All Small Six ‘65 200 stock rebuilt - donor or sell ?

[Ironhorse]

Hello all, I recently purchased a 65 200 (5 freeze plug) engine that’s been entirely rebuilt and has 8k miles on it. Bored 30 over, new pistons, rings, rods, ground crank, new cam, timing chain, etc etc. I have some documentation from the shop that did the work - approx $1000. I bought it because I wanted the head (also rebuilt) for my 66 200 (in-car) which is paired to a 68 3 spd top loader. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anyway to attach the ‘65 engine (4 bolt bell housing pattern) to my ‘66 bell housing - true? So, here’s my question - will all those new parts inside the 65 work in my 66 block ? If so, I may hang on to it as a future donor. I don’t think there are many people out there interested in buying just the stock long block without the head - would you agree ? Thanks for the feedback.

 

[frozenrabbit]

A 65' block would take the smaller 8-1/2" dog dish flywheel. Your top-loader bell housing would be for the 9" flywheel. Your '66 block should be dual pattern for both a 8-1/2" and 9" flywheel (transition years). No way to put a 9" clutch to a 8-1/2" block.
Other than the 30 overbore, and maybe oversize crank main bearings if they did an align bore on the mains. Everything internal is a direct swap between '65 and '66, but your '66 would have to be bored for the pistons, and mains.
Very possible someone might be interested in the block without the head.
Me, for example, I got a junkyard '65 200. Have had the head rebuilt and larger 1.5" and 1.75" valves installed, bottom end is seized and will need bored and new pistons. haven't decided what to do with it yet. Currently running a 170 in my '62, swapped the cam and lifters from the 200 into my 170.
I'm in Ohio, for someone like me, it would come down to how much my block would be to rebuild, compared to what it would cost me to pay your asking price, and the cost to transport it.
I'm looking at bore, pistons, bearings, cam and lifters to rebuild my 200.
Stock cam in the '65? Dual roller timing set?

 

[powerband]

"Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anyway to attach the ‘65 engine (4 bolt bell housing pattern) to my ‘66 bell housing - true? ... -- for someone like me, it would come down to how much my block would be to rebuild, compared to what it would cost"

Seems you are at common conundrum. IMHO', the early bellhouse pattern blocks are not worth investing in a rebuild. The'Toploader' large pattern bellhouses of later 170/200's enables almost universal manual tranny swaps and can use later Diaphragm clutches or even HiPo SBF type.

If using an Automatic , the old pattern was still used along with large pattern - 'dual bolt pattern' 170/200 blocks for later 3spd auto bellhouse as well, allows for upgrades to 3 spd C4.

.just my $ .02'

hav efun

My '61 had a very worn early 200 I tried to give away block for a few years, finally used the BFH.

 

[Ironhorse]

Thanks guys. Ya, I plan on keeping the 68 top loader and bell housing. Since it won’t bolt up to the 65 block and there’s no adapter I’m aware of, the two shall never meet each other - unfortunately.

Frozen - I’ll be pulling my head in about a month. Will be able to assess bore wear at that time. If my current block is good, I’m open to selling off the rebuilt 65 block at a very reasonable price. Once you understand your remachine/new part costs, let me know what mine is worth to you.

 

[frozenrabbit]

The price would be up to you, as it is a 8k rebuild, and no way to know the quality standards of the shop that built it. I have a general idea of what mine would cost locally. Your profile says S.E. Michigan, so that's an 11-12 hr round trip for me. If you were just an hour away, that would be different.

I'd say come up with a price you think is fair, and post it in the for sale section of the forum and see if there is any interest.

I wouldn't mind having it, but there are several factors involved, and I do have a running 170, and a rebuildable 200.

 

[Ironhorse]

Will do. As I said, it’s gonna be a little while before I know if I need to hang onto it or can let it go. Doesn’t sound like your in a rush though.

 

[frozenrabbit]

I'm not, been looking locally for a decent 200 for a couple years. Dual bolt pattern issues for me. I'm using the bell housing from a '63 Econoline to mount a 3.03 top loader to a '63 170 8-1/2" clutch. Had to have the input shaft on the 3.03 shortened to work. If I want to go to a 9", everything has to move back 1". Early Econoline bell housing is 1" shorter than the 9" bell housing. I'd have to change input shaft, shifter setup, trans mount and have 1" cut from my driveshaft.

While you can't put a 9" clutch on a 8-1/2" block, you can get the parts to bolt a top loader to the early blocks. Took some figuring as to how to make it work for my setup, I know 9" has more options, but not sure if it's worth it to me to undo the modifications to go to 9".

 

[Ironhorse]

My brain hurts a little bit now . Ya, that sounds like a bunch of un-doing for minimal value. I just ordered the falcon performance book which should help explain all these intermix options. I also have a 79 250 sitting in the back of the garage. Slowly building up the kit needed to swap that in some day. So, anything I do now relative to trans and drive shaft needs to support that plan. If/when that happens, I’ll need a new bell and 10” clutch parts (and maybe a T5).

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, as mentioned, your existing block would have to be bored to accept the oversize pistons.
Whether or not the crank was ground undersize, or the main caps were resized, the main caps are machined to the same original size. A new set of undersize bearings are designed for the crankpin surface, not the main cap surface. The new crankshaft will drop into another block with the proper bearing set.
Good luck

 

[StarDiero75]

If you're willing to do the work, you can make an adapter plate to mount your bell to the old block. I recommend using .25" plate steel. It can be done, it will just require work. Once done though, it will be badass. You could in theory at that point make a SBF adapter and make it so you can bolt any SBF tranny to it as well. Just my thought... Still working on my adapter.

 

[Ironhorse]

I thought about that. Wouldn’t I have to lengthen the tranny input shaft and alter some of the clutch bits ?

 

[frozenrabbit]

An adapter is not an option, if it was, you'd be able to buy a kit.

60 year old engine design, if it could be done, it already would have been.

WAY cheaper and do-able to just get a later year block.