All Small Six Getting a 2V for My 200

[StarDiero75]

Howdy or G'Day Mates,

So I'm in the process of finally getting a 250 2V for my American 200. I want this head to really wake up my motor so I want to know what to do to get the most power out of it. A few questions:

1. I currently have a E0xxx log head with a 2V conversion, how much power am I expected to pick up?
2. Is the stock 2V intake not the greatest? Should I go ahead and get the Aussie Speed 4V intake? Will I need a pig for daily driving?
3. For a solid daily, that has plenty of power and isnt a PITA to drive, would having a 256H Schneider cam with 1.65 roller rockers be too much? Or just right? The cam now is very pleasant to drive, just making sure I don't overkill. Lift is .420, lope sep 112, duration @ .050 is 204.
4. Currently I have a holley 2300 350. My head will come with the Stromberg WW. Which is better and which will perform better? I assume the Stromberg will get better mileage lol.
5. I plan on upsizing the valves to 1.75 and 1.5, how risky is it with the water jacket on #1?
6. I am totally undecided if I want power adders. i just did a garage rebuild (rings and rod bearings) and would like not to have to pull it apart again to put in forged pistons/rods/etc. Whats a safe CR to be able to add a paxtonsupercharger with 8psi? And if I choose to not boost it but keeping that CR, how much possible power am I leaving on the table by not going up to, lets say, 9:1?
7. Is it worth porting everything and polishing the exhaust? I know the exhaust is the restriction on the head, how much possible power do I leave on the table by not doing this?

Thanks guys,
Ryan

 

[bubba22349]

Howdy or G'Day Mates,

So I'm in the process of finally getting a 250 2V for my American 200. I want this head to really wake up my motor so I want to know what to do to get the most power out of it. A few questions:

1. I currently have a E0xxx log head with a 2V conversion, how much power am I expected to pick up?
2. Is the stock 2V intake not the greatest? Should I go ahead and get the Aussie Speed 4V intake? Will I need a pig for daily driving?
3. For a solid daily, that has plenty of power and isnt a PITA to drive, would having a 256H Schneider cam with 1.65 roller rockers be too much? Or just right? The cam now is very pleasant to drive, just making sure I don't overkill. Lift is .420, lope sep 112, duration @ .050 is 204.
4. Currently I have a holley 2300 350. My head will come with the Stromberg WW. Which is better and which will perform better? I assume the Stromberg will get better mileage lol.
5. I plan on upsizing the valves to 1.75 and 1.5, how risky is it with the water jacket on #1?
6. I am totally undecided if I want power adders. i just did a garage rebuild (rings and rod bearings) and would like not to have to pull it apart again to put in forged pistons/rods/etc. Whats a safe CR to be able to add a paxtonsupercharger with 8psi? And if I choose to not boost it but keeping that CR, how much possible power am I leaving on the table by not going up to, lets say, 9:1?
7. Is it worth porting everything and polishing the exhaust? I know the exhaust is the restriction on the head, how much possible power do I leave on the table by not doing this?

Thanks guys,
Ryan

Hi Ryan, Congrats on finding and getting a 250 2V Aussie head this was a long time dream of mine I had even paid for one back 10 years ago but never got it. So here is my OPIN on your questions.
1. A stock large log heads performance with the 2V direct mount mod is near that of the Stock 250 2V heads performance.
2. In pictures the stock intakes look to be very decent intakes though if your wanting to go for max performance build then the Ausie Speed, or a V. i. Intake is going to be the ticket.
3. In my OPIN a 256H cam with 1.65 roller rockers isn't going to be too much and it might not even be just right that might take a 264 degree cam but again it's in what you will like not me.
4. The Sombregs were decent Carb's yes even good economy but hands down it won't match the performance of a Holley 350 CFM carb period.
5. The 1.750 intake and 1.5 exhaust should fit and I haven't ever heard of a problem, but you should ask Xctasy for confirmation on if it's to big for the #1 water jacket.
6. Stock compression for 1963 1/2 to 1968 200 short blocks is 8.7 to 1 I see no problem going to 8.9 to 9.2 with a Paxton Super Charger and 8 PSI it was done many times back in the day. Do you know what your compression Ratio is right now? For a NA 200 six engine 9.1 to 9.2 is about ideal with regular fuel.
7. Yes it is worth it to port everything, however these 2V heads stock will out perform the large logs that are fully ported on the intake side the exhaust flows of both type heads match very close stock or ported. This is when these 2V heads will really perform on the intake side and it will leave the large log fully ported & moded in the dust. The only other better performing head is one of the stock or fully ported Aluminum C.I. / V. I. 2V heads. Best of luck in your mod's.

 

[drag-200stang]

The only significant improvement would be the easier ability to go mpefi. ,In my opinion.

 

[StarDiero75]

Hi Ryan, Congrats on finding and getting a 250 2V Aussie head this was a long time dream of mine I had even paid for one back 10 years ago but never got it. So here is my OPIN on your questions.
1. A stock large log heads performance with the 2V mid is near that of the Stock 250 2V heads performance.
2. In pictures the stock intakes they look to be very decent intakes though if your wanting to go for max performance build then the Ausie Speed, or a V. i. Intake is going to be the ticket.
3. In my OPIN a 256H cam with 1.65 roller rockers isn't going to be to much and it might not even be just right that might take a 264 degree cam but again it's in what you will like not me.
4. The Sombregs were decent Carb's yes even good economy but hands down it won't match the performance of a Holley 350 CFM carb period.
5. The 1.750 intake and 1.5 exhaust should fit and I haven't ever heard of a problem, but you should ask Xctasy for confirmation on if it's to big for the #1 water jacket.
6. Stock compression for 1963 1/2 to 1968 200 short blocks is 8.7 to 1 I see no problem going to 8.9 to 9.2 with a Paxton Supper Charger and 8 PSI it was done many times back in the day. Do you know what your compression Ratio is right now? For a NA 200 six engine 9,1 to 9.2 is about ideal with regular fuel.
7. Yes it is worth it to port everything, however these 2V heads stock will out perform the large logs that are fulley ported on the intake side the exhaust flows of both type heads match very close stock or ported. This is when these 2V heads will really perform on the intake side and it will leave the large log fully ported & moded in the dust. The only other better performing head is one of the stock or fully ported Aluminum C.I. / V. I. 2V heads. Best of luck in your mod's.

I've been wanting one of these for awhile and finally decided to pull the trigger when I got offered a decent deal.

1. A stock Large log 2V is similar to the aussie 2V in stock performance? Interesting. I guess if the cam is small then they'd both suffer.
2. Ok, I actually put this out on the 2V Facebook page as well and several of the guys actually just leave the stock intake because it already flows pretty well. The 4V intake is apparently a little too large and gives like no low end torque. A plenum pig fixes it, but I honestly think I'll probably stick with the 2V intake.
3. Ok that is what I was worried about. I'll give Clay Smith a call and see what they recommend based on my setup. I got a SVO T5, 3.25 Posi 8", on 225x60x15 tires. Right now with the E0 2V conversion It definitely feels like it should pull harder but I think that cam might just not be hot enough. If I'm going through all the work, might as well and put the right stuff in it. I'm not sure how much low end I'll lose with the 274, but I know if I plan to go boost that will be a good cam for it, just worried if I dont boost it, how bad will driveability be. Or it just forces me to boost it lol.
4. Ok good, I just bought the street avenger and didnt want to have the stromberg be a better carb. I LOVE THE STREET AVENGER by the way. It's a million times better than the 2100 I had on there. I just added a Thompson powerplate to it too. I havent gotten to drive it yet but it already revs better with it.
5. I have heard of putting them in, the shop just has to be careful not to cut too far. One thing that is upsetting is that this head comes fully rebuilt. But the valve guides are incorrect at 11/32 and the seats are now the wrong size, so essentially I'll have to pay for another rebuild.
6. Ok I was just clarifying. Currently mine is 9.2-9.3:1. Paradise Wheels that makes the kit for the 200 Paxton setup said that if I want to have 9.2 CR, I should run forged pistons. You think If I go down to 9.0:1 and the paxton it should be fine with stock internals at 8psi? Definitely have to use premium 92 octane after that?
7. Ok I'll look into definitely having it ported then. Is polishing the exhaust and chamber worth it for a daily? Also, do you have any references for a machinist in the Seattle/Bremerton, WA area that would dare touch this and port? I usually use the local NAPA machine for my stuff, but this head has to be very carefully rebuilt.

Thanks Bubba!
Ryan

 

[Econoline]

Put a sniper on it.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi Ryan,
5. If the head has all ready been rebuilt you could run as is for awhile or port it with the stock valves. Humm but with 11/32 inch guides you can maybe work with that. The SBC V8's and their other engines like six'es use that valve guide size. For an example a 283 used a 1.72 intake valve and some other others sizes used a 1.84 that should even fit or they could be cut down some in diameter too, they also have exhaust valves near what's needed off the top of my head like a 1.5 & 1.6 too. All we need to do is compare the valve lengths to see if that can work, i will see if i can find all that out tomorrow, of course a smaller valve stem gives you better port flow. A set of bronze guides or guide liners could fix that bring them right back into spec.
6. I like the Forged Pistons too but which Pistons do you have now? Some of the cast Pistons were weak in the ring lands even without a power adder.
7. Sorry don't know anyone to recommend up in your area. Sdiesel on the Big Six Forum I think is from that area you might try asking him. Best of luck

 

[StarDiero75]

Put a sniper on it.

Been there, done that. Probably will work now that I don't have vacuum leaks but I still go back to tye problem I was having with the fuel pump being louder than hell and always wanting to cavatate. If they had a Ranchero in tank pump for it, I'd consider it.

 

[StarDiero75]

Hi Ryan,
5. If the head has all ready been rebuilt you could run as is for awhile or port it with the stock valves. Humm but with 11/32 inch guides you can maybe work with that. The SBC V8's and other engines like six'es uses that valve guide size and for an example a 283 used a 1.72 intake valve and some other others sizes used a 1.84 should even fit or they could be cut down some in diameter too, they also have exhaust valves near what's needed off the top of my head like a 1.5 & 1.6 too. All we need to do is compare the valve lengths to see if that can work, i will see if i can find all that out tomorrow, of course a smaller valve stem give you better flow. A set of bronze guides or guide liners could fix that bring them right back in spec.
6. I like the Forged Pistons too but which Pistons do you have now? Some of the cast Pistons were weak in the ring lands even without a power adder.
7. Sorry don't know anyone to recommend up in your area. Sdiesel on the Big Six Forum I think is from thar area you might try asking him. Best of luck

5. I was thinking that as well. I'd definitely port it, but I like the idea of being able to reuse the valve guides. I'd like to go as big as I can without killing torque, what's the largest you'd recommend? I dont typically rev over 5500, but if I get a nice cam, it'll actually breathe at the top end with the new 2V intake too. Chevy exhaust valves are 11/32" with a 1.5, aren't they? Does the 1/32" increase in diameter decrease the flow measurably? I'd love to be able to use all the VI port flow valves again, but they don't seem to be in stock either. I'll try to talk to my chevy neighbor tomorrow as well. He knows all sorts of stuff like that. I have an extra 1.75 factory valve I can use as a reference to stem height.
6. They seem to be just .030 over with a small dish. Sounds like I shouldnt even tempt fate and add a supercharger until I swap pistons. Being its already at .030 over, I dont think on my next rebuild and going to .040 over then boosting is a good idea, is that correct?
7. Yeah thats my problem now. I'll check into him.

Thanks Bubba,
Ryan

 

[frozenrabbit]

289

 

[bubba22349]

5. Ok sorry about that detour turned out to be a dumb idea the Chevy valves are way too long SI lists them in 4.98 or 4.88 inch long for their intake and exhaust valves, that are available in the 1.72 & 1.84 intakes & 1.5 or 1.6 exhaust. The Ford 200 six stock valves are 4.260 inch long, so it's a bridge to far. By the time you had the Chevy valves machined down so they would work in the 2V head it adds to much cost, you would be better off installing new valve guides to use existing common available 200 / 250 six intake & exhaust valves. Yes flow testing of a heads intake & exhaust ports shows the larger the valve stem the less flow that's why the Port Flow type valves that are necked down at the valve head up to the guide location are such a popular mod when building a performance engine as they will increase the lower lift flow considerably. The Ford Six heads can fit a max intake valve size of 1.88 with a 1.5 exhaust, however if your talking about also using a hard seat on the intake valves I am doubtful that you would be able to go that big.
6. Sounds like a stock replacement cast piston some of those aren't to bad do you happen to have a picture of the ring lands for the oil scraper rings or remember what they looked like? Is the bore good or needing to be re-bored? On these six's .030 over is fine and even .040 over, of course less of overbore is better so you can have the option to rebuild again in the future. Otherwise in the future a block can also be sleeved back to a standard bore too if needed, but some have also gone .060 over and more using other piston / car brand sources and didn't have any problems. A forged piston can be custom made to fit too the price is still best price right now is $550.00 for Auto / Race Tech Pistons you get to choose all the dimensions and ring packs ( standard or Metrics) this is were you need to watch now days is the ring sizes that are easily available I think this isn't as much of a problem on a 200 as some other engines. Best of luck

 

[DannyG]

The CC's on the new head will also affect your compression ratio, so figure that into the equation too.
FWIW, I ran stock original ( 100,000 miles on 'em) cast pistons in my first 289 rebuild, huge cam and a Paxton supercharger @ 6 lbs of boost. That engine turned 6,000 rpms every single time I drove it. Lasted a few years with hard driving/street drags...
When I pulled the engine out to replace it with a 302, I noticed one piston skirt had broken off, but they held up under boost for several years.
DannyG

 

[wsa111]

For a Cam i would call Jerry @ Schneider, or Howard Cams.
Clay Smith is in the middle of redoing there profiles. Their 274 is too much & will kill your low end.
When you said 1.65 rocker arms, were you going with Yella-Terra or a shaft mounted rocker arm??? The shaft mounted rocker arms still use the stock lifters, where the Yella-Terra's use the V8 lifters cause they require oil through pushrods. Let us know which way you are going with.

 

[StarDiero75]

5. Ok sorry about that detour turned out to be a dumb idea the Chevy valves are way too long SI lists them in 4.98 or 4.88 inch long for their intake and exhaust valves, that are available in the 1.72 & 1.84 intakes & 1.5 or 1.6 exhaust. The Ford 200 six stock valves are 4.260 inch long, so it's a bridge to far. By the time you had the Chevy valves machined down so they would work in the 2V head it adds to much cost, you would be better off installing new valve guides to use existing common avaiable 200 / 250 six intake & exhaust valves. Yes flow testing of a heads intake & exhaust ports shows the larger the valve stem the less flow that's why the Port Flow type valves that are necked down at the valve head up to the guide location are such a popular mod when building a performance engine as they will increase the lower lift flow considerably. The Ford Six heads can fit a max intake valve size of 1.88 with a 1.5 exhaust, however if your talking about also using a hard seat on the intake valves I am doubtful that you would be able to go that big.
6. Sounds like a stock replacement cast piston some of those arn't to bad do you happen to have a picture of the ring lands for the oil scraper rings or remember what they looked like? Is the bore good or needing to be rebooted? On these six'es .030 over is fine and even .040 over, of corse less of overbore is better so you can have the option to rebuild again in the future. Otherwise in the future a block can also be sleeved back to a standard bore too if needed, but some have also gone .060 over and more using other piston / car brand sources and didn't have any problems. A forged piston can be custom made to fit too the price is still best price right now is $550.00 for Atuo / Race Tech Pistons you get to choose all the diametions and ring packs ( standard or Mectrics) this is were you need to watch now days is the ring sizes that are easily available I think this isn't as much of a problem on a 200 as some other engines. Best of luck

Sorry about the delay, I've been super busy.
5. I started doing a little digging and was finding the same information. I was interested in possibly cutting the valves height down but if its gonna cost extra, and not flow as well, then its not worth it. So I know with the log head, going to 1.84 valves is a waste b/c it doesn't breathe, would it be a good idea to go to those with the aussie? Or stick with the 1.75? I'm definitely going to the 1.5 exhaust.

6. I do not have a picture of the ring lands. Yeah I did not see any FOMOCO stamps on the piston anywhere when it was out. The bore was fine last I saw it. Still had decent cross hatching and we honed it again before re-ringing it. I'm thinking here that my machinist did a bad job with the valve guides b/c I'm still getting oil on my plugs. Its not bad but its noticeable. The valve seals are fine and she has all new rings/scraper. After I get the aussie head on I'll find out if it was the head and not the rings lol.
Alright then, when she goes 40 over, I'll make sure to use forged and just keep the super charger at 8psi. That should be fine. I'll probably look into doing the 1JZ rods then as well.

 

[StarDiero75]

Sounds like to beat the hell out of it haha.

The CC's on the new head will also affect your compression ratio, so figure that into the equation too.
FWIW, I ran stock original ( 100,000 miles on 'em) cast pistons in my first 289 rebuild, huge cam and a Paxton supercharger @ 6 lbs of boost. That engine turned 6,000 rpms every single time I drove it. Lasted a few years with hard driving/street drags...
When I pulled the engine out to replace it with a 302, I noticed one piston skirt had broken off, but they held up under boost for several years.
DannyG

I kinda plan to do the same once I get her really going with the Aussie head and charger.
Oh yes, I make sure to calculate the CCs.

Maybe I'll charge before I do my pistons. I will however have to hold back the revs till I upgrade the rod bolts.

 

[StarDiero75]

For a Cam i would call Jerry @ Schneider, or Howard Cams.
Clay Smith is in the middle of redoing there profiles. Their 274 is too much & will kill your low end.
When you said 1.65 rocker arms, were you going with Yella-Terra or a shaft mounted rocker arm??? The shaft mounted rocker arms still use the stock lifters, where the Yella-Terra's use the V8 lifters cause they require oil through pushrods. Let us know which way you are going with.

Originally I had called Jerry and got the cam I have now. Its ok, I wish it had more to it. I was really interested in Clays 268 cam. Looked like it was hot, but still had a lot of driveability.

So I was planning on the yella terra rollers. I didn't want the shaft ones b/c they weren't roller. Obviously when I yank the head I'll have to do it then to pull the lifters and plug the oil passage in the block to the head. Also if I'm swapping cams it'll already be off too lol.

 

[Econoline]

This is what I did, do it at you're own risk. It's working great for me. AEM 50-1000 fuel pump and a pick-up sock from some Dodge, Mazda(Maasda for you Canadians ) or something. I think it's in the original post. So far so good in the Econoline tank, quiet until the tank is empty. You hear it prime, but then it's gone. It's quieter than my 93 Bronco or pickup. The Sniper is running good.

 

[chad]

Fan-tastic!

 

[StarDiero75]

This is what I did, do it at you're own risk. It's working great for me. AEM 50-1000 fuel pump and a pick-up sock from some Dodge, Mazda(Maasda for you Canadians ) or something. I think it's in the original post. So far so good in the Econoline tank, quiet until the tank is empty. You hear it prime, but then it's gone. It's quieter than my 93 Bronco or pickup. The Sniper is running good.

So I still have the whole unit. I'm considering using it again in the future. I'm honestly really happy with the Street Avenger for now so I think I'll keep it in the Ranch. But if I end up keeping my 63 Falcon long term, I'll probably add something like that to it it just go with the EFI tank. I'm not sure with the direction of that car yet, trying to focus on the Ranch. I do know after I get the aussie head I will be supercharging it. I'm pretty sure about that.

 

[Econoline]

Are the tanks between falcon, rancho and mustangs much different? The next upgrade I want to do to the van is put '70 Mustang efi tank in and get a 22 gallon tank with an efi baffle setup. Use the pump I'm using with one of those mustang tanks from Tanks inc. The mustang and van tanks are basically identical except for the fill. I'll have to have someone braze a fill where it needs to be. The existing fill on those efi tanks use an sae bolt pattern so finding a block off and gasket is easy. Like the radiators, exactly the same but the flanges are on the other side and if you go to a 250 or v8 they are larger and swapped the positions, but it's just a flange reversal and the v8 hoses work too.

 

[chad]

I thought the "sz change" hoses from this company might help me w/my own conversion. I want silly cone anyway:

Black Silicone Coolant Hose Straight Reducers - Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies

Our Black silicone coolant hose straight reducers are approximately 4" long overall.

www.pegasusautoracing.com

Look round da site. Lotta goodies~
Can't help w/da tanks.