My life-long dream is turning into a horrible nightmare!
The life-long dream has been to someday build a hot rod. Through a life of raising kids, paying bills, etc., and just “getting by”, that dream eventually solidified specifically into a Ford Falcon with a hopped-up 200 six. The first action to bring the dream into reality happened in 2001 when I purchased a not-too-bad 1963 Falcon hardtop with a 170 and Ford-o-matic 2-speed auto trans. For seven or so years, I had lots of fun with the Falcon, fixing her up so she looks pretty good (if you don’t get too close), and showing her regularly at the many local car shows during the summer.
The opportunity for the “hot rod” part came when both kids were both through college and the house was paid off. About two and a half years ago, the project began. The engine and transmission builds are a story unto themselves, but finally, last May (2010), the hopped-up six and the tricked-out C4 were installed.
The engine is a 200 with a Classic Inlines aluminum head and manifold, a 274-degree cam with 112-degree lobe centers, and Classic Inlines dual-out header. The carburetor I chose was the Holley 4160 390-cfm four-barrel. I bought this carb new from Summit Racing over a year ago, though for reasons I won’t go into here, the engine was not completed until May this year.
After installation, we couldn’t get the engine to idle very well. Let me state here that my expertise is pretty limited, but I had a lot of help from some very talented, experienced friends. The consensus, based largely on low vacuum readings, was that there must be some significant vacuum leaks. I managed to nurse the thing home (about a 30-mile trip from where the swap took place), and vowed to search out and correct all vacuum leaks… after I’d had some time to recuperate and restore my enthusiasm!
When I finally started looking for leaks, I couldn’t find any at any of the obvious places. Carb cleaner sprayed at the base of the carb resulted in nothing; likewise along the intake-to-head gasket. All vacuum hoses were fine. All unused vacuum ports were capped. Finally, I detected a response when I sprayed at the edge of the gasket between the carburetor main body and the throttle plate!
Upon removing the carb and turning it over, we saw what appeared to be six screws attaching the throttle plate to the main body, but two additional counter-bored holes where it looked like screws were missing. I believe now that this is normal, but at the time it seemed odd, and eventually we took the carb over to my engine builder’s house where he partially disassembled it to discover the top surface of the throttle plate wasn’t even machined very flat! He worked on the surface with some emery paper on flat bar stock while my other buddy tapped the holes in the main body where the screws seemed to be missing. My engine builder had an old Holley 4160 that he’d bought at a swap meet many years ago, sitting on a shelf. We scavenged two screws from it and put mine back together with eight screws instead of six.
We took it home and re-installed it. It still wouldn’t idle. If anything, it was worse.
My engine builder agreed to go through my carb more thoroughly, and suggested I try his old 4160. He had no idea what condition it was in since he hadn’t touched it since buying it at the swap meet, but I figured it was worth a try.
So, I took the swap-meet carburetor home (after swapping the screws back in) and installed it. It was missing the choke mechanism and all the fast-idle linkage, and it was also missing the ball-fitting on the throttle lever so I couldn’t hook up the gas pedal. However, by manipulating it from under the hood, I was able to get it started and warmed up. With that old swap-meet carburetor, I was able to get the engine running smoothly and idling nicely! I was STOKED!! At least I knew the problem was the CARBURETOR!
My engine builder finished going through my carb, found more “not-flat” surfaces that he corrected, but couldn’t find anything else obviously wrong. I took it home and tried it, but it STILL would not idle!
Okay, now I’m getting frustrated....
I’d decided that I was going to need to ship it back to Summit with an assertive letter and hope to get a replacement. While I was boxing it up, I discovered a tag inside the Holley box that stated, essentially, to NOT return it to its point of sale, but call the Holley Tech Hot Line. So I did.
I explained the problem I was having to the Holley technician and everything we’d done to try to correct it. He asked me to ship it to him, so I did.
Holley has now gone through it, and found “primary float too low… air 69% rich, fuel ok… …Reset float and air. Carb OK.” Hmm….
I just got it back, put it on, and tried it. It STILL WILL NOT IDLE!!! I can get it to almost run by turning the idle mixture screw out about four and a half turns, but it still won’t run below about 1200 rpm, and even then not very smooth.
My question: Has anyone on the Forum ever had a similar experience with a Holley carb on a similar set-up? If so, was there a solution? In the Forum’s opinion, what should be my next course of action?
Sorry for the long-winded story.
Near the end of my rope….
Thanks!
The life-long dream has been to someday build a hot rod. Through a life of raising kids, paying bills, etc., and just “getting by”, that dream eventually solidified specifically into a Ford Falcon with a hopped-up 200 six. The first action to bring the dream into reality happened in 2001 when I purchased a not-too-bad 1963 Falcon hardtop with a 170 and Ford-o-matic 2-speed auto trans. For seven or so years, I had lots of fun with the Falcon, fixing her up so she looks pretty good (if you don’t get too close), and showing her regularly at the many local car shows during the summer.
The opportunity for the “hot rod” part came when both kids were both through college and the house was paid off. About two and a half years ago, the project began. The engine and transmission builds are a story unto themselves, but finally, last May (2010), the hopped-up six and the tricked-out C4 were installed.
The engine is a 200 with a Classic Inlines aluminum head and manifold, a 274-degree cam with 112-degree lobe centers, and Classic Inlines dual-out header. The carburetor I chose was the Holley 4160 390-cfm four-barrel. I bought this carb new from Summit Racing over a year ago, though for reasons I won’t go into here, the engine was not completed until May this year.
After installation, we couldn’t get the engine to idle very well. Let me state here that my expertise is pretty limited, but I had a lot of help from some very talented, experienced friends. The consensus, based largely on low vacuum readings, was that there must be some significant vacuum leaks. I managed to nurse the thing home (about a 30-mile trip from where the swap took place), and vowed to search out and correct all vacuum leaks… after I’d had some time to recuperate and restore my enthusiasm!
When I finally started looking for leaks, I couldn’t find any at any of the obvious places. Carb cleaner sprayed at the base of the carb resulted in nothing; likewise along the intake-to-head gasket. All vacuum hoses were fine. All unused vacuum ports were capped. Finally, I detected a response when I sprayed at the edge of the gasket between the carburetor main body and the throttle plate!
Upon removing the carb and turning it over, we saw what appeared to be six screws attaching the throttle plate to the main body, but two additional counter-bored holes where it looked like screws were missing. I believe now that this is normal, but at the time it seemed odd, and eventually we took the carb over to my engine builder’s house where he partially disassembled it to discover the top surface of the throttle plate wasn’t even machined very flat! He worked on the surface with some emery paper on flat bar stock while my other buddy tapped the holes in the main body where the screws seemed to be missing. My engine builder had an old Holley 4160 that he’d bought at a swap meet many years ago, sitting on a shelf. We scavenged two screws from it and put mine back together with eight screws instead of six.
We took it home and re-installed it. It still wouldn’t idle. If anything, it was worse.
My engine builder agreed to go through my carb more thoroughly, and suggested I try his old 4160. He had no idea what condition it was in since he hadn’t touched it since buying it at the swap meet, but I figured it was worth a try.
So, I took the swap-meet carburetor home (after swapping the screws back in) and installed it. It was missing the choke mechanism and all the fast-idle linkage, and it was also missing the ball-fitting on the throttle lever so I couldn’t hook up the gas pedal. However, by manipulating it from under the hood, I was able to get it started and warmed up. With that old swap-meet carburetor, I was able to get the engine running smoothly and idling nicely! I was STOKED!! At least I knew the problem was the CARBURETOR!
My engine builder finished going through my carb, found more “not-flat” surfaces that he corrected, but couldn’t find anything else obviously wrong. I took it home and tried it, but it STILL would not idle!
Okay, now I’m getting frustrated....
I’d decided that I was going to need to ship it back to Summit with an assertive letter and hope to get a replacement. While I was boxing it up, I discovered a tag inside the Holley box that stated, essentially, to NOT return it to its point of sale, but call the Holley Tech Hot Line. So I did.
I explained the problem I was having to the Holley technician and everything we’d done to try to correct it. He asked me to ship it to him, so I did.
Holley has now gone through it, and found “primary float too low… air 69% rich, fuel ok… …Reset float and air. Carb OK.” Hmm….
I just got it back, put it on, and tried it. It STILL WILL NOT IDLE!!! I can get it to almost run by turning the idle mixture screw out about four and a half turns, but it still won’t run below about 1200 rpm, and even then not very smooth.
My question: Has anyone on the Forum ever had a similar experience with a Holley carb on a similar set-up? If so, was there a solution? In the Forum’s opinion, what should be my next course of action?
Sorry for the long-winded story.
Near the end of my rope….
Thanks!