Order of execution on a build

Cday07":2h66mkpo said:
I glanced right past the 2V conversion article in the tech archives.

It looks like I’ll have them mill it for the Autolite 2 bbl bracket and install a spacer to help the carb clear the VC. The only change from now is that it seems like I’ll be using 3 gasket instead of 2 (between bracket/head,bracket/spacer, and spacer/carb).

Paired with an HEI, this should make it a lot more exciting to drive.
Click to expand...
Yeah you won't regret it. Like i said, that carb alone made all the difference. I do have an HEI but mine is not curved. That will be when i swap my head on. You're better off getting an HEI from Bill here. He custom curves it for you per car specs so its just what you need.
 
See viewtopic.php?f=22&t=72771&p=564591#p564591



Cday07":2fm74uny said:
Thanks Chad. I should have made some other parameters known as a point of information. My hp goal is in the mid 200s ballpark. But I want to pour on the coals with the torque and get in the realm of 360-425 ft lbs.
Click to expand...
See
pmuller9":2fm74uny said:
.....I've seen where a turbo is used to feed a supercharger for gasoline engines.
You get boost over a very wide rpm range and the turbo can use a higher turbine housing A/R than normal which increases overall efficiency.
Click to expand...
 
StarDiero75":1zpwq0u4 said:
Cday07":1zpwq0u4 said:
I glanced right past the 2V conversion article in the tech archives.

It looks like I’ll have them mill it for the Autolite 2 bbl bracket and install a spacer to help the carb clear the VC. The only change from now is that it seems like I’ll be using 3 gasket instead of 2 (between bracket/head,bracket/spacer, and spacer/carb).

Paired with an HEI, this should make it a lot more exciting to drive.
Click to expand...
Yeah you won't regret it. Like i said, that carb alone made all the difference. I do have an HEI but mine is not curved. That will be when i swap my head on. You're better off getting an HEI from Bill here. He custom curves it for you per car specs so its just what you need.
Click to expand...
I have no HEI's left. I no longer sell them.
I have a new DUI with a higher voltage coil & all the oil problems have been corrected by me. I will custom curve it for your application. The vacuum advance is adjustable for total. See this link.
https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=79829
 
StarDiero75":3otkl4a3 said:
Cday07":3otkl4a3 said:
I glanced right past the 2V conversion article in the tech archives.

It looks like I’ll have them mill it for the Autolite 2 bbl bracket and install a spacer to help the carb clear the VC. The only change from now is that it seems like I’ll be using 3 gasket instead of 2 (between bracket/head,bracket/spacer, and spacer/carb).

Paired with an HEI, this should make it a lot more exciting to drive.
Click to expand...
Yeah you won't regret it. Like i said, that carb alone made all the difference. I do have an HEI but mine is not curved. That will be when i swap my head on. You're better off getting an HEI from Bill here. He custom curves it for you per car specs so its just what you need.
Click to expand...

I actually picked one up from Bill last year and have loved every second of it!

On a relevant note here, I’m starting to go away from forced induction plans in favor of keeping things naturally aspirated (at least for the head I’m currently having work done on to install). I know the 200 head had ~52CC chambers; I currently have about 0.30 in of piston to deck clearance, Felpro head gasket (compressed thickness is 0.50”), and -7CC dished pistons. Based on my math from the Falcon Six Handbook, that yields a 8.6:1 CR stock. If I mill the 250 head down to 44 CCs (from the 62 it’s quoted at, but my machine shop will be verifying numbers first), working the same formula, that would yield a 9.49 CR. How do these motors handle increased compression ratios? And does this seem like a wise idea since I’m staying naturally aspirated or should I have a different NA compression ratio in mind? I don’t want think I want to push 10:1 just yet (40 CC chambers) and would like to be able to stay on pump gas. The new carb for this head is a 68 Autolite 2100 with 1.08 venturis.
 
Cday07":2j83g0f5 said:
StarDiero75":2j83g0f5 said:
Cday07":2j83g0f5 said:
I glanced right past the 2V conversion article in the tech archives.

It looks like I’ll have them mill it for the Autolite 2 bbl bracket and install a spacer to help the carb clear the VC. The only change from now is that it seems like I’ll be using 3 gasket instead of 2 (between bracket/head,bracket/spacer, and spacer/carb).

Paired with an HEI, this should make it a lot more exciting to drive.
Click to expand...
Yeah you won't regret it. Like i said, that carb alone made all the difference. I do have an HEI but mine is not curved. That will be when i swap my head on. You're better off getting an HEI from Bill here. He custom curves it for you per car specs so its just what you need.
Click to expand...

I actually picked one up from Bill last year and have loved every second of it!

On a relevant note here, I’m starting to go away from forced induction plans in favor of keeping things naturally aspirated (at least for the head I’m currently having work done on to install). I know the 200 head had ~52CC chambers; I currently have about 0.30 in of piston to deck clearance, Felpro head gasket (compressed thickness is 0.50”), and -7CC dished pistons. Based on my math from the Falcon Six Handbook, that yields a 8.6:1 CR stock. If I mill the 250 head down to 44 CCs (from the 62 it’s quoted at, but my machine shop will be verifying numbers first), working the same formula, that would yield a 9.49 CR. How do these motors handle increased compression ratios? And does this seem like a wise idea since I’m staying naturally aspirated or should I have a different NA compression ratio in mind? I don’t want think I want to push 10:1 just yet (40 CC chambers) and would like to be able to stay on pump gas. The new carb for this head is a 68 Autolite 2100 with 1.08 venturis.
Click to expand...

The 200 six handles compression great! Also besides the FelPro head gasket the Victor head gasket is about .045, a thinner custom head gasket can also be had though they cost more. For street driven car with an iron head and using pump gas the practical limit is 9.5 to 1. For a Street / Race combo a 9.7 to 9.8 also could be possible with very carful assembly of the short block and engine tuning that's always right on the money. The best way is to not try and get all of your compression boost by only cutting the head, a much better combo is to zero deck the block then cut the head to finalize the CC's. The better short block combos will have a quench distance using a combo of head gasket and pistion deck height thats around .035 to .050. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
You bring up a valid point that I would overlook in haste. Perhaps the wiser approach then is to mill the head to 48 CCs, go with a Victor HG when I reinstall it, and that would yield approximately a 9.11:1 CR. The other .4 can be had down the line when the motor gets pulled for the bottom end (probably a couple years off, but never to early to start planning it out) to get it to 9.5. Thank you for the input.
 
You are welcome. Yes that plan could work quite well too with a 9.11 CR should give a quite noticeable improvement in power along with all the other benefits of the later 250 head. :unsure: It's a bit unusual that deck height is .030 down the hole, stock from the factory they are around .019 maybe it has been rebuilt once before. One other way of many that you can get to a zero deck when you rebuild the short block in a couple years is to offset grind the crankshaft. From .010 to .015 then a light cut true the deck, plus this gives you a little extra stroke for a few more cubes. Or there is also a set of custom Pistons too, anyway over time you can come up with the best plan for your rebuild. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
bubba22349":vb0jy2vh said:
You are welcome. Yes that plan could work quite well too with a 9.11 CR should give a quite noticeable improvement in power along with all the other benefits of the later 250 head. :unsure: It's a bit unusual that deck height is .030 down the hole, stock from the factory they are around .019 maybe it has been rebuilt once before. One other way of many that you can get to a zero deck when you rebuild the short block in a couple years is to offset grind the crankshaft. From .010 to .015 then a light cut true the deck, plus this gives you a little extra stroke for a few more cubes. Or there is also a set of custom Pistons too, anyway over time you can come up with the best plan for your rebuild. Good luck (y) :nod:
Click to expand...

I may be mistaken on the deck height (I’m recalling from the last time I ever looked at it, but I likely only got the cylinder close to TDC when I did my own measurement). I can get an accurate measurement of it this weekend. While reading through the handbook, I came across an interesting statement. I’ll quote something from page 79 on manifold selection: “Avoid the later D7 to E3 manifolds. They are strong enough, but have extra bungs, taps, and bulges to accommodate EPA requirements that do not help flow.” Yet everything I’ve read elsewhere indicates to go with a 78 or later 250 head. Which is the correct assessment? Unless the direct quote is referencing later 200 CI heads and not 250s.
 
What they are referring to there are the smog heads. Not all the later heads are smog heads.
 
I don't have my hand book handy so can't read that part. :unsure: But you said it's for manifold selection, so it's likely talking about the exhaust manifold rather the heads log manifold. In any case the later heads are better for performance with bigger intake valves, larger log volume, larger carb opening, valve seats designed for unleaded fuel we have since the mid 1970's, so in all most all accounts you would need to spend a lot of money on an early head to match that. If the late head you find has the air injection ports they can be plugged with something like Allen head type set screws and the port bump easily ground out of the exhaust port with a little time. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
The issue the Schedahl brothers were trying to spare us all was having to take a 200 page refresher course on the 100 Vehicle Emissions and Control Instructions depicted in the 1978 to 1983 Service Manuals.

The later engines had two catalysts, varying kinds of invasive primary and secondary AIR systems, A/C throttle kickers, TAB and TAD Thermactor systems, and the only solution to wading through all that was adding 200 pages of this....


hGDklu6BtdUzCLwRHknguGHBnRyuG-KY9UlJIxprM7ERLGHpNubfdi_bgpu9MjBdIHjPQYq3egSd3zme2khUf3wD8iwS23kuhzf6z2AAoVQ-1cWIFfNj6oO5KKocs7R2=w340-h433-nc



And Aint Nobody Got Time For Dat...
 
xctasy":1wevr1ud said:
The issue the Schedahl brothers were trying to spare us all was having to take a 200 page refresher course on the 100 Vehicle Emissions and Control Instructions depicted in the 1978 to 1983 Service Manuals.

The later engines had two catalysts, varying kinds of invasive primary and secondary AIR systems, A/C throttle kickers, TAB and TAD Thermactor systems, and the only solution to wading through all that was adding 200 pages of this....


hGDklu6BtdUzCLwRHknguGHBnRyuG-KY9UlJIxprM7ERLGHpNubfdi_bgpu9MjBdIHjPQYq3egSd3zme2khUf3wD8iwS23kuhzf6z2AAoVQ-1cWIFfNj6oO5KKocs7R2=w340-h433-nc



And Aint Nobody Got Time For Dat...
Click to expand...

Yikes...
 
Over the course of last night and this morning, I’ve been searching for images on throttle linkage setup, but have come up empty handed repeatedly. Double check the tech archives and there’s plenty to give me an idea for Weber/Holley, but not Autolite. Anyone have a couple pictures to share on how your throttle linkage (or cable) is set up for the 2100)? If necessary, I’m going to order a throttle cable kit before the weekend hits so it can be here by the start of next week.
 
no 'location' in ur sig or top right corner. Many of us hit the 'junk yards" & peruse the 60s, 70s, early 80s fords.
Have U looked at our other threads?
Used the search function?
Look in #7 in this thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79735

I'd rather spend time than money tho...
 
Cday07":2gb8dpds said:
Over the course of last night and this morning, I’ve been searching for images on throttle linkage setup, but have come up empty handed repeatedly. Double check the tech archives and there’s plenty to give me an idea for Weber/Holley, but not Autolite. Anyone have a couple pictures to share on how your throttle linkage (or cable) is set up for the 2100)? If necessary, I’m going to order a throttle cable kit before the weekend hits so it can be here by the start of next week.
Click to expand...
I did a throttle cable on mine. I used a Lokar cable from summit. I made an L out of aluminum with a piece that goes out to the side and a hole drilled in that for the cable. i should have used steel b/c the aluminum bends a bit when i hit the gas.

I'll take a pic of what i have now for my weber, but its essentially the same thing but the piece the comes out to the side is flipped on the weber.
 
If you have a 0.030" clearance, then someone put in new pistons. The original stock ones had a compression height of 1.511" and resulted in a 0.019" deck height. The replacement pistons are 1.500" compression height. So with the replacement pistons in there and no deck milling, you would land at 0.028" in the hole. There is a Keith Black piston for the Aussie 200 that has a 1.530" compression height.

Have you measured the bore? If there are replacement pistons in there, it's possible it has been bored. That will change your compression numbers slightly.

When I did my head swap, I measured my deck height at 0.020" and bore of 3.68, so this block has never been touched. I went with a C9 head that had 61cc chambers after I cleaned them up. I had it milled 0.070" (I think) to get down to 48cc. I also worked the exhaust ports and put in the port divider. I also did oversized valves (1.75"/1.50"). With my NOS gasket @ 0.035" I have 9.46:1 SCR. My dynamic compression ratio is at 7.99:1 with the Clay Smith 264/274 cam.

I ran a Autolite 2100 1.14 and loved it. The problem was I overtightened the bolts and broke off a foot on the carb base. The carb ran great though! Now I'm running a 500 cfm Holley I got from Bill.

With all this, the car runs like an entirely new machine. Paired with the Arvinode exhaust from VintageInlines, it sounds very mean!
 
I’ll be checking measurements over this weekend while the shop gets to CCing the cylinder head just to make sure everything is correct in calculations. I completely forgot about the port divider. The P.O welded one in on the 200 head and I need to get a new one installed on the 250.
 
Time for a small status update. I made the decision to do a full block tear down with the cylinder head off the car due to blow by that has gotten progressively worse over the past 5 years (this was on Friday). My machinist gave me a ring today to inform me that my block is already bored 60 over and can’t be saved. Sourcing a new block is proving to be a little tricky here in Southern California (blows my mind).

He’s basically telling me to throw in the towel and run a 289/302, but I’m trying to avoid that route almost all costs (because the V8 required support systems: cooling, suspension, brakes, etc would cost another couple thousand and I’ve already upgraded these parts for the 6). I’ve been exhausting other options; heard/read about sleeving all cylinders (not even sure if this is a feasible resolution), but if someone has had any experience on this I’m open ears. I’ve searched the sale pages and not really interested in buying essentially a crate 200 for $2200. I’m open ears for alternate solutions or if anyone knows of a 200 block (five freeze plugs) lingering for sale (I can’t imagine block plus shipping would top $600).

Thanks, Chris
 
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