Ford 300 Turbo Planning / Prep

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kredlebe

New member
Still in the early stages of planning but figured I would get a thread started, even just for my own updates or track my research. I found an EFI 300 I6 on ebay for about $300 (another $200 to ship to NY). Here’s my plan so far:

  • 88-96 EFI Block
    Holley EFI or MS, leaning towards Holly (Someone told me I will need to dyno it to be safe)
    Power band between 1500-5000 (Based on some research it will probably be to 3500)
    ~56 mm Turbo w/ internal BOV and wastegate (there's a thread talking about this, thats where I got the number)
    Larger Cam, would prefer not custom or one that puts my profile above power band
    8-10 PSI boost, max 15 psi
    Stock crank/rods (open to suggestions)
    Overbored 0.030
    Hypereutectic Pistons (I've noticed others use and were able to support boost small amounts of boost)
    shave top of block and head, stock head I read can handle 300 HP
    I am lost when it comes to valves, rockers, selecting cam profile and chamber CC, basically...heads confuse me.
    Custom fab header into turbo, I haven’t seen this so maybe a manifold is smarter?
    Ebay intercooler (I have to do the math to find which size will be necessary/best)
    Plans to connect to E40D transmission and put in my ‘94 F350
    Want to run on 87 if possible but depending on build i’d go up
    Not daily towing but would like to wheel it and daily it/ camp on the trail. 300HP would be my top goal
    Want to remove belt fan and use a beefier alternator
    Budget is 3K (max of 5K)
I still have a lot of research to do. I haven’t even got the engine yet but I don't want to dive in without a good plan. My goal isn't just to throw it in there to see if it works but actually build a strong lasting motor. I recently graduated with a Mechanical Engineering degree and have a decent amount of experience working on cars so I'm not totally lost. I have never done something this in depth before, so advice is welcome. I am in New York and heard of a shop called Aldo's Automotive Precision that I was going to inquire about the machine work.
 
Its an EFI engine so plan to use most everything on the engine to help the budget.
Use the intake manifold with whatever multiport unit you decide on.

The EFI exhaust manifolds are much more efficient than the earlier log style exhaust manifold.
If there is room to fit the turbo and use the EFI manifolds that would be good.

The head just needs to be rebuilt with stiffer valve springs and possibly a little porting in the bowl area.

Resize the stock rods with ARP bolts.

Pistons:
If you want to use a low octane pump gas then keep the compression ratio in the low eights.
Because the EFI head has small combustion chambers (68-69 cc) the piston will need a large dish volume.
There are 2 deep dish Hypereutectic pistons.
Speed Pro H554CP and KB/Silv-O-lite 3158H

Both pistons list the dish as 3.220 in. diameter, 0.300 in. deep recessed piston head.
The Speed Pro list the dish volume as 40 cc and the Silv-O-Lite list it as 32 cc.
If you do the math it comes out to 40 cc but the dish has a generous radius at the bottom so I would believe the 32 cc as being closer to actual. The only way to know for sure is to get a piston and check the volume yourself.

The Holset HX35 turbocharger is 56 mm and has been used for several turbo 300 projects.
It typically makes full boost just after 2000 rpm but there is boost available below that point which works for you since you will be using a torque converter.

This is the recommended camshaft for this type of application.
[image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3xw9p7ds0fye1t/Crower%20Cam2.jpg?raw=1[/image]
 
Ok, I'll dig into your recommendations. Everything else in the build plan look good for 300 hp? I am going to start locating parts and blueprinting and researching everything based on what I have listed here.

I am a little confused about what you mean by resizing of the stock rods? Is that just machining to accommodate the ARP bolts? I am lost when rebuilding a head so that is the first area of research, I'll post here after I get that sorted.

Thanks for the tips. Is there much of a risk about the block or head being damaged, I have heard the big six is pretty tough but I don't want to risk buying a damaged engine. They said it was taken on a 10 min test drive before the engine was removed.
 
kredlebe":1wnetb0f said:
I am a little confused about what you mean by resizing of the stock rods? Is that just machining to accommodate the ARP bolts?
Click to expand...

The ARP bolts have more of a clamping force on the connecting rod's big end than with the stock bolts
This may cause the big end bore to go out of round or the big end may be out of round over the many years of operation.
Also the center to center rod lengths between the six rods may not be the same from the factory.
The shop can take some material off the bottom of the rod beam to correct the rod length or take some off the cap if the rod length is ok.
Then the caps are put back on with the ARP bolts torqued to spec and the big end bore is honed back to round.

kredlebe":1wnetb0f said:
Thanks for the tips. Is there much of a risk about the block or head being damaged, I have heard the big six is pretty tough but I don't want to risk buying a damaged engine. They said it was taken on a 10 min test drive before the engine was removed.
Click to expand...
No problem on a 10 min test drive.
 
Gotcha, is it recommended to keep the valves, pushrods, lifters etc, get stiffer springs but just reseat the valves maybe new valve guides? Or is that bad news at your better off replacing the whole thing and just keeping the head, replace with stock parts and stiffer springs?

I also read that the deck high might vary from cylinder and you are wise to machine the block flat, I am assuming you would also want to do that with the head so it matches correctly. Will this cause issues with the piston extending too far and damaging the valves.

There we no issues that they reported on the drive, so I am thinking about pulling the trigger in the next few days.
 
If all the stock valves are ok then yes, the valves and seats will get redone.
The guides are usually ok but if not new guides get installed.
The valve stem seals will get replaced and you will get new valve springs and retainers based on the cam profile.
For moderate lift cam profiles in the .450" lift range you can use the stock rocker arms and pushrods.

But first the head will need to be checked by the shop for cracks typically in the combustion chamber area.

Since you are doing a low compression engine the block and head should just have a minimum cleanup cut taken off the surfaces.
That will insure they are straight and will also make a clean surface for the head gasket to seal against.

Are you handy with a die grinder and carbide burrs?

Where in NY are you. City, Long Island or Upstate?
 
I'm upstate. I have done valve re-seating on small engines and just watched a few videos and the principle is the same. I have no issue, and would enjoy doing the valve work by myself. If I can reuse the stock valves, do I need to give them the head assembled or can I remove everything from it and just give them the actual head. Will the Crower recommend the spring and retainer? Is that some math that I can figure out and order myself?

The guy in the video (Monster Horsepower) did a quick valve leak test himself. I am just seeing $$ when it comes to having a machine shop do anything and then I don't get to learn it.

I am pretty good with die grinder, I'd like to as much work as makes sense by myself since this is something I want to start getting into. This is my first project so the more I learn the more I can use.
 
You remove everything from the head, clean it and give the bare head to the shop to be Magnafluxed for cracks.
Then if it passes bring it home to work on.

The Ford 4.9 uses a 45 deg seat .040" wide. The angle below the seat going into the bowl is 60 degrees and the angle above the seat into the combustion chamber is 30 deg.
The goal is to cut all the 45 deg seats at the same depth so when the head is assembled there are only a few thousands difference in valve stem tip height.
You can also pick up additional flow by doing a 30 deg back cut on the valve head just behind the seat area.
http://enthusiastnetwork.s3.amazonaws.c ... nd%7C29:16

There are only a few single valve springs that fit the 4.9 head.
The stock valve springs have around 80 lbs of seat pressure when the valves are closed and a spring rate close to 300 lbs/in
The stock cam valve lift is just under .400" making the open valve pressure near 200 lbs.

When you are turbocharging an engine you are putting pressure behind the valve so it is important to increase seat pressure.
The next available single springs are the Crane 96803 with 107 lbs seat @ 1.700" and a rate of 330 lbs/in
and the Comp 942 with 115 lbs seat @ 1.700" and a rate of 339 lbs/in.

The 1965 to 1984 head valves are 4.810" long and the later heads like yours are shorter at 4.750"
The early head valve springs install at a 1.700" spring height while the spring installation height for the later heads are shorter.
You will need to check the installed spring height on the intake valve when you get the head off.

You can follow up with port work mainly in the bowl area to complete the head package.
[image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/x853ry552te3led/IMG_1988.jpg?raw=1[/image]
 
I'm going to call this the optional post.
The better the head flows the less boost is required to make the target power and requires less gas octane to run without detonation.

The top chamber is from the pre 1987 carburetor head while the middle is the later EFI head chamber.
As you can see the EFI heart shaped chamber shrouds the intake valve in order to promote swirl and faster mixture burn.
What we see on the flow bench is a restriction to flow until the valve lifts past .350" and clears the combustion chamber.

The bottom picture shows an unshrouded chamber on the right compared to the stock chamber on the left.
The unshrouded chamber allows larger valves to be installed.
Here's where your die grinder skills come in.

[image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/3otgaspk7o5wofw/Carburetor%20Head%20chamber.jpg?raw=1[/image][image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ptkp5rion6qfjsa/Stock%20EFI%20chamber%202.JPG?raw=1[/image]
[image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/0k6115t6fst229s/Unshrouded%20EFI%20chamber%202.jpg?raw=1[/image]
 
I would want to clean the bowl/combustion chamber portion, remove shroud without damaging the seat right? How touchy is the valve seat? Is the goal here to install larger valves? if that is the case then the existing valve seat would not work correct?

I am ok with cleaning up and removing the shroud but I wouldn't be comfortable altering the existing valve seat for a bigger valve, my head knowledge is very limited. I'm basically researching every topic you describe in your post with regards to heads. I definitely will polish everything, I have the majority of the tools required. It might even be possible to determine the valve spring strength based on the boost pressure right? I will probably take your word for it but just trying to understand.
 
Based on your reply keep the stock valves, clean the bowl/combustion chamber portion, remove shroud without damaging the seat.
The seats will damage quickly if you hit them with a cutting or polishing tool. You can put an old Chevy small block valve in place to protect the valve seat while working in the combustion chamber. Do the valve job last.

The large unshrouding job you see was to install larger valve. You can unshroud using a 45 degree slope from the chamber floor to the head surface. Most of the work is on the intake side. The exhaust is not shrouded as bad.

You need to measure the stock intake valves installed height then decide what valve spring should be used.
Boost elevates the need for seat pressure and the max rpm determines open valve spring pressure.
We know what spring pressures work from past experience.
 
While we're talking about work on the combustion chamber. I'm doing a turbo as well and I was concerned about hot spots causing detonation so I rounded the sharp edges in the chamber. especially the point of the heart shape and a small radius all around the chamber at the deck surface. I may have hurt some of the turbulating effect that the Ford engineers were looking for, But I'm expecting the boosted inflow to more than make up for this loss.
I haven't run my engine yet, so can't report on how it works.
 
John
Nice job setting up twin turbos.
I'm very interested the response you will get with the two small turbos.
 
Is hotspots that much of a concern with the turbo? Is it because the increased volatility of the mixture using a turbo? I expected an intercooler to help eliminate some of that, I saw one guys used meth injection to keep the temps down but that's beyond the goal of my project.

How's much of an advantage of clearing the whole shoud vs just cleaning up the points? I do want to polish the intake since it's cast and it seems satisfying. I was also wondering if anyone had input on the benefit of roller lifters / rocks. My goal has been a cheap stock build but I have also read that some things are worth doing while your in there even at the increased cost. The aluminum timing gear I though was clever.

Interesting that Ford used phenolic as I have been working with that material at my job, it's apparently a mess to machine.

I am looking to finalize some logistics and order the big six tonight, been struggling to pull the trigger because there is so much I don't know yet.
 
Hot spots: In general if you are already polishing the combustion chamber it is good practice to radius all edges.
Sharp edges run hotter than smooth or flat surfaces.

As previously discussed if you unshroud by doing a simple 45 deg. angle from the chamber floor up to the head surface, the distance from the edge of the valve to the camber wall is equal to the distance the valve is open. In other words the two "curtain" areas are the same at any valve lift until the valve lifts above the head surface.

Roller lifters are not needed until the valve lift approaches .500"
At that point there have been problems with the stock style rocker pivot balls squeaking even after trying some that have grooves for better lubrication.
The EFI engine (like the one you are looking at) has non adjustable pedestal mount rockers that bolt down to the head.
The only pedestal mount roller rockers available for the Ford 4.9 are the Scorpion 1059 and they are a 1.73 ratio. Stocker rocker arm ratio is 1.6

To convert to a stud mount roller rocker to get different ratios the EFI head needs to be drilled an tapped for rocker studs and would also need pushrods guides.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/raics8rx0g9rx ... 5.JPG?dl=0

One problem with the EFI head is it has shorter valves and the valve spring retainer runs into the valve guide near .500" valve lift.
If more valve lift is needed you would use the longer pre 1985 valves.

Anyway after all the above, since the Crower cam only has a .448" valve lift you would use the stock rocker arms.

Yes, You will want to switch to metal timing gears.
 
Pmuller9

When you unshroud the valve with a 45 degree cut, did you notice a change in ignition timing needed?
 
Wesman07":22g9hn1u said:
Pmuller9
When you unshroud the valve with a 45 degree cut, did you notice a change in ignition timing needed?
Click to expand...
That's a sore spot. Very short story.
The engine the head was used on was assembled and run on a Dyno 1100 miles from me.
The shop installed a much smaller catalog camshaft than the custom cam I recommended.
The engine made at least 25 hp less than goal because of that.
I didn't get any further feedback including ignition timing.
In any event I couldn't rely on any info that they might have given me at that point.
 
Went to harbor freight to get an engine stand before purchasing the engine and they are all out. No plans to get any until everything opens back up. Any recommendations? I was going to go with a "Big Red" stand off amazon. I want to be able to torque on the stand without fear of dropping the engine, I also want it to be able to handle the 351W I am pulling out.
 
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