ECU Recommendations

StarDiero75

StarDiero75

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Howdy guys!

This is my 2nd post down under now. So I am hopefully getting a 84DA 250 crossflow and I'd like to stick with multiport injection as opposed to carburetor (carby lol). What ECU do you all recommend I use?
I plan to do the 200 long rods, ACL pistons, 14650 crow cam, I'd like to do coil on plug but I am ok with not using it but it does need to be electronic ignition, port the hell out of the head and upsize the valves as necessary, headers (still trying to find long tube dual output but can only find shorty) and quite possibly a supercharger if I want more power. I currently have a 2V converted 200 that I have a Holley 2300 Sniper on. Would running this on a carb manifold be just as good? The multiport EFI just looks like a much better design, but obviously this would be the easiest route

Lemme know what you all think.

Thanks!
 
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You cant get the ACL pistons any more, they closed. Coil on plug is a bit of an ask, especially when the stock Bosch works so well. The big valve heads are 1.84 1.54 already, I doubt you would get anything bigger in the chamber, the cam you quote would be just, streetable in a manual trans car, The 200 rods on 250 crank is for racers looking for the last 2% of power, not worth the cost IMO, even IF you get the pistons. You can always make your own headers, for street use something low restriction is all thats needed, tuned length only works in unsilenced applications, check out what the like of BMW and Mercedes has on their better than 1bhp/Ci, cast iron manifolds! The EFI manifold is OK, its designed for falcons and might not fit into the pre 65 falcons or Mustangs, Aussiespeed has nice 4 barrel manifolds. for ultimate power Weber DCOEs is what you need. XRglen found here claimed he had a 365bhp crossflow and I think he was using a single 4 barrel manifold. The Holley sniper 2300 looks to be good for 350bhp, I doubt you will get to that with the stuff your suggesting, Being a throttle body, it has no venturis that restrict airflow, its just two big holes when full open. The throttles look to be about 45mm, which is ample for your engine. Id say the 4 barrel versions would be overkill.
 
StarDiego75,
I believe that MustangSix determined the EFI banana intake doesn't flow sufficiently for high horsepower on the 250; it works fine on a 200 displacement. Aussies use large 4Bbls on Cain or Aussiespeed 4Bbl manifolds to achieve their HP numbers (along with porting, higher compression, large cams, and magic); they like their C1 heads.

The original ECU for the Crossflow used a flapper type MAF which is a BIG restriction and is basically trash. A modern aftermarket ECU would be best. You can then run coil-near-plug ignition; use a toothed wheel on the balancer and a modified crank sensor from a 2.3L four or 3.8 six, or place a magnet on the cam sprocket with pickup on the chain cover (see Motor Trend 225 Slant Six build).

Pacemaker makes a very good header for the Crossflow (PH4470), but I haven't found anyone selling them that ship to the US. Here is a vendor who sells a long tube header who ships to the US:
www.ebay.com

Headers / Extractors for Ford Falcon XC-XF 4.1L Alloy Head Crossflow (X-Flo) | eBay

FORD FALCON XC-XF ALLOY HEAD 6CYL HEADERS. Headers to suit Ford Falcon XC-XF 6cyl 4.1L Alloy Head.
www.ebay.com
 
aussie7mains said:
You cant get the ACL pistons any more, they closed. Coil on plug is a bit of an ask, especially when the stock Bosch works so well. The big valve heads are 1.84 1.54 already, I doubt you would get anything bigger in the chamber, the cam you quote would be just, streetable in a manual trans car, The 200 rods on 250 crank is for racers looking for the last 2% of power, not worth the cost IMO, even IF you get the pistons. You can always make your own headers, for street use something low restriction is all thats needed, tuned length only works in unsilenced applications, check out what the like of BMW and Mercedes has on their better than 1bhp/Ci, cast iron manifolds! The EFI manifold is OK, its designed for falcons and might not fit into the pre 65 falcons or Mustangs, Aussiespeed has nice 4 barrel manifolds. for ultimate power Weber DCOEs is what you need. XRglen found here claimed he had a 365bhp crossflow and I think he was using a single 4 barrel manifold. The Holley sniper 2300 looks to be good for 350bhp, I doubt you will get to that with the stuff your suggesting, Being a throttle body, it has no venturis that restrict airflow, its just two big holes when full open. The throttles look to be about 45mm, which is ample for your engine. Id say the 4 barrel versions would be overkill.
Click to expand...
So the motor I am getting comes with the 200 rods and 0.040" ACL pistons. The hard work was already done. I am planning to try to get most of the power out of this motor. I want my Ranchero to give some people a run for their money using classic ford inlines. So the cam is not hot enough you day? Pmuller recommended a hotter cam on my other post thats a solid lifter, which going for the RPM's I'm looking at is probably better.

I am not sure if the motor comes with the bosch. It is likely whatever was factory (so maybe bosch). I really want to try to make this thing absolutely something you don't see that screams. I am fairly dead set on the MPFI, so the terminator x that pmuller recommended is likely the system I will use. the 4bbl intake from aussie speed will work with the throttle body for the terminator x, and I can have injector bungs added. I do have a 2300 sniper and hyperspark on my US 200 currently. So this is an option if I decide this is getting too expensive and I can run the 2300 sniper with the bosch because I dont believe the hyperspark is short enough to fit under the intake, even on the 250. The only problem with the 2300, is is/whhen I supercharge it, it won;t take much boost to max it out.
 
rocklord said:
StarDiego75,
I believe that MustangSix determined the EFI banana intake doesn't flow sufficiently for high horsepower on the 250; it works fine on a 200 displacement. Aussies use large 4Bbls on Cain or Aussiespeed 4Bbl manifolds to achieve their HP numbers (along with porting, higher compression, large cams, and magic); they like their C1 heads.

The original ECU for the Crossflow used a flapper type MAF which is a BIG restriction and is basically trash. A modern aftermarket ECU would be best. You can then run coil-near-plug ignition; use a toothed wheel on the balancer and a modified crank sensor from a 2.3L four or 3.8 six, or place a magnet on the cam sprocket with pickup on the chain cover (see Motor Trend 225 Slant Six build).

Pacemaker makes a very good header for the Crossflow (PH4470), but I haven't found anyone selling them that ship to the US. Here is a vendor who sells a long tube header who ships to the US:
www.ebay.com

Headers / Extractors for Ford Falcon XC-XF 4.1L Alloy Head Crossflow (X-Flo) | eBay

FORD FALCON XC-XF ALLOY HEAD 6CYL HEADERS. Headers to suit Ford Falcon XC-XF 6cyl 4.1L Alloy Head.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
These are the headers I have on my crossie, I had to mod them very slightly to fit into the XP Falcon (65) for you guys). Works for me.
 
rocklord said:
StarDiego75,
I believe that MustangSix determined the EFI banana intake doesn't flow sufficiently for high horsepower on the 250; it works fine on a 200 displacement. Aussies use large 4Bbls on Cain or Aussiespeed 4Bbl manifolds to achieve their HP numbers (along with porting, higher compression, large cams, and magic); they like their C1 heads.

The original ECU for the Crossflow used a flapper type MAF which is a BIG restriction and is basically trash. A modern aftermarket ECU would be best. You can then run coil-near-plug ignition; use a toothed wheel on the balancer and a modified crank sensor from a 2.3L four or 3.8 six, or place a magnet on the cam sprocket with pickup on the chain cover (see Motor Trend 225 Slant Six build).

Pacemaker makes a very good header for the Crossflow (PH4470), but I haven't found anyone selling them that ship to the US. Here is a vendor who sells a long tube header who ships to the US:
www.ebay.com

Headers / Extractors for Ford Falcon XC-XF 4.1L Alloy Head Crossflow (X-Flo) | eBay

FORD FALCON XC-XF ALLOY HEAD 6CYL HEADERS. Headers to suit Ford Falcon XC-XF 6cyl 4.1L Alloy Head.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Diego haha. I haven't heard that one in a bit.

Ok, I'll start looking intot he 4bbl manifolds and look at running the terminator throttle body with it.

I was debating using a DSII unit with the reluctor wheel wiped like pmuller suggested. If the Hyperspark worked with this I'd try that since my monye
aussie7mains said:
These are the headers I have on my crossie, I had to mod them very slightly to fit into the XP Falcon (65) for you guys). Works for me.
Click to expand...
By modify, do you mean beat in with a hammer? haha
 
pmuller9 said:
The Super Sniper 2300
Will handle up to 650 hp with boost.
Click to expand...
That is the unfortunate part. I have a regular 2300. So here begs the question, is Terminator X or Super Sniper 2300 the way to go? The only issue I have with the Sniper, is the fuel distribution to the cylinders, especially with the supercharger. Going with a sniper also means not doing coil near plug, which means I'll definitely have to find a distributor to work, whether it be the bosch, the DSII, or a gutted points distributor with DSII components (only is the DSII doesnt work).
 
Jmustang_65 said:
www.spoolimports.com

Spool Ford 200 Conrods + Ross Pistons suit 250 X Flow Block

Spool Ford 200 Conrods PLUS Custom Ross Pistons suit 250 X Flow Block Spool Ford 200 CID length con rods and custom Ross flat top pistons to suit the 250 X flow block are now available. This Package includes: Spool Forged H Beam Conrods (ARP 2000 3/8 Bolts) Custom Ross Racing Forged Pistons...
www.spoolimports.com www.spoolimports.com
Click to expand...
Best part is I'm getting the 200 rods and pistons with this motor
 
rocklord said:
StarDiego75,
I believe that MustangSix determined the EFI banana intake doesn't flow sufficiently for high horsepower on the 250; it works fine on a 200 displacement. Aussies use large 4Bbls on Cain or Aussiespeed 4Bbl manifolds to achieve their HP numbers (along with porting, higher compression, large cams, and magic); they like their C1 heads.

The original ECU for the Crossflow used a flapper type MAF which is a BIG restriction and is basically trash. A modern aftermarket ECU would be best. You can then run coil-near-plug ignition; use a toothed wheel on the balancer and a modified crank sensor from a 2.3L four or 3.8 six, or place a magnet on the cam sprocket with pickup on the chain cover (see Motor Trend 225 Slant Six build).

Pacemaker makes a very good header for the Crossflow (PH4470), but I haven't found anyone selling them that ship to the US. Here is a vendor who sells a long tube header who ships to the US:
www.ebay.com

Headers / Extractors for Ford Falcon XC-XF 4.1L Alloy Head Crossflow (X-Flo) | eBay

FORD FALCON XC-XF ALLOY HEAD 6CYL HEADERS. Headers to suit Ford Falcon XC-XF 6cyl 4.1L Alloy Head.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Whats the thought on these headers compared to those pacemakers

Ford Crossflow alloy head & 3.9 4.0 OHC big bore headers AS0429-16 | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

The new head plate will allow for fitment of both 250 crossflow plus EA to AU SOHC Ford engines when using crossflow engine mounts, Wont fit with large E series mounts. The pipes are supplied in 2 piece for easy removal of either the 3 front or 3 rear pipes. Pipe length vary between
www.aussiespeedshop.com
 
So I am piecing together what I need, but based on the estimated flow rate of the engine, with 95% VE, 6500 RPM cap, and 14.7psi for the supercharger, the CFM of the motor is about 870 CFM. The Holley 1000cfm, 4bbl universal throttle body seems to fit the bill. Any thoughts? This with the 4bbl Aussiespeed intake will be nice. I'll have to have injector bungs added to the intake. It might be tight near cylinders 3/4 unless I mount them on the bottom

Holley EFI 112-588 Universal 4BBL 1000CFM Throttle Body

Holley's new 1000 CFM Throttle Body shares the same air entry area design that powers every NASCAR Sprint Cup Series™ car! The throttle body features integrated throttle position, idle air control and intake air temperature sensors, Ford and GM transmission kick down levers as well as all...
www.holley.com www.holley.com

Aussiespeed crossflow 250 falcon manifold 4 barrel | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

Ford performance 4 barrel intake aluminum head 4.1, 250 Aussiespeed crossflow falcon cortina manifold
www.aussiespeedshop.com
 
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StarDiero75 said:
So I am piecing together what I need, but based on the estimated flow rate of the engine, with 95% VE, 6500 RPM cap, and 14.7psi for the supercharger, the CFM of the motor is about 870 CFM. The Holley 1000cfm, 4bbl universal throttle body seems to fit the bill. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
The motor CFM at 6500 with a 95% VE is.
(250/2 x 6500 x .95)/1728 = 447 cfm.

The supercharger increases air density not engine air flow volume.

The airflow into the supercharger is the engine airflow x the superchargers pressure ratio.
The pressure ratio at 14.7 psi at sea level would be 2.
447 x 2 = 894 cfm going into the inlet of the supercharger.

The throttle body has to go on the inlet of a positive displacement supercharger or else you have no control over supercharger airflow or boost.
 
Last edited:
pmuller9 said:
The motor CFM at 6500 with a 95% VE is.
(250/2 x 6500 x .95)/1728 = 447 cfm.

The supercharger increases air density not engine air flow volume.

The airflow into the supercharger is the engine airflow x the superchargers pressure ratio.
The pressure ratio at 14.7 psi at sea level would be 2.
447 x 2 = 894 cfm going into the inlet of the supercharger.

The throttle body has to go on the inlet of a positive displacement supercharger or else you have no control over supercharger airflow or boost.
Click to expand...
Good, my 1st calc is good, 2nd calc is close lol. But thank you for correcting that. The pressure ratio thing makes sense.

Oh that isnt good. I was thinking in terms of a turbo or a whipple, whoops. Negating this throttle body now, how would you get that sorted out? My other thought is to use an intake like the one below and use a supercharger that does not have a top inlet but more like a side or rear inlet so I can keep my hood. Like something you'd see on a ford Coyote or something. The W100AX supercharger you recommended looks like it should work. How would all this fair with the aluminum ACL pistons? So long as the timing and compression are conservative, it should be alright, right?

Ford Manifold alloy head 250 4.1 cross flow supercharger intake | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

falcon and cortina Ford 250 supercharger kit this old school style roots supercharger system made by Weiand is based on the GM353 supercharger blown crossflow
www.aussiespeedshop.com
 
StarDiero75 said:
Good, my 1st calc is good, 2nd calc is close lol. But thank you for correcting that. The pressure ratio thing makes sense.

Oh that isnt good. I was thinking in terms of a turbo or a whipple, whoops. Negating this throttle body now, how would you get that sorted out? My other thought is to use an intake like the one below and use a supercharger that does not have a top inlet but more like a side or rear inlet so I can keep my hood. Like something you'd see on a ford Coyote or something. The W100AX supercharger you recommended looks like it should work. How would all this fair with the aluminum ACL pistons? So long as the timing and compression are conservative, it should be alright, right?

Ford Manifold alloy head 250 4.1 cross flow supercharger intake | Aussiespeed Street & Racing Products Australia

falcon and cortina Ford 250 supercharger kit this old school style roots supercharger system made by Weiand is based on the GM353 supercharger blown crossflow
www.aussiespeedshop.com
Click to expand...
The Whipple uses a rear mount throttle body.
As far as the ACL pistons, the short answer is no!
I posted that answer in your other thread.

Crossflow CFM

Howdy Guys, 3rd and final post of the night. I am hopefully getting a complete 84DA 250 crossflow and am looking to make as much power NA as almost possible (If I'm not happy with it I'll supercharge). This requires some serious porting. Does anyone have a flow bench data table (0.100, 0.200...
fordsix.com fordsix.com
 
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pmuller9 said:
The Whipple uses a rear mount throttle body.
As far as the ACL pistons, the short answer is no!
I posted that answer in your other thread.

Crossflow CFM

Howdy Guys, 3rd and final post of the night. I am hopefully getting a complete 84DA 250 crossflow and am looking to make as much power NA as almost possible (If I'm not happy with it I'll supercharge). This requires some serious porting. Does anyone have a flow bench data table (0.100, 0.200...
fordsix.com fordsix.com
Click to expand...
Whats your thoughts on the rods/pistons from post #4?
 
I never seen this before. This is the xflow distributor
 

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StarDiero75 said:
Whats your thoughts on the rods/pistons from post #4?
Click to expand...
It's a good price but the flat top pistons will yield too high of a compression ratio for a supercharged application.
If you can get that same combination with a piston dish volume of your choice, then it would be great.
 
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