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why hex log?

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bmbm40
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why hex log?

Post #1 by bmbm40 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:56 pm

Here's something I haven't thought about yet. Wonder why Ford went from the 1345cc flat log to the 1420cc hex log. It's only 75cc. Is the hex shape better? Ford probably would not make the investment for no ROI.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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xctasy
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Re: why hex log?

Post #2 by xctasy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:05 pm

bmbm40 wrote:Here's something I haven't thought about yet. Wonder why Ford went from the 1345cc flat log to the 1420cc hex log. It's only 75cc. Is the hex shape better? Ford probably would not make the investment for no ROI.


numbers are 43.4% intake verses swept volume with 200 (199.5 cubic inches is 3269.25 ccs) verses 41.1%. Flowed better too.

Easier to cast with less metal, and an increase in intake runner capacity. Seams like people in Ford like closer to 50% as being the ideal intake runner voume to capacity.

There were plans to do a 2-bbl head at the same time.

Flat tops were not an optimised design, and wasted a little more iron, so it cost more. Ford was very cost focused on making sure the 3.3 and 4.1 heads got spat out quick, lean and mean.

Like the downgrade to cast iron rods in 250's from 1978, and the down grade to 187 thou nominal casting thickness in all 200/250 engines (except the 170) in 1969, it was all about cost verses performance. They never gave problems in service, so it was a good move for Ford.

For us, less a good move, but the later heads and rods and blocks can still take some punishment.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: why hex log?

Post #3 by CZLN6 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:15 pm

Howdy:

A good question and good information. Thanks for asking bmbm40 and thanks for the answer X.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

bmbm40
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Re: why hex log?

Post #4 by bmbm40 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:49 pm

Thanks X. That all makes sense. So if you wanted to stay with a single carb head with all the 3 angle, backcutting and porting the hex log would have a slight advantage over the flat top log.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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xctasy
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Re: why hex log?

Post #5 by xctasy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:05 pm

Yes, a little.

The differences were in the port sizes, they are a little larger.


The D8 heads can flow a lot of air, all the later E heads are just a little better still.


Crosley's modified D8 head is one of the best performing direct 2-bbl mount engines.


The later E heads

For 1980 to 1983, man vac (Item 17 on my VECI list) is on a hex port, capped off with a hex grub screw in 1bad6t's photos

Image

Image

ponikorjaamo's EGR was blanked off

Image

So they
1. swapped the postion of the vacuum tee, and

2. got the integrated EGR port which was another reason why the volume increased.

3. The casting was optimised to suit the emissions targets, and the first changes were the two mods above.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: why hex log?

Post #6 by xctasy » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:31 pm

The progression was linked to the so called 2-BBL head that Darrell (super4ord) found on ebay.

All the 1980 onwards engines were gonna have the 200 6 cyl equiped with the catalytic exhaust manifold, and the CA and Hi Alt areas the secondary AIR lines to the exhaust manifold, with up and downstream air.

Ford got busy doing the emissions testing, and one head excaped the scrap yard. Its got all the engineering testing code numbers, themocouples and calibration numbers on it. There is a serously large amount of money that Ford pumped into this updated log head project.


Image

This pre 1980 head here.

MTT
XE 201090


Its missing a lot of the three E head inclusions (the foot ball primary light off cat, the vac pickup relocation, and its shape is even fatter and bigger), but they were playing around with the casting lots on this XE head. It has integrated EGR and it lookes like its the begining of the E0/E1 heads.


XE castings are not for production, and Ford issues a burn notice on them...they aren't to be used on public cars because they are development parts.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Image

Image

Image

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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chad
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pig log

Post #7 by chad » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:15 am

OMG! That poor fattie's sick!
:twisted:
(more ways'n 1)

Whaddaya think the volume on that is?
2K?

But lookit - the runners R no larger or longer than my "M"...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: pig log

Post #8 by xctasy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:41 am

chad wrote:OMG! That poor fattie's sick!
:twisted:
(more ways'n 1)

Whaddaya think the volume on that is?
2K?

But lookit - the runners R no larger or longer than my "M"...



I'm sure its all external cladding and that inside its a 1420 cc upgrade based on the E1 I have before me.

Correct, chad, the runners aint no bigger on the outside compared to my Aussie ARC9-6049 head either...Ford we experiementing not with the stubs, but the whole log itself.

Notice a little Leprechaun hat along the front of the log between intake 1 and 3....on runner 2


Image

I'm thinking that was the first step to an alternative vacuum takeoff port.

Yup, the E heads were dawg turds out of an "Engineering Dawg" with a hexangonal nut up its butt, that's for sure....
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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chad
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Re: why hex log?

Post #9 by chad » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:21 pm

Darrell used the football exh-manny in conjunction w/"Mr. Fattie" ~
:hmmm:

Where did it all lead Dean? Hear the final (if any) results...?(carb chosen? performance?)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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xctasy
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Re: why hex log?

Post #10 by xctasy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:46 pm

super4ord let this XE 201090 one slide. He and a mate were gonna take a road trip, and pick it up, but life got in the way. :nod:


But I copied the pictures....
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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chad
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Re: why hex log?

Post #11 by chad » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:00 pm

K,
packratin pic is easier than parts
thanks for all U do!
:mrgreen:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: why hex log?

Post #12 by mustang6 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:54 pm

I saved the name of the guy that offered that head for sale on ebay and years later asked him if he still had it because he didn't sell it in the ebay auction I saw. He said he eventually sold it but has no records as to who it went to.... so it's out the somewhere...
Last edited by mustang6 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scott

68 Mustang 200 ci, Aussie 250-2V head, Dual Headers, Comp Cams 252H, DSII w/MSD 6AL, T-5, V8 suspension.

65 Ranchero 200 ci, late 170 head, Autolite 1101, 3.03 3 speed, Maverick 8" 4 lug rear with 3.55 gears.

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xctasy
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Re: why hex log?

Post #13 by xctasy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:08 am

mustang6 wrote:I saved the name of the guy that offered that head for sale on ebay and years later asked him if he still had it because he didn't sell it in the ebay auction I saw. I said he eventually sold it but has no records as to who it went to.... so it's out the somewhere...


Nice, thanks for the ' um' heads up. You too guys listed it, and we had a talk about the item for a little while, IIRC. It may not impress FoMoCo, but it inspired me.

That good sluth work, Scott. If anything comes to light the listing pictures will stay here as long as I pay my PhotoBucket account!
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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