Starting my build very soon

Greetings Ford Six Fans,

My block was decked .030 to achieve near zero deck height (my head has not been milled). I understand that, to achieve correct valvetrain geometry, I need to place shims under the rocker assembly pedestals. Are ordinary thin washers used for this, or are there specially made shims?

Thanks
Bob
 
Forget anything you heard about shimming the pedestels. Its something Ak Miller started a long tme ago in a hot rod article. They didn't have time to get the right push rods so they made due by shimming the rocker shaft. Anything you do to raise and lower the rocker shaft will change the as designed rocker to valve geometry. If you know for a fact its off for the cam you have, in other words extreme lift then maybe shortening the pedestel would help to restore the rocker to valve alignment. But for what you have, I don't think it would be an issue. What you want to make sure is, that the push rod shaft is the correct length so that your rocker arm adjuster is in a good position to adjust your hydraulic lifter preload correctly. Extreme milling of the block or head only requires the right length push rod for the correct adjustment. Make sure your push rods are sized correctly and don't bind throughout travel (cup and ball). I hope this helps and doesn't complicate things.
 
Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Is it true that all steel bolts threading into aluminum (for example, rocker pedestal bolts threading into the aluminum head - intake manifold bolts - header bolts - thermostat bolts - valve cover bolts) require anti-seize?

Thanks
Bob the Builder
 
Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Have assembled the timing cover and harmonic balancer to the block, and as soon as I get a few more oil pan studs, will be installing the pan to the block. However, can't drop the short block into the chassis yet because the trans seems to be stuck in park. I did disconnect the shifter cable previously to install new carpet, but I did not remove the shifter linkage lever on the transmission, and I have verified that the shifter linkage lever is moving when I move the gear shift. The only other thing I have done is use some slightly longer bolts for the bellhousing; and four of those thread into the transmission. It may not be anything I have done, the transmission may have just picked this moment to break.

[IMG=http://imageshack.com/a/img600/7214/dnkx.jpg][/IMG]Uploaded with ImageShack.com

Thanks
Bob
 
I pulled the trans out of the Ranchero earlier this week, then pulled the front pump off. The front pump / bellhousing bolts thread into a thickened extension of the case, and there are no rotating parts in their path. So, I don't think overly long bolts could have been the issue with the trans stuck in park (maybe this isn't an accurate description) or not rotating.

I could see the shift linkage inside the case and it appeared to be moving as it should. Will have to let a transmission shop (Circle D in Houston) figure it out. At least the trans will be freshly rebuilt when I fire up the new 250.

While I'm waiting for that, will continue to assemble the short block as much as possible.

Thanks
Bob
 
It turns out that the trans needed to be rebuilt anyway - worn clutches and bands.

On a case-fill C-4, the bolts that hold the transmission pump in are also the bolts that hold the bellhousing to the transmission. Turns out that the "stuck in park issue" was because when I installed the bellhousing, it fit onto the transmission pump so tightly that in the process of installing it, the pump broke loose from the transmission, the position became out of synch, and some teeth were broken off of the drum. The extra expense because of my mistake (a new drum) is about $90.

Thanks
Bob
 
Good work, that's why the C4 is sch a great little slushbox.

Same thing with the C3 automatic and FMX, and also Australian six cylinder C7 (1967 six to 1971), C9 (1969 to 1981) versions of the pan fill C4 that you have. They used an Australian bellhousing with a US import trans, but they were finish assembled as one unit. The bellhousing is a source of tension and preload if its replaced after the transmission being used in service.

Great thing is the C4 parts are the cheapest in the business, and a lot less exy than a new C3 or A4LD/5R55 front pump which needs to be changed anytime the bellhousing is changed.

Hope things progress well, and that yor able to enjoy yourself!
 
Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Background: this is a 250 from a '74 Maverick going into a '62 Ranchero. The Ranchero already had a case-fill C-4, which I retained, but with a new TCI bellhousing and 2,500 - 3,000 RPM-rated "Breakaway" torque converter, sized for the 157-tooth flexplate.

Between work, chiropractor visits (for my broken back), and holiday events, it's been a struggle to get Ranchero work done, but I finally reached this milestone.

Got the oil pan on (using studs), then the ARP head studs, head gasket and head. Dropped the long block into the chassis without headers, exhaust manifold, distributor, etc:

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/20/slzp.jpg][/IMG]

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/43/jfk8.jpg][/IMG]

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/577/6k6y.jpg][/IMG]

Lessons I learned: The torque converter pushes "in" (towards the trans) quite a bit more than is obvious - you have to rotate it and push several times. Also, the flexplate-to-crankshaft bolts are not in a symmetrical pattern; later I learned they are asymmetrical because the crank and flexplate are dynamically balanced to each other and must be reassembled in the same relative position.

The engine sits a bit more forward, and much lower than I expected: I had to remove the anti-sway bar because it interfered with the front sump oil pan. As a reminder, the radiator had already been moved as far forward as possible (by cutting the core support), and the steering centerlink flipped over to the bottom of the idler arm and pitman arm. I also relieved the firewall a bit for access to the center bellhousing bolts, but it turns out that was unnecessary.

I don't see any way that either stock Ranchero or Maverick motor mounts will work for this installation, trying to find a welder to help me make custom motor mounts. In the images below, on the driver's side I left the motor mount subframe on so that you can see how the subframe now falls between the motor mount boss bolt holes; and on the passenger side I took the motor mount subframe off so that you can see the relationship between the bottom of the shock tower (where the motor mount subframe attaches) and the motor mount boss on the block:

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/401/l1gx.jpg][/IMG]

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/c/833/8m5r.jpg][/IMG]

Thanks
Bob the Builder
 
You did a Great job on the engine detailing (y) :unsure: How much room do you have between the head and the firewall with the engine sitting as it is? It looks like the engine might be able to slide back some if your going to make the custom mounts, benefits would be better weight distribution and handling. Good luck you are making lots of progress considering your health condition it's no fun when you have back trouble :nod:
 
bubba22349":35lb8odc said:
You did a Great job on the engine detailing (y) :unsure: How much room do you have between the head and the firewall with the engine sitting as it is? It looks like the engine might be able to slide back some if your going to make the custom mounts. :nod:

@Bubba22349,

I have a considerable amount of room (maybe as much as four inches) between the head and the firewall, but I probably have half an inch or less that I can move the engine back without having to relocate the transmission mount. The transmission mount studs on the bottom of the transmission will hit the back of the slots in the crossmember at that point (I already elongated the slots as much as I could without weakening the crossmember). The frame rails are already like Swiss cheese with holes from previous trans crossmembers (who knows how many engine/trans swaps were done to this car before I got it; at least one), so really don't want to weaken them further by drilling more holes. I don't weld so having someone make a new crossmember for me would be expensive, especially if I had to have the car towed to them.

The previous engine (a 200) sat farther back (maybe 2" from firewall), but used the smaller six cylinder bellhousing. The 250 is using the larger SBF bellhousing, which protrudes a bit (1-2") farther into the engine compartment. The distance from the bellhousing mounting flange on the block, to the back of the head may also be a bit more on the 250.

Thanks
Bob
 
:boom: :fume: :smash: :shockin: :deadhorse: :banana: :wrench: :USA: :stick: Relax. :banghead:


There is a reason why the Schedahl brothers say never say never with empty box Ford production engineering. The new wine in old wineskins really confuses anyone who has been around any US, Canadian, British or Aussie Ford.

I'm pretty sure the SBF six bolt bellhousing with 157 flexplate came into being in the 1965 model year in 240 Ford I6's... one year before the five bolt 1963 to 1965 221/250/289 became the 1966 Windsor 6 bolt. The C4 then came in truck 164 and sedan 157 versions. The FMX 164 teeth bellhousing pattern then got duplicated in F100 trucks, with some Windsor 351's getting a 164 teeth C4 bell. The C5 bellhousing was based on this truck bellhousing, even the 200's got a 164 teeth deep bellhousing similar to the F100/F150 C4 transmissions. Some cars got shallow 157 teeth flexplate C4's which the 136 teeth 200's shared. Fact is, you can find many types of bell housing for case fills, a bewildering range. That's the way the McNamara era production engineering ran, total interchangabilty with the bare minimum of changes to make anything fit. It was an empty box, proprietry, sleeping dog method of cost reduction, and it worked so good, it saved Fords bacon. So Ford would do engine electric, head, block and bellhousing changes with seemingly no rime or reason, then suddenly a Ford engine would end up with another engines cylinder head, transmission or some kind of half breed block which was all 'politely speaking, effed up. Examples were

1. K code 289 and Q code 302 Windsor Tunnel Ports engine blocks with Cleveland 4V 351 heads with 1972-1983 302C closed chambers, = Boss 302
2. All gray low mount 1981 to 1983 200/3.3's getting a Truck 164 bellhousing depth for C4's and C5's, but the blue engines having shallow depth 136 or 138 teeth C3 or C4 bellhousings
3. 1965 240's getting six bolt blocks one year before the Windsor 260 and 289's did.
4. A neutral balance V8 160 Teeth Five bolt flexplates ending up on Aussie low, medium and tall deck 170/188/200/221/250 engines
5. A German 138 teeth 2.6/2.8/2.9/4.0 Cologne V6 flexplates with French built ending up on a large percentage blue 200 high mount 1978 to 1983 engines
6. The Cleveland/Windsor 351 firing order being included in bank fire CFI and smaller 255/302 engines form 1981 onwards so a 351 W cam could be used
7. Totally Scrapping the virile 351C/351 M and 400 Ford canted valve 335 series truck and sedan engines and heads in progressive rooll out from 1974 to 1983, with production tolling to Australia for factory made 1985 SVO cylinder blocks and closed chamber 302 57 cc heads, but then using the valve gear, firing order, bellhousing design and then fortifying the roller cam 302W and 351W engines with 4-BBL 4180 Holleys or CFI or port bank fire or sequential EFI, and then making them factory 302 Boss or 351 Boss beaters with mass produced Windsor components.
8. Cutting up the 250 six to make a 2.3/2.5 High Swirl Combustion headed I4 with a Mazda/Vulcan bellhousing, flywheel and flexplate, yet calling it 200 based when the camshaft spacing was 250, the deck height Aussie 250 on the 2.5, the crank strokes unlike anything else, and the carb and CFI injection standard wide stud , large carb hole log head. Yet the timing chain, serpentine drive and EECIV systems were sate of the art and light years ahead.
9. Keeping 6volt instrument electrics and protocols totally alive from 1932 to about 1984, with practically all the gauges and sensors IVR (Instrument Voltage Regulated), yet mixing the most advanced cutting edge EFI and electronic display and control systems (it eclipsed NASA with ex NASA rocket scientists adding anti lock units, flow meters, electronic speedo pickups, voice syth, vac fluro and mpg meter and ALDL protocols), yet absolutely penny and dime pinching everywhere else to use ancient parts from Noahs Ark. As such, the 1930 to 1984 Ford electrical and later electronic systems are a HAMB'ers delight, and allow us to run a 1960's small six on EDIS, CFI, EFI, Duraspark, TFI or put any gearbox and transmission combo we like behind any size engine.
 
Greetings Ford Six Fans,

Turns out that there was about 3" between the firewall and the head, and I was able to push the engine back about 1/4". I can't move it any farther back without relocating the transmission crossmember, which I don't want to do.

Picked up some 1/4" mild steel at Sears Hardware; used an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel to cut it and drilled out holes for the bolts using the new drill press (partially paid for by a Lowe's gift certificate I won in a raffle at work). With the help of a friend who can weld, made the motor mounts:

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/826/5r1g.jpg][/IMG]

[IMG=http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/150x100q90/21/5cmc.jpg][/IMG]

They'll undoubtedly look more finished when they're cleaned up and painted flat black. They're solid - I realize they'll transmit a lot of vibration to the frame, and I may attempt to make some insulated ones later.

Thanks
Bob the Builder
 
Greetings Ford Six Fans,

The homemade motor mounts cleaned up nicely:

https://imageshack.com/i/nawgu6j

They fit well enough to bolt them into the shock towers and onto the motor mount bosses, and the engine is now self-supporting:

https://imageshack.com/i/5bz2pyj

https://imageshack.com/i/1qj0exj

I'm certain the motor mounts could have been made better and with more precision, but this was my first time making motor mounts. Note the notch on the driver's side motor mount to accomodate the fuel pump and one of its bolts. There's also a cutout on that same one, at the bottom outside (by the shock tower) to accommodate the lower control arm.

The PowerMaster 9103 min-starter is now bolted up, and I have to make up a solenoid to starter cable before I can test it:

https://imageshack.com/i/15b69wj

The starter's soleniod falls in the 4-5 o'clock position, and comes within maybe 1/16" of the steering centerlink.

Thanks
Bob the Builder
 
:beer: looks like everything going to fit real nice, I like that starter too! (y)
 
Installed the CI stainless steel headers - didn't realize how great they would look! It's a real shame that they will be mostly covered by the intake manifold. The header installation was mostly uneventful, although I couldn't find the stainless steel bolts that came with the headers, so I had to pick up some from my local Sears Hardware.

https://imageshack.com/i/f2f03cj

The intake manifold was a bit more work - first I had to make gaskets. Used the manifold itself as a template to cut out a sheet of gasket material, then used a hole punch to punch out the bolt holes and an exacto knife to cut out the holes for the ports. Ended up using the studs on the top of the intake manifold flange, and some 1 1/4" bolts on the bottom of the intake manifold flange.

https://imageshack.com/i/10hsdkj

Working on fabbing and hooking up the fuel lines (3/8" coated steel from the gas tank to the engine compartment, 5/16" coated steel within the engine compartment, fuel injection grade rubber hose for small transition lengths only).

Pushrods and Holley "500 CFM" carburetor arrived over the weekend.

Thanks
Bob the Builder
 
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