200ci with 3 freeze plugs?

Dr_Dan_WWW

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My engine block shows C6DE-6015-A. It's in my brother's '66 Bronco, which I restored over the past year, but I didn't do anything inside the engine. So I haven't looked around inside (I haven't dropped the oil pan to see how many bearings). I assumed it was a 170ci because it has three frost plugs on the passenger side. But check this out from fordsix.com/ci/Ident-2 page:

Here's how to figure out what size the block is. Identification can be made with a quick glance at three items on the motor, the water pump, number of freeze plugs, and the block code (found on the road draft tube mounting boss). The only trick is determining the difference between a 170ci 4 main and a 200ci 4 main, if there is no block code, as both engines had a three bolt water pump and three freeze plugs. The only way I know of for sure, is to verify the bore size. If I learn of another method, I'll let you know.

250ci -7 main: 4 bolt water pump and 5 freeze plugs.
200ci -7 main: 3 bolt water pump and 5 freeze plugs.
[highlight=yellow]200ci -4 main: 3 bolt water pump and 3 freeze plugs.[/highlight]
170ci -4 main: 3 bolt water pump, 3 freeze plugs, and a "T" code (or no code).
144ci -4 main: 3 bolt water pump, 3 freeze plugs, and an "N" code.


Could I have a 200ci? I could because I think my brother burned up the engine in Nevada back in the 90s (I can't ask him now - he's got dementia). Then he burned up the head a couple of times too. Has everything been replaced? The head reads C5DE 6090-A... whatever at this point. The whole thing coulda been swapped out, mixed and matched.

Questions:
1. do any 200ci's really have three freeze plugs (like FordSix suggests)?
2. do any 200ci's really have four main bearings?
3. any other ways to determine the CI of the engine - before I have to tear it apart (without having to measure bore size)?

I am not a I6 guru like y'all. But I'd like to look into a 2V Conversion with a later head and get some more power out of this little engine.

'66 uncut Bronco. 170ci stock (I assume). DUI HEI dist (5/16" drive), new ARG. Holley 1904 1V carb.
 
Hi, my guess is that the engine is a 170. All the early 144s had the small bell housing bolt pattern. Probably true for the 170 and 200s made early. I think by 1966 the 144 was gone and the small sixes were drilled for both large and small bell housings. So my guess is the earliest 200s, 4 main bearing engines could not accept the required bigger bell housing for the mighty 9" clutch in a Bronco. If the early 200 was drilled for the bigger bell housing someone here will know. Good luck with your Bronco
 
In answer to your above questions

The above info is correct however it neglects to state the years of these engines or the block casting / design numbers that they apply to, which then can cause some confusion. Ford stopped using the stamped block codes (T or N) in 1963 or 64 and around that same time the road draft tube boss was also eliminated. The 144 cu in. Engines weren't used after the 1964 year model either. So that said your engine can't be a 200 block with that later C6DE-6015-A block number. The C5DE-6090-A head may also still be the original head (this all depends on the Bronco's assembly date) check for the heads date code to be able to know.

1. Yes the first year 200's (1964 C4DE-6015-A) had three freeze plugs. These 200's are quite rare it's my belief that most of them were used in the 1964 Fairlane's or 64 Mercury Meteors. They were supposed to also be an option in the 1964 Falcons or Comets too maybe in the fully optioned upscale models like a Futura though you don't often find original examples.

2. Yes again these first year 200's did have four main bearings this configuration was a made for only that one year. 1965 was the first year of the 7 main bearing blocks this configuration was used until the end of 200 production. Every so often a four main 200 stroke crankshaft will turn up for sale these can be put into the 170 blocks (or a 144) to build a stroker version of 188 cu. in. + any over bore of the right compression height Pistons making a nice engine combo with a little more torque.

3. Yes in this case since your block has a C6DE-6015-A Casting / Design number this means it's at least a 1966 year block, as such with the three freeze plugs it can only be a 170 engine short block. You can also check the Date Code of the block to see if it's possablely the orginal block for your 1966 Bronco. These look like a small metal plate with a screw head on each end of it, it will also have two or three numbers and one letter. Hope that is of some help to you, best of luck (y) :nod:
 
Well, I knew you folks would know. After I posted I went and checked the air cleaner and it said 170. But I didn't know if the engine was the original or not. So the air cleaner may not match anymore. I couldn't find the assembly date tag. According to my understanding of the frame VIN this was number 7,119 in production. Also, as I put the Bronco back together, I saw lots of cryptic markings like "Aug 65" on various parts, mechanical and body. So - yeah it WAS a 170 and most likely STILL IS especially after your input.

I am going to look for a 200 and hop up the head some. I'm near Kansas City. If anyone knows an inline 6 engine performance builder in my area, I'd sure would like to hear from you. I don't plan on racing my washing-machine-chassis early Bronco, but I'd like to be able to get up the hill on the highway faster than 40mph. Like the man said, "If it were meant to go fast, it wouldn't be shaped like a brick."

I've fallen in love with the inline six. I dunno why. Maybe I like the simple smallness of it. Maybe because my brother drove it that way for 45 years prospecting for gold out west (did I mention his favorite tool was wire?) Maybe I like the I6 because that's what the early earliest Broncos had - and I want to keep that idea together. Then again, maybe I like the I6 because my very first car was a '70 Maverick, and my dad and I rebuilt the head when I was 18y.o.

Thanks for the help. If you care to offer guidance on swapping over to a 200 and working on the head a bit to try and get up the hill better, then I'd appreciate it. Yes, I have The Falcon Handbook and I've read it over and over for the past year. One more thing, there's no need to use cuss words here, so don't say or suggest "automatic" and especially don't say "a*r cond*t*on*ng.
 
Many of the parts will have date codes on them here is a picture of what a block or head casting "Date Code" looks like. http://www.fordification.com/tech/image ... tecode.jpg

From your finding assembly codes of Aug 1965 I would say your Bronco is likely a very early 1966 year model build, when I worked at the Ford assembly plant they started getting ready for the new model change over in late June to be ready for production by mid July. The build date is going to be on the drivers side warranty door tag it looks like this. https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/12181438 ... -l1000.jpg

Yes all of us here are quite parchal to these great little six'es and the 200 is worth while easy upgrade that gives a good boost in torque and power over a 170. As far as a 200 cu. in. engine swap its practally a direct bolt in for most 200's the exceptions are some late models in 1980 to 1982 that had a bigger bell housing to my knowledge these were only used on the cars with a C5 auto trans so best to stay away from them. Otherwise latest year (1980 to 83) 200 or 250 head is the one to get. So the 200's with the standard bell housings bolt right in place of the current 170 in your Bronco. All you need to do is remove the 170 swap It's oil pan and its oil pump pick up tube onto the 200 long or short block, put the tin block plate on off the 170, install a new input shaft bushing into the chrankshaft, then bolt the flywheel, clutch, and bell housing on and it's ready to install into the Bronco's chassis. Best of luck (y) :nod:
 
I really appreciate the encouragement. This makes me believe I can get this done. I have a solid lead on 200 out of a '66 Mustang that runs well. Ok. I didn't know you were talking about the little plate on the kick panel. I was looking on the engine.

https://imgur.com/a/01ncpd9
 
Here is a 250 over in Knoxville. The thing about the 250 is you don't have to spend money hopping it up like the 200-it already has torque built in. But a little more work to install and you may want to mod the oil pan at least that is what I have decided to do because I am going to reduce my front suspension lift. At $350 that is cheapest performance upgrade you can find. Put some thought into an od transmission.

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=80905
 
Thanks for the lead on the 250. I looked at it. I think I need to stay closer to home and closer to the 200 so I don't have to do too much fabricating.
 
I can understand that. The other link is for a hopped up 200 in the KC area close to you.
 
'73/4 oem only - but, with a rear sump, D30 &a D20. Ck the rear end gears (spin tire, count DS rotations).

U have a rig that never came w/a top of any kind. Doors were an option, a bench seat hada bulkhead behind it sectioning off the back likea 80s Scrambler, tire mounted onit there, and the nice rear views ona stalk type arm. Budd made the 1st few bodies till ford got up ta steam, 1/2 way thru the yr started puttin the 289 in. I'd haveta go to BroncOhio to ck their tag decoder but yours might have had one. Did I send U over here w/a referral/link ona nother site? When 'they' ask abt the 'facon' motor (or ThriftPower, proper named) I send them here...
 
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