 had more duration @ .050. He stated he was going to decrease the duration @ .050" & grind a 2 degree advance into it. All other Clay Smiths cams are ground straight up.
What i'm saying is just don't purchase a Clay Smith 264 cam without knowing all the specs.
Right now there might be 3 different versions of the 264 cam.
Go Schneider.

 

[chad]

"...?..."
all beddah now?
mine was meant to say "U don't need much change if any - considering application."

 

[pmuller9]

I agree with NOT using a Clay Smith cam. I have my own reasons.

The Howards 280028-08 is a great low to midrange torque cam especially for a low compression engine.
It's a 263/263, 209/209 on a 108 LSA so it will have some low rpm lope.
.420" valve lift with a 1.5 ratio rocker.
Since headers will be used it will take advantage of the overlap and produce some really good mid range torque.

Howards cams and lifters have excellent quality.

Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft & Lifter Kit; 1963 - 1983 Ford 140-250 1200 to 4800 Howards Cams CL280028-08 | Howards Cams

www.howardscams.com

Howards Cams CL280028-08: Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft & Lifter Kit 1963-1983 Ford 140-250 - JEGS

This Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft & Lifter Kit from Howards Cams is designed for use with 1963 to 1983 Ford engines, from 140 to 250. This Kit includes 16 hydraulic flat tappet lifters.

www.jegs.com

 

[chad]

I'd like one w/tq from 800 to 2,500 RPMs !
;- )

 

[chad]

Sorry ifa jack we're on it (kinda)~

"...Which engine? 200 or 250?..."
the 250 ina bronk off rd ('69 sez tq hight is @1,500 RPMs)~

what's the specs ona cam card for that read?
want a Tq monster w/o a tire spin (loose stuff off rd)

 

[xctasy]

From the advent of the first Australian 155 hp gross 250 in 1971, two years later than the June 1968 debut in the USA unibody Ranchero, Ford Australia used the same 109 lobe center 256 degree 435 lift 185 degree at 50 thou cam on its 200 and 250's. In the US, Ford shared 200 and 250 cams for the first few years, then changed to a better cam on the 250. In 1991, the last 3.3 and 4.1 liter Falcon Cross flow Overhead Valve Utility still had the same profile cam as the 1971 250, with different lobe sequences to suit the Honda aluminum head. So Ford Australia used the same 109.5 LCA cam profile from 1971 to 1991 on 3.3s and 4.1s/ 200 and 250's. NO change. Despite head changes, compression changes due to going to unleaded gas and a 25% capacity difference, different gearboxes. Even the early 149 hp net 1983-1985 EFi 4.1 liters used the same cam duration, lobe lift and it ran Bosch LEII Pulsed Jetronic injection. It was the same base cam the 221 Ford V8 ran from 1962 in the USA, and tge early 302 Cleveland 2 bbl used from late 1971 in Australia. So Lobe center angle that works is near enough to 110 degrees on everything close to stock.

On the 135 hp OHC 3.2 and 160 hp 3.9 liter Throttle Body 2bbl EFi's for 1988 to 1991, plus the 186 hp EECIV Mutippoint, they all used the same kind of Windsor/Cleveland cam profile but it had a huge OHC follower, they still all had the same 109.5 degree Lobe split, and near too the same cam profile with 485 lift on intake, 260 degrees duration at lash, 453 thou lift on exhaust, 256 degrees duration at lash, 2:1 rocker ratios, barely more than 183 degrees duration at 50 thou.

See posts #5 and #7 "https://www.fordforums.com/threads/anyone-know-specs-of-stock-eb-cam.18790/"

 

[bmbm40]

I would agree with the T5 for drivability and really a performance increase in that the close ratio four speed keeps the motor in an rpm range better suited to the current requirement and the od gear lets you go faster when you want and relaxed cruising on the freeway. I noticed the five speed swap in my Bronco improved the driving experience quite a bit. Only thing is I miss the column shift.

 

[Briansshop]

I would agree with the T5 for drivability and really a performance increase in that the close ratio four speed keeps the motor in an rpm range better suited to the current requirement and the od gear lets you go faster when you want and relaxed cruising on the freeway. I noticed the five speed swap in my Bronco improved the driving experience quite a bit. Only thing is I miss the column shift.

I agree, and feel like the T5 would be the best thing to do for better driving . I'm not totally unhappy with the power the motor makes now, but like said,I'm going to R&R the head so I thought about the cam.

 

[bubba22349]

I agree with NOT using a Clay Smith cam. I have my own reasons.

The Howards 280028-08 is a great low to midrange torque cam especially for a low compression engine.
It's a 263/263, 209/209 on a 108 LSA so it will have some low rpm lope.
.420" valve lift with a 1.5 ratio rocker.
Since headers will be used it will take advantage of the overlap and produce some really good mid range torque.

Howards cams and lifters have excellent quality.

Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft & Lifter Kit; 1963 - 1983 Ford 140-250 1200 to 4800 Howards Cams CL280028-08 | Howards Cams

www.howardscams.com

Howards Cams CL280028-08: Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft & Lifter Kit 1963-1983 Ford 140-250 - JEGS

This Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft & Lifter Kit from Howards Cams is designed for use with 1963 to 1983 Ford engines, from 140 to 250. This Kit includes 16 hydraulic flat tappet lifters.

www.jegs.com

Hi pmuller9, what valve springs are used with that above Howard cam and what's the install height?