M90 200 Econo Build

[kjacobson351]

Hi all.

I poked my head in around about 6 months ago asking about supercharging the old 200. Since then I have swapped out the old crash box 3 speed on my econo to a 3.03 and I came across and installed a 9 inch out of 68 mustang with 31 spline axles and a limited slip diff. I now feel comfortable to start hot rodding the 200 now that the rest of the drivetrain is bullet proof.

I also managed to bring back a Gen 5 M90 off off a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP in my checked baggage coming back to Japan after a business trip in the states. I've been building this thing in my head forever but now I finally have the parts in hand. This will be a very slow process and I don't really even expect to be ready to use for the next year or two. But I will be posting here when I make progress here and there.

I have been doing a lot of 3d modeling and 3d printing and have been dabbling in casting aluminum so hopefully I will be able to incorporate some of those skills on this build.

Goals: Snappy and unique 200 build for my nearly daily driven 1961 Econoline + blower whine. Peak power is not the goal, in fact despite the plans to supercharge this I want to error on the side of safe because parts are very expensive to ship over here. I just want to have some fun and make some cool noises.

Fuel: I plan on buying a Holley 2300 Super Sniper ( I guess the regular 2bbl sniper is not ideal for draw through boost)

Intake: This is where I am somewhat stuck. I have a small log head. I was planning on installing 3 2300 flanges on the top of my log to give a sturdy base to mount an intermediary M90 manifold but I am not seeing any small log heads with a true 2v conversion. Has it been done? Can it be done?

I would also like to run 3 2300 flanges on my log because if the blower does not work out I can always cap off the side flanges and run the sniper directly on the middle flange.

Worst case scenario I can mill off the whole side of the head like in the May 1960 Hot Rod magazine but I really do not want to make my own header.

Blower Drive: I'm thinking about getting a universal serpentine pulley and mount it to my balancer with the 3 pulley bolts, or running a later model ozzy serpentine style balancer and running all of my accessories off of that. (Water pump may be tricky...)

Here are some pics of the blower, the rig, and what I am thinking as far as mounting the m90. Just hung up on whether or not I can get 3 2300 flanges on a small log at this point.

P.S be prepared to see this thread resurrected every now and again.

 

[pmuller9]

The supercharger may be able to be mounted on the opposite side and run a pipe from the supercharger’s outlet over to the intake manifold inlet.
One of the members here is doing it that way on a 300 six with a M112

 

[kjacobson351]

The supercharger may be able to be mounted on the opposite side and run a pipe from the supercharger’s outlet over to the intake manifold inlet.
One of the members here is doing it that way on a 300 six with a M112

I have thought about that a little but in any case its going to cause a bulge in my dog house. I am willing to sacrifice part of my passenger seat but I would like to keep my seat full width. Would be nice to keep the blower away from the manifold heat though.

 

[Firepower354]

Looks like you have a solid start, but are you certain that the whoosh/whistle of a turbo wouldn't be just as fun?
A J-pipe under the oil pan, up the other side to the turbo, boost pipe crossing the valve cover to a blow-thru hat on a Super Sniper 2V
Less log work, no tunnel mods, no drive to sort, etc. Other hurdles, no doubt, but seems simpler and less intrusive/altering.
Even a simple adapter hanging off the stock exhaust would suffice.

A later squarish log might be easier. https://fordsix.com/ci/LogMods.html

I'd suspect that three full 5200 bores won't fit, but slots of some size, tapering up to the 2V flanges should still be a benefit.
.
The exhaust part need not be cut off for a log-less intake.

&

Kicking the extra fumes out, without the header hassle

FORD six 144 170 221 200 250 Dual outlet cast iron exhaust header AS0017-2V | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

Ford early falcon, mustang and cortina twin outlet exhaust manifold.This model only fits engines fitted with a 2V Ford cylinder head, the AS0017-2V suits the 2V cylinder heads with removable intake manifolds only. Made in Australia by Aussiespeed,the cast iron exhaust header suits the 2V heads...

www.aussiespeedshop.com

 

[kjacobson351]

Looks like you have a solid start, but are you certain that the whoosh/whistle of a turbo wouldn't be just as fun?
A J-pipe under the oil pan, up the other side to the turbo, boost pipe crossing the valve cover to a blow-thru hat on a Super Sniper 2V
Less log work, no tunnel mods, no drive to sort, etc. Other hurdles, no doubt, but seems simpler and less intrusive/altering.
Even a simple adapter hanging off the stock exhaust would suffice.

A later squarish log might be easier. https://fordsix.com/ci/LogMods.html

I'd suspect that three full 5200 bores won't fit, but slots of some size, tapering up to the 2V flanges should still be a benefit.
.
The exhaust part need not be cut off for a log-less intake.

&

Kicking the extra fumes out, without the header hassle

FORD six 144 170 221 200 250 Dual outlet cast iron exhaust header AS0017-2V | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

Ford early falcon, mustang and cortina twin outlet exhaust manifold.This model only fits engines fitted with a 2V Ford cylinder head, the AS0017-2V suits the 2V cylinder heads with removable intake manifolds only. Made in Australia by Aussiespeed,the cast iron exhaust header suits the 2V heads...

www.aussiespeedshop.com

Turbo builds are definitely cool but I just want to do something a little bit different(er). A while back there was a guy on Ebay who had a draw through turbo kit FOR the econo for sale fore a very reasonable price but I decided I wanted to go the supercharging route. Easiar for sure but I know what I want to do. (The "how" is kicking my ass though)

Square head...I wish I had one and they are fortune in shipping alone to send one to Japan. I have 2 small log heads here already. 1 on the longblock I bought and sent here and the old one that was on my old engine. For some reason I was stuck on using the 2300 flanges as is but you are right, I can model a base that will fit the log and smoothly taper it up to what I need. 3d print it and cast it. I will consider that for sure.

The more I think about it, I'm thinking about milling off the hole log including exhaust flanges and just going the hot rod magazine route. I'll need to give the article another read but after they milled it hey made a plate they attatched to the head where the new custom intake and exhuast could be bolted to. I'm wondering how they attached that plate. Did they simply tap into the block and seal with an expoxy or did they braze the thing on?

BTW I have watched all of those videos already more times than I can count.

 

[pmuller9]

The more I think about it, I'm thinking about milling off the hole log including exhaust flanges and just going the hot rod magazine route. I'll need to give the article another read but after they milled it hey made a plate they attatched to the head where the new custom intake and exhuast could be bolted to. I'm wondering how they attached that plate. Did they simply tap into the block and seal with an expoxy or did they braze the thing on?

Here is a more recent intake and exhaust manifold installation on a 200 head.
Read through the thread at least a couple pages..

turbo 200 build

I have my intake and headers mocked up on the engine. I'm going a little different direction than most people on the forum, so I'm posting some pictures of the build so far. https://imageshack.com/i/pa6TIawvj https://imageshack.com/i/p311VtSBj https://imageshack.com/i/p3Ogt7PCj The head has...

fordsix.com

 

[bubba22349]

The more I think about it, I'm thinking about milling off the hole log including exhaust flanges and just going the hot rod magazine route. I'll need to give the article another read but after they milled it hey made a plate they attatched to the head where the new custom intake and exhuast could be bolted to. I'm wondering how they attached that plate. Did they simply tap into the block and seal with an expoxy or did they braze the thing on?

If you really study those old pictures in the Hot Rod magazine articles you will see that they only would cut the intake Log off the head and it was cut in a particular location for a reason. Then the plate was fitted in this position this was so that a Hillborn mechanical Fuel Injection unit could be bolted on to that plate. I am not saying that you can't use that same technique to install a custom carb intake however you might not want to cut the intake ports back quite as far as what they did. Search to find pictures of the 250 Australian 2V heads to look at and study, this would be the better intake flange location to copy and then you could even use one of the Australian or C. I. / V. I. Aluminum head intakes to bolt right on. Yes back then those plates were Brazed on (and that is still is a good way or better is to Heli Ark it) there was't any good epoxy avaiable to the general public to my knowledge before the 1970's or so. Also there isn't any good reason to be cutting off any of the orginal exhaust port flange it won't help you improve any thing plus then you can't use any of the currently made Headers or Exhaust manafolds. Best of luck on your build.

 

[kjacobson351]

If you really study those old pictures in the Hot Rod magazine articles you will see that they only would cut the intake Log off the head and it was cut in a particular location for a reason. Then the plate was fitted in this position this was so that a Hillborn mechanical Fuel Injection unit could be bolted on to that plate. I am not saying that you can't use that same technique to install a custom carb intake however you might not want to cut the intakes ports back quite as far as they did. Search to find pictures of the 250 Australian 2V head to look at and study this would be the better intake flange location to copy and then you could even use one of the Australian or C. I. / V. I. Aluminum head intakes to bolt right on. Yes back then those plates were Brazed on (and that still is a good way or better is to Heli Ark it) there was't any good epoxy avaiable to the general public to my knowledge before the 1970's or so. Also there isn't any good reason to be cutting off any of the orginal exhaust port flange it won't help you improve any thing plus then you can't use any of the currently made Headers or Exhaust manafolds. Best of luck on your build.

Hi Bubba,

Ideally I would like to just mill off the log and keep the exhaust ports as they are so I can use after market headers be able to just buy gaskets. However to me it does look like in the hot rod article that they almost completely completely milled off the exhaust flanges. You can see the bottom threads that hold the exhaust manifold on are half way there but the top ones are completely missing. The stock head has the exhaust flanges angled down and these look like they are flush with the face of the milled off intake.

Looking at the videos of the guy who hacked off this log by hand, he saved his exaust flanges but with the exhaust flanges in place it doesnt look like you could get a machined face where the log used to be. So he just brazed tubes to his intake runners. I do not have a mill myself so I am at the mercy of whoever I have do it.

I'm bringing the head, the blower, and some the 2300 flange to my friends shop tonight to see if we can't make a new game plan now that I have most of the major puzzle pieces in hand now.

 

[kjacobson351]

Here is a more recent intake and exhaust manifold installation on a 200 head.
Read through the thread at least a couple pages..

turbo 200 build

I have my intake and headers mocked up on the engine. I'm going a little different direction than most people on the forum, so I'm posting some pictures of the build so far. https://imageshack.com/i/pa6TIawvj https://imageshack.com/i/p311VtSBj https://imageshack.com/i/p3Ogt7PCj The head has...

fordsix.com

I've read through some of that thread several times but as I usually browse at work I almost always have images turned off. After taking a looky loo at some of the images posted there it will definitely be a great resource. Thank you.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi kjacobson351, I just remembered that Aussie Speed makes a nice Super Charger Intake Manifold for the 250 Australian 2V head these work with the M90, you will see that they also make severial carb intakes. https://www.aussiespeedshop.com/ford-6-performance-aussiespeed/
Perhaps it will help give you and your friend some more ideas in doing your head mod's. Best of luck

 

[bubba22349]

In one of site members Xctasy's posts (the second from the top) from severial years ago there is a good picture of one the Aussie 250 2V head's and the different intakes. https://fordsix.com/threads/oz-2v-250-what-carby-also-what-about-the-linkage.76867/#post-591636

 

[Firepower354]

Turbo builds are definitely cool but I just want to do something a little bit different(er). A while back there was a guy on Ebay who had a draw through turbo kit FOR the econo for sale fore a very reasonable price but I decided I wanted to go the supercharging route. Easiar for sure but I know what I want to do. (The "how" is kicking my ass though)

Square head...I wish I had one and they are fortune in shipping alone to send one to Japan. I have 2 small log heads here already. 1 on the longblock I bought and sent here and the old one that was on my old engine. For some reason I was stuck on using the 2300 flanges as is but you are right, I can model a base that will fit the log and smoothly taper it up to what I need. 3d print it and cast it. I will consider that for sure.

The more I think about it, I'm thinking about milling off the hole log including exhaust flanges and just going the hot rod magazine route. I'll need to give the article another read but after they milled it hey made a plate they attatched to the head where the new custom intake and exhuast could be bolted to. I'm wondering how they attached that plate. Did they simply tap into the block and seal with an expoxy or did they braze the thing on?

BTW I have watched all of those videos already more times than I can count.

I didn't realize you were in japan. I've shipped a lot of similar weight items to Europe and Australia, and $315 or so is the tag. Lots, for an old bit of iron... May be cheaper to get an Aussie head and adapt to the US-spec block?

But, running what'cha brung, it does look like there's more area to attach by milling the whole port side away, perpendicular to the deck.

 

[kjacobson351]

Hello all. Small update.

My 3.03 is apart on my bench because it was making an aweful noise. All the needle bearings on the countershaft have a big flat spot. Parts to fix it are in the mail now.

I cleaned up my log head to inquire about milling and took it all apart. I honestly have never given it a close look before. I didn't realize how small the valves were. There is still the question of whether I can only mill off the intake and preserve the ports and in any case there will need to be braizing.

Though I have heard of the crossflow head before I always considered the swap insurmountable for me but after reading the swap article again and again it honestly doesnt seem that bad. Then I actually started looking for heads on gumtree and I had no idea how filthy cheap they were! Yeah the shipping is going to cost a fair bit but I was expecting them to cost as much or more than an iron 2v.

Is there a reason I see almost no one doing this conversion?

I'm talking to a guy now with a Pre EFI head/intake/extractor combo for 100 AUD. Is there a particular head I should be looking for if I go this route? The combustion chambers seem pretty small, around 42cc? from what I was able to find. with mild boost are over the counter pistons even an option with this head?

 

[powerband]

'before moving to a centrifugal SC setup, I picked up a Pontiac Roots type SC and did some research and breadboarding with it.


ideas from the research files . . '







carbd' Draw-thru M60 on a slant six

.

 

[kjacobson351]

I think I've come across all of those pictures at one time or another.

I'm still talking with the guy with the crossflow head in Oz. One think I'd like to confirm before I commit is if the Australian crossflow camshaft will work with the US style distributor. Looking and reading around I've seen that there is not a lot of room between the intake and the distributor which leaves limited choices. Since I will need to make a custom manifold anyway I can angle runner #1 up and away and hopefully have enough room to run a hyperspark distributor so I can control timing with the sniper.

I've read that I need to use a crossflow cam, so I just need to know if that will work with a hyperspark designed for american small 6s.

 

[bubba22349]

HI kjacbson351, yes with one of the Aussie Crossflow head swaps you will need a Aussie crossflow cam Crow Cam's has severial custom grinds. On any of the 200 short blocks you are very limited on the Distribitor height that you can fit with the Crossflow intake hanging over the top. You can use a stock point type Distribor, a DuraSpark I, or a DuraSpark II with the shorter cap from a DuraSpark I, or a custom made Crab Style Distribitor Cap in any of the 1965 up 200 six'es (there was also an Austrailian Bosh Electronic Distribitor that will only fit in the very early US 200 six blocks made in 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2) I don't remember if you said what year 200 your working with. I don't know the specs yet nor have I seen one of Holley HyperSpark distributors to know if that will work. The DUI and other HEI Clones for sure won't fit since they are much taller in height. In this below link if you haven't seen it yet are all the details of doing the block and head mod's to fit an Aussie Crossflow head onto a 200 or 250 six short block. Best of luck

Aussie Crossflow Head Swap Onto A 200 or 250 US Ford Six Short Block

Classic Inlines - 250 Cross Flow head swap

 

[kjacobson351]

I took some pictures and aligned them the best i can so I can compare them. The hyperspark looks to be a fair bit smaller than the HEI/DUI but probably bigger than a duraspark. Hopefully with an upward swept intake runner I can fit the hyperspark because I would like to use holleys boost retard feature.

my 200 is a '66 by the way.

 

[bubba22349]

Thats great a 1966 block gives you all the options. Their distributor looks like its real short and if used with a 90 degree plug wire ends could be just about right. Maybe you could call or email them to find out the height of it. Here is a link to some pictures of the DS II that site member wsa111 recurves and it shows the height without the cap as well. https://fordsix.com/threads/rebuilt...-engine-with-9-5-or-higher-compression.81821/

The stock Ford point distributor you probably have is also the same height as the DS I or the DS II with the shorter DS I cap on it. Aussie Speed also has a Super Charger intake manifold to fit the Crossflow Head you might get some ideas from. Best of luck

Aussie Speed Super Charger Crossflow Intake

Ford Manifold alloy head 250 4.1 cross flow supercharger intake | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

falcon and cortina Ford 250 supercharger kit this old school style roots supercharger system made by Weiand is based on the GM353 supercharger blown crossflow

www.aussiespeedshop.com

 

[kjacobson351]

Well, after thinking about what I was going to do and how I was going to do it I realized that in the midst of thinking about it I hadn't done anything. I saw a post about on an eaton group that I follow and saw a guy who successfully mated an m90 to the single barrel opening and it was enough motivation for me to get cutting. I did all of this with a makita grinder and a mini die grinder.

I decided to use the stock 66 spare head instead of doing a crossflow conversion purely for logistical reasons.

I will see if I can get someone to mill the intake runners flat but the center exhaust ports are in the way and I don't know if it can be done. I will probably braze some some pipes on to the intake runners and then weld a flange to the other end so that I can redesign/ play around with other ways of induction if this M90 business doesn't work out well. I will just keep plonking away at this no plans to finish it in the short term.

 

[bubba22349]

Curious why you cut the Intake ports down so far below the exhaust flange. This is how Bill Strope did the 144 Head back in mid 1959 to be able to install the Hillborn Fuel Injection system. I am glad to see your working on it again and you can certainly make it work for your M90 intake install. best of luck.