All Small Six SBC Valves in Small Six Head?

This relates to all small sixes
C

CutPortWeld

Hello, I am new here, and I am in the market for building a 250 inline six simply for the SBF Bellhousing and Flywheel/Flexplate Pattern, and I'm not completely sure that a 300 Six would fit inside the 1977 Granada even with the electric fan! (It is a puller fan, after-all)

I am looking to put 1.84" Intake valves, and 1.5" Exhaust valves, and I am concerned about the crazy length difference.

I understand that I can get the valve guides modified/replaced to allow for a 11/32" valve stem opening up more options for me valve-wise.

However, my main concern is the fact that the OAL for the inline 6 valves are around 4.260 inches, and I am concerned about the 4.911 length.

I am struggling to find valves with the head size, length, and stem diameter combination that would make this more "bolt-in", and it looks like my two options are to custom order from a valve manufacturer, or get the head and stem diameters that I would like, and get the length modified.
 
From past experience with these engines, Australian ones are very similar, no V8 valve will fit without cutting the stems down, this can be done, but you loose the hardened tip. Ive never been able to use any valve over 1.78 dia, even at this they are very close to the spark plug thread. The exhaust valve isnt so bad at 1.45 (289/302). Id settle for this valve size, the biggest issue with these heads is of course the dreadful intake "manifold" This is why the 250-2v head is so much better. People have cut holes in the side of the integral intake and run sidedraft carbs like the SU, two or three can work if big enough, minimum would be 1.75inchs. this would probably work better than a single great big hole cut in the original place.
 
Thank you for your reply!

I find that is the fun part about the US heads is figuring out how to work around the integral intake manifold.

I'll have to keep playing around. I would rather not lose the hardened tip.

1.75-1.78 valves aren't bad, but with what's available for me to pick up in a 2 hour radius, of course its the earlier 250 with the smaller log and the 1.65/1.38 combination, and I figured if I was going to the machine shop anyway that I would go "as big as I can."

I like the idea of using the 144/170 intake valve (1.46ish/1.52ish) for the exhaust valve.

Sounds like the best option would be to run a factory 1.75 on the intake and a factory 144/170 intake on the exhaust.
 
300 in a Granada is an intriguing and unique idea if it could fit. Might need a limited slip diff.
 
CutPortWeld said:
Thank you for your reply!

I find that is the fun part about the US heads is figuring out how to work around the integral intake manifold.

I'll have to keep playing around. I would rather not lose the hardened tip.

1.75-1.78 valves aren't bad, but with what's available for me to pick up in a 2 hour radius, of course its the earlier 250 with the smaller log and the 1.65/1.38 combination, and I figured if I was going to the machine shop anyway that I would go "as big as I can."

I like the idea of using the 144/170 intake valve (1.46ish/1.52ish) for the exhaust valve.

Sounds like the best option would be to run a factory 1.75 on the intake and a factory 144/170 intake on the exhaust.
Click to expand...
No, you cannot use an intake for for exhaust duty, the material wont take the heat, Exhaust valves are usually a heat resistant head friction welded to a steel stem. Only use an exhaust valve in an exhaust port. The intake valve is cooled by the cool intake charge flowing over it, the exhaust is not. Do use the bigger intake, if you can get a bigger exhaust valve, dont sweat it, its nowhere near as important as the intake.
 
X2 Yes I think that is true, using the 144 / 170 Intake Valve's as a bigger Exhaust Valve was a very common upgrade used by the old timers back in the day.
 
CutPortWeld said:
Hello, I am new here, and I am in the market for building a 250 inline six simply for the SBF Bellhousing and Flywheel/Flexplate Pattern, and I'm not completely sure that a 300 Six would fit inside the 1977 Granada even with the electric fan! (It is a puller fan, after-all).
Click to expand...
Hi CutPortWeld, welcome to the ford six Forum! Putting a 300 Six is pretty common in the early Falcon's, Comet's and Mustang's there are several of them on this site. The Granada has even more room so should be a piece of Cake. Here is a link to nitrousnick's 300 six install into a Mustang. Best of luck on your build. https://fordsix.com/threads/how-to-install-a-300-in-a-mustang-falcon.56067/#post-430473
 
bubba22349 said:
X2 Yes I think that is true, using the 144 / 170 Intake Valve's as a bigger Exhaust Valve was a very common upgrade used by the old timers back in the day.
Click to expand...
I would be very doubtfull on this, nobody is going to use expensive materials unless they have to. You might get away with it in a limited run drag car or a racer that you overhauled regularly, but for a street car that expects to be around for a while?
 
aussie7mains said:
I would be very doubtfull on this, nobody is going to use expensive materials unless they have to. You might get away with it in a limited run drag car or a racer that you overhauled regularly, but for a street car that expects to be around for a while?
Click to expand...
Sorry aussie7mains, but this is a fact and was indeed used not just for a few Drag Cars but for many street cars here in the old USA.
 
I almost hate to admit this, but long long time ago way before information tech, I looked for larger exhaust valves for my 200 at a local NAPA. Never saw the 144/170 sized valves and do not know why, but John Deere had some 5/16'' intake valves that were the diamater that I wanted. They were an inch too long. Had George Delorean shorten then. He flame tip hardened the tips.
OH, they were Inconel and hard chrome stem.
 
Thank all of you for your replies, insight, and everything! I haven't logged on in a few days, and haven't had the chance to reply to each and every one of you, but thank you!
 
bmbm40 said:
300 in a Granada is an intriguing and unique idea if it could fit. Might need a limited slip diff.
Click to expand...

I'm currently in the process of swapping in a Ford 8.8" out of a 2009 Ford Ranger with factory 4.11 gears. Sadly, I couldn't find the one that was 4.11 gears, disc brake, and limited slip from the factory, so I decided to just spring for an Eaton TruTrac, and a disc brake conversion kit.

Removed the old spring perches and strut mounts for weight savings, and welded in new spring perches, and I'm going to use the Ford 8" style Caltrac plates for when I install Caltrac bars, because the base plate for the leaf spring was also the bottom attachment point for the rear shocks, and now I don't have to weld any new shock mounts.

Waiting for my new-to-me rear axle assembly to get done at my buddy's shop, and I'll put her back in! Car is currently sitting with jack stands on the lift points without an engine nor a transmission.

Overall build idea for the car is:

-Aforementioned rear-end

-Rebuilt and strengthened AODE with standalone controller and TV Cable System Delete, and custom Torque Converter

-Some kind of wicked inline 6 build (not Barra, because I can find 200's, 250's, and 300's easier), because although it's a factory V8 car, and I have SBF parts laying around... I'd honestly rather just sell off my SBF stuff for a loss, and go back to modifying factory parts and castings. I'm trying to go with a more "European" themed engine build to pair with the Mercedes E-Class that the Granada was meant to compete with.

-Keeping bench seat and column shifter for old-school luxury car feel

-Getting the car repainted factory Dove Gray with some added Silver holographic flake, and then getting smoothie steel wheels painted the same with chrome trim ring and chrome wheel cap.

I would love a 6-1 header rather than run-of-the-mill running the split-style header.


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CutPortWeld said:
I'm currently in the process of swapping in a Ford 8.8" out of a 2009 Ford Ranger with factory 4.11 gears. Sadly, I couldn't find the one that was 4.11 gears, disc brake, and limited slip from the factory, so I decided to just spring for an Eaton TruTrac, and a disc brake conversion kit.

Removed the old spring perches and strut mounts for weight savings, and welded in new spring perches, and I'm going to use the Ford 8" style Caltrac plates for when I install Caltrac bars, because the base plate for the leaf spring was also the bottom attachment point for the rear shocks, and now I don't have to weld any new shock mounts.

Waiting for my new-to-me rear axle assembly to get done at my buddy's shop, and I'll put her back in! Car is currently sitting with jack stands on the lift points without an engine nor a transmission.

Overall build idea for the car is:

-Aforementioned rear-end

-Rebuilt and strengthened AODE with standalone controller and TV Cable System Delete, and custom Torque Converter

-Some kind of wicked inline 6 build (not Barra, because I can find 200's, 250's, and 300's easier),

I would love a 6-1 header rather than run-of-the-mill running the split-style header.
Click to expand...
Well you are in luck Scott Drake just so happens to make a nice 6 into 1 Header that fits the Ford 170, 200, & 250 Small Six's

Available at many different sources, here is one of them. https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/headers_and_exhaust_manifolds/all_headers/parts/C3OZ-9430-H1
 
CutPortWeld said:
I'm currently in the process of swapping in a Ford 8.8" out of a 2009 Ford Ranger with factory 4.11 gears. Sadly, I couldn't find the one that was 4.11 gears, disc brake, and limited slip from the factory, so I decided to just spring for an Eaton TruTrac, and a disc brake conversion kit.

Removed the old spring perches and strut mounts for weight savings, and welded in new spring perches, and I'm going to use the Ford 8" style Caltrac plates for when I install Caltrac bars, because the base plate for the leaf spring was also the bottom attachment point for the rear shocks, and now I don't have to weld any new shock mounts.

Waiting for my new-to-me rear axle assembly to get done at my buddy's shop, and I'll put her back in! Car is currently sitting with jack stands on the lift points without an engine nor a transmission.

Overall build idea for the car is:

-Aforementioned rear-end

-Rebuilt and strengthened AODE with standalone controller and TV Cable System Delete, and custom Torque Converter

-Some kind of wicked inline 6 build (not Barra, because I can find 200's, 250's, and 300's easier), because although it's a factory V8 car, and I have SBF parts laying around... I'd honestly rather just sell off my SBF stuff for a loss, and go back to modifying factory parts and castings. I'm trying to go with a more "European" themed engine build to pair with the Mercedes E-Class that the Granada was meant to compete with.

-Keeping bench seat and column shifter for old-school luxury car feel

-Getting the car repainted factory Dove Gray with some added Silver holographic flake, and then getting smoothie steel wheels painted the same with chrome trim ring and chrome wheel cap.

I would love a 6-1 header rather than run-of-the-mill running the split-style header.


-
Click to expand...
I really like your build plan. I remember the Granada tv commercials in the 70s where they showed various styling details such as the grille etc compared with the Mercedes and the voice over asked "Can you really tell the difference?". Classic Ford marketing fluff.
 
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