3G 1 wire alternator belt squeal

C

charliecurrie

Well-known member
I've replaced the small alternator pulley with a larger hipo pulley - that sorta, but not completely, stopped the morning first start squeal and eliminated subsequent start up squeals. However, I traded that for a squeal after every red light.

I then painted the crank and water pump pulleys - their grooves were bare metal and I noticed that everyone painted their pulleys after a rebuild or freshen up. That completely eliminated all start up squeals and greatly reduced the red light squeal to a chirp. If I use my brake like a clutch when leaving a light, it doesn't squeal at all.

Now to eliminate that last little annoyance, what have you got?

I was thinking maybe, if I have the space, I could use the next size up belt - mine is a snug fit - like rolling a ring over a piston.

Thanks
 
Because of their higher amp output these alternators really need to use a double (two) belt pulley or a serpentine type belt system for the best results. Even the higher amp 1G alternators were using a two belt pulley system as far back as the mid 1960's. Good luck :nod:
 
Make sure your belt is not bottomed in the pulley groove?
 
bubba22349":bulpprga said:
Because of their higher amp output these alternators really need to use a double (two) belt pulley or a serpentine type belt system for the best results. Even the higher amp 1G alternators were using a two belt pulley system as far back as the mid 1960's. Good luck :nod:
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Yes, this is an option at this point, but I'm planning on putting in power steering in the fall and ac next spring and that will preclude using a double pulley.

I'm not aware of a serpentine setup for a Ford 200 ci.
 
Soldmy66":2drnctnd said:
Try spraying the pulley faces with hairspray.
Click to expand...

Ha, there's a new one. I'll grab a can of Aqua Net at the 99 cent store next time I'm in.

If nothing else, it'll be good for a laugh.

Thanks
 
charliecurrie":3aauhp5z said:
I'm not aware of a serpentine setup for a Ford 200 ci.
Click to expand...

C.I. Mike (AzCoupe) Was working on offering a billet serpentine drive setup for the small block six'es severial years ago, sadly it didn't get finished beyond a prototype or maybe a few sets. So if you wanted to go the surpenetine route you would need to use parts like pulleys, plus mod a few parts from a 4.9 / 300 big six or other engines to build your own set up. :nod:
 
charliecurrie":346xerc0 said:
Soldmy66":346xerc0 said:
Try spraying the pulley faces with hairspray.
Click to expand...

Ha, there's a new one. I'll grab a can of Aqua Net at the 99 cent store next time I'm in.

If nothing else, it'll be good for a laugh.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I used to use it on my motocross hand-grips. When wet, it acted like a lubricant and helped the grips slide onto the handlebars. Once it dried, it held the grips firmly in place and I never had an issue with them twisting.

I also know there are commercial belt dressings that allegedly reduce belt slippage, but I have never tried them.

Might be worth a try.
 
charliecurrie":2vxqnypl said:
wsa111":2vxqnypl said:
Make sure your belt is not bottomed in the pulley groove?
Click to expand...

If so, then a wider belt?
Click to expand...

Yes a too narrow belt width is going to be at the bottom of the pulleys grove so instead of the belt being gripped fulley on both its sides as V belts are designed to do, it's only making contact in a much smaller area of the bottom of the belt. If the V Belt is touching the bottom of the grove it's the wrong belt width. The top of the belt should sit up above the pulley a little. :nod:
 
lotsa stuff developed to upgrade a bent8 to serp.
We don't have alot on i6 but X and others hada good thread goin here.
Need to look up in the search function. Had some good pic too.
Love to geta prts list (compatible pulleys, etc) goin. One even had extra
spaces for extra accessories, idler pulley, etc...

I can list out a 3 groove crank pulley (on mine) but it aint serp...
Last? don't forget the ford alt upgrade (3g, "1 wire" is gm both
same power, internal regulators) and that we can press off or key-
wayed many V groove'n put on the serp pulleys, no?...
 
chad":1kll3iz3 said:
lotsa stuff developed to upgrade a bent8 to serp.
We don't have alot on i6 but X and others hada good thread goin here.
Need to look up in the search function. Had some good pic too.
Love to geta prts list (compatible pulleys, etc) goin. One even had extra
spaces for extra accessories, idler pulley, etc...

I can list out a 3 groove crank pulley (on mine) but it aint serp...
Last? don't forget the ford alt upgrade (3g, "1 wire" is gm both
same power, internal regulators) and that we can press off or key-
wayed many V groove'n put on the serp pulleys, no?...
Click to expand...

Couldn't find the thread you're talking about - I have a hard time with the search function.

Not understanding your 3g / gm 1 wire comment.
 
the GM wuz/is called "1 wire", ford hada better idea. Both came out in the 80s (at my age it's all achient history, not sure of anything). The ford is better, I think, but is actually '4 wire' (only 1 or 2 leave the 'case'). One or 2 just link around the case & plug back into a lug on there, itself.

I'm really poor w/auto ele. Let me see if I can find some info, get back (I don't think I put it in my archive, hafta go online but it seemed recent). That & 'dressing the frnt of the engine' R 2 of the more glaring topics I need lots more knowledge on...

Back later...
EDIT:
yeah, here it is, C if I can post a pic:
no, my system is "fkd up"
try this:
fordmuscleforums.com/threads/changong=to-1-wore-alternator.656022/#post-1629590164
see #8 for the back schematic of the ford 3G.
This duz no thing for the idea of the one belt/serp frnt dress we all (U'n I anyway) lust after. I - bcuz of having end goals of a pull pal mig, 2 batteries, this alternator's big bro (something over 200 amp to run the welder), an air compressor (I'm an off roader), sno plow pump, & all the usual...
OK, Nuttin in my archive.
I w3nt back to 8/19 on the search function for the one or 2 threads on "sm 6" serp system & will not spend more of my time for U, sorry, lota wrk. That's too soon anyway - seems like 5 yrs ago? At some point I will for myself (will def archive them then) as they were beautiful pix (X's? powerband's? they have extensive pic archive archives). Some 1 else may chime in here...
 
I went to find the pictures for Mike's serpentine system that used to be on the C.I. site I guess they are long gone now. Luckily found them in an old site post. Below you can see those Pictures showing "Mike's (AZCoupe)" C.I. Serpentine Front Drive System design and development for a 200 six aplacation. It's designed to use an upgraded 3G Alternator, and a Sanderson style AC Compressor in a really nice compact design, plus there's still room to add Power Steering on the other side if you wanted to use that too. i shamelessly lifted these pic's from an older post thank you "Xctasy", there is also three following posts that has some info on the parts that were or can be used. In "Xctasy's" (see the link) full post there are also the pictures of "Mike1157"'s 250 six Serpentine drive system that's also quite semular, and the posts in that link can also fill in much more info on parts selections. As you can see its very possable to make a serpentine drive system from mostly stock Ford parts and a little work so that it can fit on a 144, 170, 200, and 250 small six'es (see info for 250's in the original posts). I think this is might be everything that is known on Mike AZCoupe's serpentine front drive system design and thats now edited into one post. Enjoy :nod:

The C.I. 200 Small Six Serpentine Drive System orginal post with pictures, can be found here in this interesting group of posts on how to Upgrade to 3G Alternator and Duel Electric Fans.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76989&p=618526&hilit=Serpentine+drive#p592539

xctasy":1sp79jtt said:
The big problem is that no one decides to use the serpentine belt drive that comes stock with every Taurus or 4.9 EFi Effie truck.

Mike had a conversion nutted out, but its gone from the Classic Inlines website, beause the supplier did the dirty on Mike W and Broncitis

Old links were "http://www.classicinlines.com/images/alumahead/install2a.jpg"

install2b-jpg.124807


and

"http://www.classicinlines.com/images/alumahead/install2b.jpg"
install2a-jpg.124808
Click to expand...

By "bubba22349", Then there was another post following the above post with a question about the parts used in the C.I. Serpentine Drive and after that was "Xctasy's" answer with a follow up response by "67straightsix" with some more parts info. I also inserted two extra links in Xctasy's post after his comment about "Rick Wrench's pulley design, one for Rick Wrench's billet water pump pulley design and Mike 1157's 250 six water pump solution as a way to use the shorter 200 water pump."

gus91326":1sp79jtt said:
Does anyone know where to source the:
Water pump pulley, damper and idler in this image?
install2b-jpg.124807
Click to expand...

xctasy":1sp79jtt said:
The supplier did the dirty on Mike W and Broncitus.The water pump pulley was a revised copy of RickWrench's brothers aluminum 4-1/8 long snout water pump design.

Search RickWrench's user profile and posts from the lower bottom right Member profiles. Great guy, his associations and inteligent work practices are an inspiration to us all.

"Here's the link for Rick Wrench's billet short water pump pulley that the above serpentine pulley was designed from.
viewtopic.php?f=106&t=77151&hilit=Rick+wrench+water+pump+pulley"

"Mike1157 water pump set up link, for addistion ideas."
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76628&p=589906&hilit=Rick+wrenches+water+pump+pulley#p589906

The idler was ex Windsor/Cleveland serpentine belt system.Search on the intetnet for Cleveland Serpentine drive idler.

Its a common part used on those.

The crankshaft pulley was ex Modular 4.6, IIRC.
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67Straightsix":1sp79jtt said:
You can use a water pump pulley from a 95 Ranger . One of the 90's Taurus uses a bolt on crank pulley that slips over the two groove damper on the 200. You will need to make a spacer and drill holes to line up with the holes in the damper. I used idler pulleys from 95 V-6 mustang. That will get you close to the configuration of the picture.
gus91326":1sp79jtt said:
Does anyone know where to source the:
Water pump pulley, damper and idler in this image?

install2b.jpg
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
boy, guess I wuz "off" a few years...eh?
WoW just heard da bell...
(chimes in)
 
:shock: well on that group of posts its only a couple years more Chad. I still don't know the real date or time frame that Mike's Serpentine Drive system was being designed I suspect it's well over 10 years ago, I bet that Xctasy probably knows. :nod:
 
yes, if that's from '08/9 I came here about then. I had used the net since abt '92 (10 yrs after vehicle purchase) mostly the Mid'Lantic bronk 'club'for contact/research/comradeship around the vehicle (started 'surfin' in '82 around 'human systems', my employ). The current premier site (CB dot com) was young. The adolescent attitudes there (they harassed, laughed off and were simply un-gentlemanly enuff) that I think he pointed me here. I followed him over.
Full disclosure? they have improved on that site'n I visit w/o hassle now. Is it the rising sale price on the bronk? Certainly more 'keep' the i6 now (what the testosterone fulled cerfuffel was abt). At any-rate, like the other 'auto' sites visited - I all ways cite HERE, Matt & the Schjeldahl Bros. when seeing the possibility of aid. After yrs stuck on the slanty (1964/82) I am fully invested in 'our' site & our 'falcon' motors. Folks never turned me away here by "attitude" or anything else...

Who nows? may B for my 70s and 80s (the nxt 20 yr interest) I may get hooked on the smooth Jag 3.4, 3.6, 4.0 & their OHC & :unsure: & their use of superchargers...mmm...no, may B...Bemier 3.2, 3.4 turbos...mmmm, nah. I don't think so... :nono:
 
:shock: what happened to all the serpentine drive pictures now, spent all that time yesterday putting it all together? Even Xctasy's original pictures in his post (were I pulled them from) are not showing too maybe it's a problem on Stangnet's web site? :banghead:
 
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