If accessories could kill… MPG

[aussie7mains]

We use all SI units totally, so joules, watts, etcetc, its much simpler to go from joules to watts. When i did the dyno work of course we only work in NM and Kw, all appliances and HVAC units are rated in Kw. I only have single phase power at my home, but the feed in fuses are rated at 100a, so there is plenty available. My previous home in Western Australia had a 3 phase feed to serve a large A?C unit that was ducted to do the whole home. It also had a 3 phase bore pump for the lawns. Most modern homes here only have single phase. I have a 4kw solar system split into two sets of panels on facing ne, and one sw, I have seen 5kw from this on a couple of occasions, but generally i get 2.5 or so. Ive averaged 10kw/h per day over the 8 years its been installed. About 27% of homes in Australia have rooftop solar, one of the worlds highest per capita uptakes, and rising quite rapidly now that power is in the range of 40c/kwh. Some outback towns have diesel fired generators still, but thats soon to go fully renewables. We have gone far of the original track, I hope thats Ok, its interesting stuff IMO.

 

[Frank]

We use all SI units totally, so joules, watts, etcetc, its much simpler to go from joules to watts. When i did the dyno work of course we only work in NM and Kw, all appliances and HVAC units are rated in Kw. I only have single phase power at my home, but the feed in fuses are rated at 100a, so there is plenty available. My previous home in Western Australia had a 3 phase feed to serve a large A?C unit that was ducted to do the whole home. It also had a 3 phase bore pump for the lawns. Most modern homes here only have single phase. I have a 4kw solar system split into two sets of panels on facing ne, and one sw, I have seen 5kw from this on a couple of occasions, but generally i get 2.5 or so. Ive averaged 10kw/h per day over the 8 years its been installed. About 27% of homes in Australia have rooftop solar, one of the worlds highest per capita uptakes, and rising quite rapidly now that power is in the range of 40c/kwh. Some outback towns have diesel fired generators still, but thats soon to go fully renewables. We have gone far of the original track, I hope thats Ok, its interesting stuff IMO.

It is good stuff, and not off topic, which was efficiency and parasitic loss. The electric grid and it's design is as important to us as locomotion, if not more so. I'm amazed at the careless take-it-for-granted mentality of . . well, nearly everybody, over the incredible blessing the supply of steady electric power is, and the machines that generate it, and the people who provide it 24/7.

 

[Bronctopia]

It is good stuff, and not off topic, which was efficiency and parasitic loss. The electric grid and it's design is as important to us as locomotion, if not more so. I'm amazed at the careless take-it-for-granted mentality of . . well, nearly everybody, over the incredible blessing the supply of steady electric power is, and the machines that generate it, and the people who provide it 24/7.

An utility EE relative of mine once gave me this pearl of wisdom:
"Everybody complains about the Power Company until they have to BE the power company.”

A situation I find myself in regularly once or twice a year. Usually in the worst possible pipe-bursting weather.

 

[Lazy JW]

Automatic trans these days are more efficient and some even surpass manual trans (or so they say)...

There is no way the intrinsic mechanical efficiency can be be superior to a manual; modern automatics can beat manual transmissions on gas mileage by utilizing superior shift controls that keep the engine in the best economy range, something that is extremely difficult to accomplish manually.

 

[Lazy JW]

... If you were really serious about economy you would be driving a manual trans 1000kg vehicle with a small diesel, and no AC. The pommes are masters at this.

Yup.
The same concept applies to electric cars; if they were really serious about 'saving the environment' we would see them building basic transportation EV's, not the super-duper high performance overpriced non-renewable junk jam-packed with whistles and bells being foisted upon the unwitting populace.

 

[Lazy JW]

Nikola Tesla developed alternating current (AC) which was in the late 19th century, he invented 3-phase 240V AC. His concept was to combine three phases of power to account for voltage fluctuations. By Tesla's calculations and testing, 60 cycles per second was the most efficient power supply frequency. Also at that time there was also the Big Battle over the type of power that was going to be used for the first Power Grids and which would be the best. Mainly this was by Tesla and Edison over using Tesla’s AC power or Edison’s DC power. Edison tried to show that AC was much more dangerous using up to 750 volts to publicly electrocute many animals from Dogs and Cats to even a Horse and Elephant. In the end Tesla’s AC system won by being far more efficient in transmitting power longer distances without having as much Voltage losses. However Tesla also did compromise some to lower the Voltage to 110 volts and 60Hz to work with the existing 110 volt Edison devices that were being made as well as for safety. Europe even started out by mirroring this original US standard of 110V/60 Hz., however after World War II, they switched over to the 220V/50 Hz, even though their higher power at the lower 50 Hz. frequency is up to 20 times less efficient, I have always wondered why they did that. Our current 120 volt / 60Hz. Standard was set back in in 1967.

Pacific DC Intertie

The 1-Million volt DC powerlines running from Oregon to Los Angeles.

alcpress.org

The DC line carrying a million volts from The Dalles Oregon to Los Angeles somewhat validates Tesla's theory.

 

[PSIG]

How about switching to an electric fan to avoid the parasitic loss there?

Parasitic losses are the enemy for any type of fan system. OEMs initially went to electric only for ability to use transverse engines, as e-fan costs were high. What they found was a greater ability to manipulate operation to fight parasitic losses, than the shrouds, belts and clutches of mechanical fans.

The net result was generally greater fan air flow with mechanical along with somewhat greater parasitic losses, and only a clutch to engage when it was hot in order to increase efficiency. Many HD applications such as trucks still use mechanical today for the relatively high power for flow available. This went a long way, but electric operation could be manipulated further for greater gains, beneficial to economy and emissions regulations. E-fans became an OEM tool to meet regulations, more-so than a way to effectively cool engines. But now we can benefit from both ends of that knowledge spectrum to meet our cooling requirements, as our primary concern.

To balance this for each our own goals of cooling, efficiency, cost, etc, we need to understand the pros and cons of each system. The is no "X is always better" answer. To compound this issue, information and design are complex when creating a "new" cooling system, and the "tuning" of that system to get what we want - making success a bit harder to reach reliably. Just a belt-drive fan doesn't mean optimal cooling, and just an e-fan doesn't mean improved economy. If you want to change from what you have, you should know why and how to get there… to get there. It's not difficult, but takes more than a credit card to do it well.

 

[InlineDave87]

Hey guys, heres another test done recently on how much parasitic loss accessories can be on an engine.

 

[xctasy]

Hey guys, heres another test done recently on how much parasitic loss accessories can be on an engine.

Exactly 4.6%, or 19 HP in that 404 HP gross combination.

 

[InlineDave87]

Exactly 4.6%, or 19 HP in that 404 HP gross combination

Mind you thats also at peak hp/WOT. It showed less the lower the RPM. He did also state there was no load on the alternator or PS Pump.

 

[InlineDave87]

So i learned something new today. I have had my AC turned off since the summer when i figured it was killing 5mpg for me. Well even with my AC off, the clutch went out on me which makes me think either the “brand new” ac compressor was starting to lock up or the clutch itself just went bad. Im leaning to a bad install on the compressor. Ive seen AC eat up 2-3 mpg at most but not 5. But yea didnt know the ac clutch/compressor can go out even if youre not using it. Took me about 4 trips to the parts store to find a belt good enough to bypass the ac. Magic number was 88 1/8”. 88” even probably would have been better but im done running back and forward for just a little bit better results. I guess ill see if my economy picks up even more from here.