Valve train clatter

Econoline":1nj5ae70 said:
Can you depress the lifters? Is it possible that when installed the lifters were fully pumped to the top and can't bleed down now?

During the first couple of times I tried to adjust the rockers, as I would tighten them to zero lash and stop, a couple of the lifters would sink enough for the rod to become loose enough to twist. But, only a couple, not all.

I tried depressing them yesterday when the rocker assembly was off and they didn't seem to move at all.

I'll have to pull the head and remove them to really be certain.
 
It’s not as easy and a bit messy but before you pull it apart why not try adjusting them with the engine running. Loosen til they tick snug til they stop then go 1/4 turn more. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Are you measuring your lash adjustment or doing zero lash and half a turn?

I do a collapsed lifter lash. Holding the lifter compressed and measuring between the rocker and valve stem.

Ford manual for '63 shows 0.067"-0.200" lash for hydraulic lifers. Of course for OEM lifters. I shoot for the middle.

Maybe an issue with those Sealed Power lifters?
 
charliecurrie":119juli2 said:
During the first couple of times I tried to adjust the rockers, as I would tighten them to zero lash and stop, a couple of the lifters would sink enough for the rod to become loose enough to twist.
This may be the problem.
That is not zero lash!
Zero lash is when the pushrod barely begins to get tight and the lifter plunger is NOT depressed.

Then you go another 1/2 turn from there and the lifter plunger depresses about .050"

Did I read you correctly?
 
pmuller9":3jfcr81y said:
charliecurrie":3jfcr81y said:
During the first couple of times I tried to adjust the rockers, as I would tighten them to zero lash and stop, a couple of the lifters would sink enough for the rod to become loose enough to twist.
This may be the problem.
That is not zero lash!
Zero lash is when the pushrod barely begins to get tight and the lifter plunger is NOT depressed.

Then you go another 1/2 turn from there and the lifter plunger depresses about .050"

Did I read you correctly?

I did it like you stated. The plunger appeared to depress after i came to zero lash.
 
frozenrabbit":3qxi6gj3 said:
Are you measuring your lash adjustment or doing zero lash and half a turn?

I do a collapsed lifter lash. Holding the lifter compressed and measuring between the rocker and valve stem.

Ford manual for '63 shows 0.067"-0.200" lash for hydraulic lifers. Of course for OEM lifters. I shoot for the middle.

Maybe an issue with those Sealed Power lifters?

The initial adjustment was 0 + 1/2. Valves hung open.
 
bubba22349":2wfmcegm said:
It’s not as easy and a bit messy but before you pull it apart why not try adjusting them with the engine running. Loosen til they tick snug til they stop then go 1/4 turn more. Good luck (y) :nod:

Adjusting with the engine running was the only way to figure out when the valves were actually closed - steady idle and steady vacuum needle. However, ended up with a very loose and noisy valve train.
 
charliecurrie":x6ff4yun said:
I did it like you stated. The plunger appeared to depress after i came to zero lash.
Then it looks like the lifter is collapsed.
There should be a spring under the plunger that keeps it up against the retaining clip.
The lifters have a problem.
 
pmuller9":15kzg9ph said:
charliecurrie":15kzg9ph said:
I did it like you stated. The plunger appeared to depress after i came to zero lash.
Then it looks like the lifter is collapsed.
There should be a spring under the plunger that keeps it up against the retaining clip.
The lifters have a problem.

Yeah, the lifters certainly seem to be the problem.
 
charliecurrie":2ezqebxd said:
bubba22349":2ezqebxd said:
It’s not as easy and a bit messy but before you pull it apart why not try adjusting them with the engine running. Loosen til they tick snug til they stop then go 1/4 turn more. Good luck (y) :nod:

Adjusting with the engine running was the only way to figure out when the valves were actually closed - steady idle and steady vacuum needle. However, ended up with a very loose and noisy valve train.

Update:

Replaced adjustable rocker assembly with non-adjustable rockers and push rods. Obviously, it quieted down, but ran like crap. Neutral idle was ok but in gear it was making some odd noises and idled ruff. Vacuum was lower also.

Had to put the adjustable rockers back on and put up with the clatter.

I'm thinking it has something to do with the lifters. Thinking I'll replace them and put in the stock cam I have on the shelf.

Ok great now what's the condition of the adjustable rocker assembly? Dose the shaft show any signs of wear under each of rocker arms position, and or for the rocker arm bushings? The Info stated from your above update leads me to believe that the adjustable set of rockers may have quite a bit of wear in them compared to the non adjustable set. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
charliecurrie":2ckqgv6r said:
drag-200stang":2ckqgv6r said:
Did you degree the cam ?
Is the cam spacer on the cam behind the pin with the inside bevel toward the journal, not to be confused with the cam retainer ?
Is it possible that the valves are closing and the the cam duration is making lower vacuum and rougher idle than you expected ?
Loose lash will get better vacuum and better idle because it cuts down on duration, cannot run it that way .

All good questions. Thanks.

At this point, I have no other option than to pull it apart, inspect everything and put it back together.
Yes they are good questions and the first two must be done but the third is not important or you could be chasing your tail.
If you take out the lifters they should be put back in the same place that they where broke in at.
New cams should be lubed with brake in lube paste on the lifter face and cam lobes and ran at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes with no idling.
I have no experience with hyd. lifters so I cannot help there.
 
I would put an oil pressure gauge in to see your oil pressure.
If low there maybe a front lifter galley plug that popped out????
 
wsa111":2fcfe0wy said:
I would put an oil pressure gauge in to see your oil pressure.
If low there maybe a front lifter galley plug that popped out????
X2 (y) Could be temporary and taped where it can be seen.
 
bubba22349":3sk2g60h said:
charliecurrie":3sk2g60h said:
bubba22349":3sk2g60h said:
It’s not as easy and a bit messy but before you pull it apart why not try adjusting them with the engine running. Loosen til they tick snug til they stop then go 1/4 turn more. Good luck (y) :nod:

Adjusting with the engine running was the only way to figure out when the valves were actually closed - steady idle and steady vacuum needle. However, ended up with a very loose and noisy valve train.

Update:

Replaced adjustable rocker assembly with non-adjustable rockers and push rods. Obviously, it quieted down, but ran like crap. Neutral idle was ok but in gear it was making some odd noises and idled ruff. Vacuum was lower also.

Had to put the adjustable rockers back on and put up with the clatter.

I'm thinking it has something to do with the lifters. Thinking I'll replace them and put in the stock cam I have on the shelf.

Ok great now what's the condition of the adjustable rocker assembly? Dose the shaft show any signs of wear under each of rocker arms position, and or for the rocker arm bushings? The Info stated from your above update leads me to believe that the adjustable set of rockers may have quite a bit of wear in them compared to the non adjustable set. Good luck (y) :nod:

The adjustable rockers were on this engine (and a previous one) before the new cam was installed and worked just fine.
 
drag-200stang":18sfuf6j said:
charliecurrie":18sfuf6j said:
drag-200stang":18sfuf6j said:
Did you degree the cam ?
Is the cam spacer on the cam behind the pin with the inside bevel toward the journal, not to be confused with the cam retainer ?
Is it possible that the valves are closing and the the cam duration is making lower vacuum and rougher idle than you expected ?
Loose lash will get better vacuum and better idle because it cuts down on duration, cannot run it that way .

All good questions. Thanks.

At this point, I have no other option than to pull it apart, inspect everything and put it back together.
Yes they are good questions and the first two must be done but the third is not important or you could be chasing your tail.
If you take out the lifters they should be put back in the same place that they where broke in at.
New cams should be lubed with brake in lube paste on the lifter face and cam lobes and ran at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes with no idling.
I have no experience with hyd. lifters so I cannot help there.

Answer to question one - no.
...two - yes.
...three - no.
The cam was broke in as you stated.
 
wsa111":1203zfrs said:
I would put an oil pressure gauge in to see your oil pressure.
If low there maybe a front lifter galley plug that popped out????

I've never had an oil pressure issue with this engine and the last time I put a gauge on it it was over 40 at idle - of course that doesn't mean it still is. However, there is so much oil passing over the valve train I have to cover the plug wires to keep them from getting soaked. Made the mistake of running the rpm to around 3k - it was a gusher.

Also, the idiot light hasn't come on and I know it works from past experience.
 
Final Update: Never was able to figure out why I was having so much trouble getting the valve train to function properly. Took it all apart yesterday and inspected every part and how it was installed. Everything looked fine and was installed properly.

Reassembled it with new stock cam that I had on the shelf for five or six years. Put in new lifters - same brand as before - Engine Tech. Engine ran smooth and quiet from first fire. Ran it 2000 or so rpm - no tach, just by ear - for 20 minutes. Buttoned it up and went to dinner.

Took the wife to lunch and ran errands this afternoon - car never ran this good - she was impressed...I call that a win.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions - I really appreciate it.
 
Back
Top