Another noob... Goodwill for a gall with a 200 CID '67

[Anonymous]

Howdy fellow Americans (that's a safe greeting, no?),

I have a gal pal with a '67 Mustang with the 200 CID engine. She's torn about what to do with this car. On the one hand, she wants to fix it up and drive it because it has a family attachment and history thing going for it if you know what I mean. On the other hand, it needs a lot of attention, is an unattractive color, and is hard to drive.

That's where I come in.

I've been tinkering with cars of the GM persuasion for years. It's time I learnt about Ford (with all the kidding aside).

My goals:

1.) Determine current worth of the car.

2.) Determine alternative restoration plan within cost restraints.

As for the first one, I'll let you help me verify:

*120K original miles.
*200 CID with 3 Speed Manual.
*Second paint job (Robin's Egg Blue from original powder blue?) Not sure.
*Interior is in great shape for it's age.
*Absolutely NO rust.

Car is originally from the mid-west and now in California where I put the value at anywhere from 6-9K. With a different color and different rims/tires I'd put the cat toward the high end but what do I know?

I've discussed swapping the drivetrain for a V8 but this is another area where I am sure you could help. I've read a ton of the stickys and have a good idea what would be good things to improve with the car but that would fall in line with he restoration plan...

So on to my questions if I may:

1.) If we go the "sell" route, what is the best way to do this? Sure I could post something on Craigslist or Ebay, but would rather focus my sales efforts on getting the car to someone who would appreciate and take care of it.

2.) Would I be detracting from the value of the car by replacing the six cylinder engine with a V8?

3.) Where is the best place to new wheels for this car? What is the offset? These would work, right?

Anyway, I hope that I am not coming across too pushy or anything like that. I understand how long it takes to be accepted by a forum (especially if you find out what I drive -- not a Cadillac: long story). I also have experienced other car forums on the net and seen great generosity and unselfishness with respect to helping others. 'm guessing this is one of those forums based on the posts I've seen.

Cheers,

~Cadillac

 

[ludwig]

First off, there is a routine you have to go through to get accepted here. You have to say 'hi'. Well you've done that. So welcome to our own little sweet spot.
The car is worth what it is worth to you. You can fiind out what others are willing to pay for it by looking at Craig's list or Collector Car Trader here: http://ww2.collectorcartraderonline.com/search.php If you are new to the car hobby, you will soon find out that you are always upside-down with expenses. The sale value of your car will never equal what you have in it at any given time. So you have to enjoy the ride for its own sake.

If you do a V8 swap, you will also have to beef up the suspension and drive train since the front spindles, springs, driveshaft and rear axle/differential are all dedicated to the smaller weight and torque loading of the six. On the other hand, you can have a unique vehicle with very strong performance characteristics and STILL get the milage and weight advantages of the I6 if you read the material here.

We like these cars a lot. You get so much back in performance and fun for a very small output in labor and parts. And there aren't many parts available, so that's at least half the fun; making your own stuff to squeeze a few more HP out of the beast. Replacement engines are not expensive. Off the shelf parts can be used for staged upgrades. There is a lot of HP to be gained by special milling of the carb mounting. That and the crowd a simple plate of home-made I6 cookies draws when its standing next to a pallet of mass produced Krispy-Kreme V8s at the car show.

If you are still curious after all this, your next step will be to order the Falcon Performance Handbook from the Ford Six Shop link at the bottom of the page. For less than $20 you will find more ideas than you can do on one car.

 

[Funky Cricket]

I for one, am always for keeping the 6. The cost and work needed to put in a v8 "properly" is a cost that will never be recouped if a sell is in order. If you aren't going for a pure power mustang there is no reason the 6 can't meet your needs.

If it is in that good a shape, I even think keeping is more original may fetch a better price as well if "sell" is in order.

Drivability can be addressed, electronic ignition, a nice tune can make it a decent driver for a 40 year old car.

The more info we have on goals, the more specific we can get with our information. As far as the engine is concerned, I might was well be the first to say it, get a good repair manual and pick up the "bible" the Falcon Performance Handbook (search site, you find links), it has a ton of info for maintaining and upgrading the greatly under appreciated 6's.

not sure on the offset, but if you have original wheels, keep them, someone may want them eventually.

 

[fordconvert]

My 2cents worth.... may be overpriced?

I am a GM/Cadillac man myself but the gal saw a mustang on a lot that I stopped at looking as some old cads and thought it was cute. Next thing I know I have a rusted out not running 66 coupe in the driveway. The main reason I bought it for her was I wanted to learn about body work on a car that was easy and cheap to get parts for (unlike the Cadillacs).

The V8's cars seem to go for more money and fewer were built in the first generation. I have no idea how many left are 8's vs 6's. I see mostly drivers being 6's and the more show or full resto cars being V8s. The 'right' way to do a conversion involves a lot of changes on a first gen but I dont know about the 67 seems like I have read that they were building more v8 by that time so maybe more things were the same than the earlier cars. I wouldnt think a properly done conversion with factory or repro parts would hurt the value but I dont know if it would add enough to recoupe the costs of doing it right. A hacked or incomplete swap may hurt the value as would using parts that were not an orignal option like a EFI 302 for example which was my orignal plan when I bought mine.

I dont like light blue cars so if it was mine that color would have to go. The hubcaps (or lack of) makes the thing look much worse. I like the look of the factory caps with the optional spinner things on them but if she likes or wants the look of aftermarket wheels go for it. A PROPERLY tuned and reasonable condition stock 6 is more than adiquite to get a small car like that around town. Should do a little better (maybe alot) better on gas which is a growing concern these days for most people. Adding things like power disc brakes and the suspension upgrade kits make them handle and respond more like modern cars. I think the manual transmission complicates power brakes somewhat but it still can be done. If it was mine I think I would just pick one project or upgrade at a time so I didnt get too much money invested all at one time and enjoy the car. Unless she wants a tire smokin hot rod stay with the stock ish 6. If she wants to smoke the tires its not going to be anything like a stock car anymore and its going to cost more in every aspect.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks! This has already been helpful -- especially the part about staying with the 6 because the 8 will require suspension improvements in addition to the stuff around pulling and replacing the engine/drivetrain.

I am familiar with being behind on a car financially. My daily driver is proof of that. I think my friend also shares the same love for her car that I do for mine and would rather not drive something you see on the road every 5 minutes. It's about being different and maintaining a car that has a special history to me.

Anyway, I'll take some more pics of the car soon and details what kind of plan she wants to take based on the info I can gather.

Thanks again!

 

[fb71]

well, that car's not worth a single penny. Give it to me, and I'll get rid of it for you...

Of course, it worth something... 6k-9k sounds about right, depending on the condition of the structural metal. Do you know if that's the original color? It looks an awful lot like Columbine Blue. Post your data tag info, and me or someone else can decode it for you. If its Columbine Blue, then it might be a High Country Special. Does the air cleaner have a chrome lid?

Anyway, welcome Caddilac!

 

[Anonymous]

First off, there is a routine you have to go through to get accepted here. You have to say 'hi'.

Uh oh, I've already posted a few times and didn't know this. Please forgive me. And, um, 'Hi'.

As for the car, it's sweet. Don't sell it, don't make it breathe fire, just give it a hug.

 

[addo]

I would start by hitting the owner back with a few questions... How does she see herself with the car in a year or eighteen months' time? How does she feel about that mental picture?

If you really want to help a friend, that's stuff you Need To Know. Accept that it (the answers) may also change depending on various factors, etc etc. Make sure your position is flexible and won't have you painted into a corner, or feeling the need to over-assertively defend your actions.

If a decision is made not to sell, look at the conservation/upgrades as perhaps first reliability/safety, followed by comfort, then cosmetics. Unless the motor is about to die (as diagnosed by a non-biased mechanic) don't spend more on it for now than is necessary for the car to keep up with traffic and overtake safely.

Regards, Adam.

 

[shmoozo]

A few thoughts ...

First of all I wouldn't change a thing on the car until I had a really good sense of the direction she was thinking of taking it in both the short term and the long term.

It may well be that she's mainly interested in keeping the car mostly just the way it is, but hopes to improve reliability, fuel economy, "drivability," comfort and safety a bit. If that's the case a switch to some kind of electronic ignition would be an obvious move. The points-based ignitions in the cars of that era leave much to be desired by modern standards, and the conversions are fairly common and aren't that difficult. There's numerous threads here discussing that very subject.

As for wheels, well, that's a subject where people's tastes often differ wildly. You can't just slap on a set of chrome wheels and expect her to like the change. Heck, she may be perfectly happy with a matching set of original wheel covers or hubcaps from an early Mustang of similar vintage or perhaps a set of "baby moons" with chrome trim rings. Then again, depending on her budget, she might prefer some cheapie wheel covers from Pep Boys that simulate alloy rims. Or maybe she's willing to spring for a set of alloy wheels in either a vintage style or something more contemporary. In any case, be sure to get her input on this.



If the car needs tires, match them to her driving style and how she's actually going to use the car. Don't spend a fortune on high performance radials if her driving style suggests that a good set of regular passenger car radials would be a better choice.

Assuming the drive train is in basically good condition I probably wouldn't do much more than clean it, tune it, give it fresh lube, coolant, belts, filters and hoses unless she's wanting to spend a lot of money on go-fast goodies. (The electronic ignition upgrade would be one possible exception to this rule.)

Inside the car I wouldn't change much if the upholstery is in generally good shape, but some possible changes would include a more contemporary audio system of some sort, and if it doesn't have A/C already perhaps an A/C system. (It can get pretty hot in California, ya know? )

If the car doesn't already have them, a good set of seat belts would certainly be a good idea.

Check the brakes and suspension and make sure those are in good working order, and while you are under the car be sure to lube all of the chassis points. If there's any question about how long it has been since the last wheel alignment, get that looked at, too.

One thing to keep in mind is the fact that the earliest Mustangs shared a lot of their underpinnings with the Ford family cars of that era and also that back then the 6-cylinder Mustang was often thought of as a "secretary's car." Don't be too put off by that anachronistic, sexist expression. What it means is that they were regarded as economical, and practical cars which made decent daily drivers but which had a lot more "pizzaz" than, say, a 4-door Falcon wagon.

 

[Anonymous]

Another .02:

Don't sell it if the car has a personal/family attachment. My father-in-law bought a 65 in Nov. of '64 and kept it until my wife was about 10 or so then sold it... I'm fairly sure that everyone in the family is still ticked about it. Your gal friend will wake up the next morning and regret the sale.

They ARE difficult to drive at first. It IS a different car... manual drum brakes mean that you need to "brake early and brake often." 3 sp. manual means that you won't be cruising at 85 mph on the freeway. As a stock i6, so you aren't going to leave any rubber at a stop light. I've found that my Mustang has cured my road rage and has overall, put me in a more relaxed state of mind... I don't rush to work anymore... I "cruise" to work.

The seats will make your lumbar area squinchy after 60 min of driving and the vinyl can remove the upper epidermal layer of bare skin on a hot day. Do as any hitchhiker would do when trying to see the universe on 10 Alterian Dollars a day... take a towel.

On a weekly basis you will swear that you're gonna sell it... then you will be sitting in traffic and notice that nearly everyone gives your ride a second look. Strangers will stop you in the Target parking lot to tell you how much they like your car... drove one in high school... went on their honeymoon in one... etc.

Then you will look at your Mustang... warts and all... and think "I LOVE THIS CAR!"

It's a state of mind... and I like it.

BTW... I think the color is great!

 

[Anonymous]

this is so true i almost cried at the beauty of it

but dude its fun to work on the car and you are not going to be as fast as those newer cars cuz well they have 40 years on you

but i still love it

every time i open the garage door i think to myself DARN that is AWESOME i have a MUSTANG haha

all my friends love it and are so jealous of it but all ask when can i get a ride??? well except for one guy that always trys to make fun of my car cuz its not running but what does he know he can't even full up his own gas (sorry that was mine but he's a jerk and part of the *cough* rice burner *cough* generation)

well i hope she keeps it cuz mine is never going to leave his family

-Mr.T

 

[Anonymous]

On a weekly basis you will swear that you're gonna sell it... then you will be sitting in traffic and notice that nearly everyone gives your ride a second look. Strangers will stop you in the Target parking lot to tell you how much they like your car... drove one in high school... went on their honeymoon in one... etc.

Then you will look at your Mustang... warts and all... and think "I LOVE THIS CAR!"

It's a state of mind... and I like it.

BTW... I think the color is great!

LOL

I am sure this line of reasoning has happened with friend. There is no doubt.

 

[Abandoned67]

First off that is a very attractive color, most people will like that color alot.

Secondly I am going to ecco alot of people but a V8 engine swap is not just a plunk out the 6 and pop in a 8, basicly you have to change suspension, some brake components, electrical, and about everything in the engine bay and under the car.

Those rims that you pictured are the exact rims that are on my 67 mustang right now.

If your going to go on the selling route, anyone on this website that would buy it would be good and love the car, as for selling it otherwise most people who buy mustangs that are in good conditions and that old will care for a love the car. Its the real junkers that you have to worry about being chopped up and parted out.