All Small Six New Issues With My Build

[Fred C]

Hello All,

I got the engine and transmission installed in the 63 Futura Tudor and have run in to a couple of snags and wanted to see what I can do.
The 200 with a C4 transmission has a set of Scott Drake dual headers but there is a issue with the starter fitment. We installed the starter but it is such a tight fit that the header would have to be removed if the starter had to be replaced. This is 3 bolt Starter. Is there a another style starter I could use that would eliminate this problem? It also seems that the starter being so close to the header that it may get too hot. Can that section of the header be wrapped with some header insulation for heat or something?

I've also installed an aluminum radiator but the oem fan blade is too close and i don't think it will work. Is an electric fan set up what I need or is there a flex fan that could be used?
Your input is much appreciated.

Fred C

 

[Jmustang_65]

Use a mini starter and either coat the header or use a blanket on the starter as well. That has always been the problem with Scott drake headers.

 

[Fred C]

Thanks,
What are the recommendations for the brand of a mini starter

 

[Jmustang_65]

What transmission do you have?

Check out this thread from Bubba.

Starter Swaps for the 250's, 200's, & other Small Six'es

Recently there was a discussion on the big six forum on using the newer small case Motorcraft or aftermarket gear reduction starters in place of the big case old style starters. These newer starters have lots of advantages like smaller diameter cases for more header clearance, less weight...

fordsix.com

 

[Fred C]

I have the C4 transmission

 

[Jmustang_65]

As for for the other Ford & Mercury Small Six'es 200's, 170's, & 144's', with an Auto Transmission these will use a 3 Bolt Starter your going to run into the same thing, using the stock starter or going with one of the aftermarket Mini Starters. These 3 bolt starters are based on the Ford FE V8's (332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, & 42. Update 5/16/2020 All 3 bolt OEM starters Ford ever made for these engines have a large case, the other choice if you want a smaller starter is getting an aftermarket PMGR Mini Starter that's made to fit an FE Ford V8 with an Auto Trans (but it must be one that case can be clocked) to be able to fit on a 144,170, and 200's High Mount Short Blocks and Auto Bellhousing. Fords has two starter drive depths 3/8 or 3/4 inch. Measure from the face of your bell housing where the starter bolts on to the ring gear to determine your depth. Generally a Manual Trans Bell Housing uses a 3/8 inch depth starter and an Auto Trans has a 3/4 inch depth. Latest Update: One of the Smallest in Size, Lightest, that's very Powerful, and is also Infinitely Adjustable for the Solenoid Position in a Mini Starter and will fit the 144, 170, and 200 Small Six's with a Ford O / or Merc O Matic and or the C4 Auto Transmissions is the RobbMc Performance Part #3001 https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/fordat_starter.html

New High Torque Mini Starter Ford Automatic 1966-1981 FE 352/360/390/427/428 | eBay

New 12 Volt Gear Reduction Starter FE Automatic Transmission. New 12 Volt Gear Reduction Starter. Ford C0DF-11001-A C0DF-11001-D C1VF-11001-D C2VF-11001-C C2VY-11002-A C3OF-11001-B C3OZ-11002-C C3VF-11001-A C4OF-11001-B C4TF-11001-B C4TZ-11002-B C4VF-11001-A C5AF-11001-A C6AF-11001-A...

www.ebay.com

 

[Fred C]

Hey J,
So correct me if i'm wrong - "The New High Torque Mini Starter For Automatic 1966-1981" from ebay will fit and work for my setup? Is there anything other than install this starter that I would have to do such as it must be clocked? I 'm not familiar with the phrase clocked - please forgive me but what is this and how is it done - is it done before or after the starter is installed. I assume this mini starter is smaller that the one I have and will allow the removal & reinstallation if needed without removing the header.

 

[Jmustang_65]

I haven't used this starter but others here have.
Clocked is meaning used to make the solenoid fit at the correct position for clearance. Info from Robb MC site

• The solenoid can be rotated to any position without taking the starter apart. We recommend positioning the solenoid under the starter motor and towards the oil pan. This makes it easier to connect the battery cable and keeps the solenoid away from exhaust heat.

I would add a blanket like so.

Design Engineering DEI 10402 DEI Versa Shields | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - DEI Versa Shields with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Starter Heat Shields at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Fred C]

Does anyone know if this starter can be clocked? " New High Torque Mini Starter Ford Automatic 1966-1981 FE 352/360/390/427/428"

 

[Fred C]

Which starter is preferred: PA-PmGR mini starter 1806 if this is the correct part number or...New High Torque Minia Starter Foed Automatic 1966-1981 FE 352/360/390/427/428..and will either of these work. Can both of these be clocked and do the both need starter depth of 3/4" for the C4 transmission. Just want to make sure before I order the wrong one.

Thanks

 

[Jmustang_65]

https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/fordat_starter.html
I think this is clock able.

 

[drag-200stang]

The RobbMc style starter is close to 10# lighter, less weight is good.

 

[Fred C]

Seems that the RobbMc starter is the one to get. I liked averything that I read about this starter and the only thing I disliked was the COST of it lol, but I went ahead and placed a order for it today.

Thanks to everyone for their input

Fred C

 

[chad]

and now?

 

[Fred C]

Update - Have installed the RobbMc Mini starter 3001. Plenty of room with the headers now. Can now remove the starter without taking the headers off. After the starter was clocked to a perfect position it is not close to the header pipes. I also purchased a starter blanket which should keep it cooler as well. I haven't cranked the newly rebuilt engine yet as now I am fumbling with the fan. I bought a flex fan but it is too close to the radiator so sending it back and ordered a push electric fan to go in front of the radiator. Seems like it has been 1 step forward and 2 steps back on just about everything for this build which I guess is pretty much par for the course for a 60 year old car - lol

Fred C

 

[chad]

u get what u pay for, eh!
"...pretty much par..."
soundin like an ol pro now, bra.
Can u name (co & it's number) that blue paint on ur stang?
I thnk it's 1 of my fav ford blues~

 

[Fred C]

That is my car but it's not a Mustang it is a 63 Falcon 2dr sdn Futura. It is a Mecedes Benz color, Code: 352 and the color is called
Linarit/Siriusblau - Effect from the year 1995.. The car was painted Sept 2011. It sat inside a big garage/shop for 23 years after it was purchased from the original owner in April 2000 . It was never driven in all those years and he never finished the build. I purchased it June 2023 and my goal is to get it finished. Almost there I think if I don't go broke first.

I'll post photos once I get her done

Fred C

 

[chad]

tiny pic, cant do anything w/it but there's a brilliant blue
ford had then (mid/late 60s).
All ways try'n find out abt it.
Thanks, as this 1 too looks really great. ('95 MB, code: 352)

 

[John Ha]

tiny pic, cant do anything w/it but there's a brilliant blue
ford had then (mid/late 60s).
All ways try'n find out abt it.
Thanks, as this 1 too looks really great. ('95 MB, code: 352)

Have you looked at this? It has 4 pages of Ford Falcon paints ... maybe too much information? Acapulco Blue and Brittany Blue were both really spiffy colors

 

[chad]

yes, I have. I remember it as one of the best sources. Just like audio files on net
for picking an exhaust component, distortion abounds -so- as the screen for paint.
We hada local automotive paint store I'd take such info (this) to match up. The place
was decimated by covid (I'm so pissed at our nation for abandoning us @ that time)
so unavailable to me now. Course the puter can mix-up any thing one wants now...
(no additional charge at NAPA)