Blueprint cleveland head

[Tbone3366]

If jew heads were cast, with the cleveland chamber but spaced for the 300, what kind if dailyable power would we see out of the 300? 390cfm carb, and a cam in the range for 1000rpm to 5K rpm

 

[pmuller9]

The Cleveland head uses a canted valve design that requires a second set of lifters and pushrods on the head itself to get the correct pushrod angles on a 300 six.
It was done at the time when there weren’t any other options for a large port volume, crossflow 300 head.
Those 300 engines didn't care about power below 4000 rpms.

If the port volumes get too high you won’t be able to make good torque as low as 1000 rpm.

The proper head design looks like the high port heads used on the Ford 7.3 Godzilla engine.

 

[Tbone3366]

The Cleveland head uses a canted valve design that requires a second set of lifters and pushrods on the head itself to get the correct pushrod angles on a 300 six.
It was done at the time when there weren’t any other options for a large port volume, crossflow 300 head.
Those 300 engines didn't care about power below 4000 rpms.

If the port volumes get too high you won’t be able to make good torque as low as 1000 rpm.

The proper head design looks like the high port heads used on the Ford 7.3 Godzilla engine.

thank you, ill take a look at the 7.3s design

 

[Firepower354]

Cleveland is a dinosaur, and besides the awful 400, never saw low rev use.
Gen 4 5.3 LS heads easily exceed the 1-5k demand. So does a CNC ported Promaxx...

Working backwards from power goal, to air mass required, Engines 101 stuff, show a 320cfm head to be wildly excessive.
Godzilla/Gen 5 LT design would need shrinking to work carbed low-rpm application. They make peak torque at 4000, and only pull decent below that, because of long runners and advanced computer setups.
Single point wet flow fuel delivery isn't at all like modern engines are designed around.

If the abilities and facilities existed, beyond speculation, to cast a new head, a clean sheet design would be far better than juggling modern stuff to fit. Then the odd relationship between cylinder bores and lifter bores could be addressed properly. I'd envision exhaust ports on the pushrod side, if even bothering with crossflow.

 

[InlineDave87]

If the abilities and facilities existed, beyond speculation, to cast a new head, a clean sheet design would be far better than juggling modern stuff to fit. Then the odd relationship between cylinder bores and lifter bores could be addressed properly. I'd envision exhaust ports on the pushrod side, if even bothering with crossflow.

I go back and ford with that too cause typically the spark plugs are by the exhaust manifolds but the push rods run between intake ports on v8s… sometimes i wish i was good with computers or drawing so that i could come up with designs to get the most out of these engines… then i also wish i was a billionaire to make my own factory to create my own speed parts

 

[Tbone3366]

I go back and ford with that too cause typically the spark plugs are by the exhaust manifolds but the push rods run between intake ports on v8s… sometimes i wish i was good with computers or drawing so that i could come up with designs to get the most out of these engines… then i also wish i was a billionaire to make my own factory to create my own speed parts

Im just doing a sohc casting based on the ford 6.2 super duty motor along with getting cams made by schnieder and prepped, speaking of which i need to send head details to them, should have a casting put together to test by july with a production ready cam for this, of course the manifold faces will be setup to run the stock manifolds with an adapter plate for each

 

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

The Cleveland head uses a canted valve design that requires a second set of lifters and pushrods on the head itself to get the correct pushrod angles on a 300 six.
It was done at the time when there weren’t any other options for a large port volume, crossflow 300 head.
Those 300 engines didn't care about power below 4000 rpms.

If the port volumes get too high you won’t be able to make good torque as low as 1000 rpm.

The proper head design looks like the high port heads used on the Ford 7.3 Godzilla engine.

Cleveland is a dinosaur, and besides the awful 400, never saw low rev use.
Gen 4 5.3 LS heads easily exceed the 1-5k demand. So does a CNC ported Promaxx...

Working backwards from power goal, to air mass required, Engines 101 stuff, show a 320cfm head to be wildly excessive.
Godzilla/Gen 5 LT design would need shrinking to work carbed low-rpm application. They make peak torque at 4000, and only pull decent below that, because of long runners and advanced computer setups.
Single point wet flow fuel delivery isn't at all like modern engines are designed around.

If the abilities and facilities existed, beyond speculation, to cast a new head, a clean sheet design would be far better than juggling modern stuff to fit. Then the odd relationship between cylinder bores and lifter bores could be addressed properly. I'd envision exhaust ports on the pushrod side, if even bothering with crossflow.

Ford addressed those issues and more with their stillborn EFI Crossflow design. Such a pity it didn't come to fruition. It would be a great starting place to produce a next gen 4.9 head for enthusiasts.

 

[sixtseventwo4d]

Ford addressed those issues and more with their stillborn EFI Crossflow design. Such a pity it didn't come to fruition. It would be a great starting place to produce a next gen 4.9 head for enthusiasts.

Did this design make it past prototype casting? What caused them to abandon it?

 

[THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER]

Did this design make it past prototype casting?

Yes. Prototype engines were built and tested in vehicles. Even a few turboed vehicles were built.

What caused them to abandon it?

Emissions and packaging concerns.
The big bore 4.9 was a dirty engine, an anachronism in an era where bore sizes were being reduced for cleaner designs.

In the early '90s hoods were geting higher. To package the 4.9 took a lot of hood height.

Enter the V6, the 4.2 L version of the pass car 3.8 L. It was lower, cleaner, lighter, and cheaper to build than upgrading the 4.9 to cleaner standards.
In the interim, the 4.9 got a squirrel cage blower and manifolding to cool the injectors until the 4.2 V6 was ready.

 

[Frank]

There's a 2007 4.2V6 powering the emergency generator at work. NG fueled and 55 hours on it. I'm not a V6 guy, but I'd snatch up that one, it's still "brand new". At 1800 rpm with the 3" exhaust and shorty fat muffler, sounds remarkably like a semi engine from a moderate distance. Silky smooth.