New tri Weber engine build.

jaan-e

Well-known member
Hi to you all!

My name is Janne and I'm from Sweden, I'we been reading here for a long time but never wrighting anything, until now.
I have a - 61Falcon futura, with a - 65 200 block and a - 70 250 head, carb and Exhaust. It also got a Volvo 121 gearbox with the long gear shifter. Now, my engine need a rebuild and I stan with two choises, rebuild an other - 78 250 i have, with some suitable big bell 5speed gearbox ( I'm avare of the fitment issiue ) or rebuild the curent 200. Plans are : cut of log on - 78 head and triple Weber IDF carbs. Got to love the look and sound of webers. I do want a high reving screamer, so i Wonder were the safe rev limit on stock cranks for The 200 vs 250 are. Im thinking on the longera pinto rods, if they are needed. Will do a real rebuild, with bore and deck suitable pistons. Rear end Will be a 3,55 or 3:73 not sure yet, tyres ar for now 205/60-15. Any toughts would be Nice.
 
Glad U finally posted !
allows me the chance to say
W E L C O M E !

"...a high reving screamer,..."
boy, that allows alot of choices. I assume U read "the Handbook" and perused the above "tech archive". They do not present the 6 Keihin idea (some on the continent use - ck GB for intakes). I believe of the 2 choices U mention the 200/3.3 is move of a revie lill guy (HP in hi revs) while the 250/4.1 is about 'no substitute for more cubes" (a tq monster). Many use the 300/4.9 to race (as well).

https://www.keihin-na.com/aftermarket/products/

When U say "3 Webers"...how & which models?

What exactly will the vehicle B used for (strip? curvy back rds? daily city traffic? a show car? etc)?
 
nice thoughts:

the log manifold Tri-Power 200/250 setup is tried and true performer and provides many hours of enjoyment tuning each carb and then getting the trio to work together . the Weber selection may offer more consistent results than typical older Holley or Carter carbs ..

Already was mentioned the advantage the 250 has using widely available SBF - FW, starter, BH's and Clutches and most modern OD transmissions. Unless your '65 200 is 'dual drilled' for the later 'toploader' tranny BHs, the BH, Clutch have more limited options.

3.55 or 3.73 rears with a typical modern 5 speed/Overdrive' ratio and a well tuned/built 200/250 will wake up the small block six and provide for different driving experience.

.. .a high reving screamer
Spinning a 200 or 250 RPM out past @ 5K consistently needs considerable work to make it reliable , only depends on your resources .

have fun




(250/ 3 Holleys / T5 / 3.80rear - tach redline = 5500 RPM (sometimes' 8) ) )
.
 
Thank you for The welcoming.
Intended use is backroads and show off. To the smal flywheel on the 200 there is the alfa romeo clutch mod to get a decent presureplate and there are overdrive unites for The Volvo m40 gearbox. For The 250 i miss a flywheel and a gearbox, thinking on the shaby s10 pickup box, would that fit the Bell of the 250? Weber don't scare me, have been working on multi carbed boat engines for over 20 years, it Will be fun. One thing is Flow numbers on a cut big log head, does Anyone know, wil be buying them Fajs 44 Idf Weber knockoffs. 1/3 off Weber price. Have checked with a local Weber suplier, they sel them to, have them in stock here in Sweden, with spares and jets. They have been in buisnes for over 40 years. Misab.se check it out. Ignition Will be the recurved dsII, maybe a msd, if i find one for The right money. 6-2 headers for dual out Will be on there to.
 
more fami;iar w/usa mods here. May B the Continental crowd can help U.
X (a member here) is pretty familiar w/the webers (spain, italy, etc). He will B along shortly I assume. If not he is willing take a PM, has
good knowledge base.

My thought is - what webers will fit the log in tandem (the room)? Will U use the typical (here) Offenhauser (speaking of marine apps) trip intake?
I'd use the 6 Kiehins or the offie w/pretty holley 'glass bowls' (the 1904 or is it 1940) model...

"shaby s10 pickup box, would that fit the Bell of the 250? ..."
chevy (Chevrolet) pick up is not known by this author. An S10 is right sized tho... The 250 hasa ford "small block" (a misnomer as fords have families not big/sm block - but 289, 300, 302, 351, 400M manual transmissions fit this i6) bell. We use the WC (world class) T5 on them (SBF bell housings).

Chinese carbs: we had very poor luck w/early chinese carbs. We took the same approach w/them they did w/our recyclable plastics. Refusnicks. Same result (may B time will tell here) they improved. Can't speak to any specific company or model carb. Some R OK tho. IDF? - IDK (LOL)

The recurve we think as final step, cherry on top, sorta thing but many use the 1977+ DSII ignition (dizzy & blue strain relief box, coil) some use the MSD (like the DSU dizzy over priced for the return & the dizzy actually has problems) even the dragsters.

Speed Daddy 6 to 2 headers (pipes, tubes, whatever vernacular) and VI seem a good value (lower price, upper quality):
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... let-header
for 'shorties' (HP). The long tubes (tq) R hard to find for these motors. Hooker or an Oz (Down Under) company...

We have alot of after mrkt co.s for the back rd's upgrades: K members, lowering equp, frame stiffeners, disc and R&P steering conversions. For the falcon an early 'stang model 'kit' is appropriate altho the fox-bodied equipment is being modded for application as well. Ck our falcon forums (all over the net) as I see them on there (I am a mini truck guy - '66/'77 bronco so don't follow that closely. Just dream of a canyon carving SCCA type '60/3 Ranchero modded up w/this stuff & the VI alu head, 6 Keihins or multi port FI:
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... ad-package

Let us know any other Q or comments~
(y)
 
If it helps - I did just about everything I could to the bottom end of my 250 to make it more durable:

ARP main studs
Early, forged 300 rods
ARP rod bolts
RaceTek forged pistons, very short for .005 deck height
Rotating assembly balanced

Only other thing I know of would be to have a custom billet crank made, very $$$$.

When all was said and done, my machinist recommended a max RPM of 6,500. If you want to rev higher than that, a 200 may be a better choice.
 
Welcome to the Ford Six forums! Using the small bell 1965 200 block has one disadvantage with its smaller 8.5 clutch and pressure plate, but an adapter plate allows a Ford T5 to bolt right up to the stock bell housing. There are several of our site members that have made block adapter plates to then use the bigger Ford SBF V8 6 bolt bell housings that then lets you also use the bigger V8 size flywheel and clutches.

Because the 250 block all ready has the V8 size 6 bolt patteren it gives you the ability to use a much larger flywheel and clutch assembly.the T5 can also bolt to all the severial bells with aproxamately 3 adapter plates. Also the later stock 5.0 T5 bell housings that were used in the Fox chassis cars will bolt right up to the 250 without the need of using an adapter plate, you would then need a 157 tooth zero balance flywheel this could use a 10 inch V8 clutch and pressure plate. As far as the S10 Trans most if not all of them are a Non World Class T5. They also use a Chevy Spline pattern clutch disk and their trans case bolt pattern is different too. The Chevy pattern trans would need a custom adapter from a Chevy to Ford bell housing. What can also be done is to use the rear tail housing on the Ford T5 for its shifter location also note that the rear trans yoke on an S10 is the Chevy spline so one more part to adapt. If your 1961 Futura has front bucket seat option (or for the Comet S22 or the early Mustang’s) you can also use a stock Ford 3 or 4 speed floor shifter handle on a T 5 swap or if you plan to use bucket seats then you wouldn't realy need the S10 shifter location and there are also a few custom shifters made for the T5.

On flow numbers I don't know that anyone has flowed a cut off large log head but in the below link you can see flow numbers for the different heads. A cut off large log should flow more but maybe not all that much compared to a stock log head due to its port shape. You will also see flow numbers for the Austrian Iron 2V head which has a removeable intake so the flow numbers would be closer to of a cut off log. The draw back I see is the the larger log after the log is cut off has irregular port floor shapes and from my porting experiences I don't think it's going to flow as well as the Australian 2V intake side unless the floor was filled in and raised which could work well. You can find in a search of this site severial examples of the various years of small log and large logs with their logs cut off to see what those ports look like. I was planing on doing a cut off log but planed on using one of the early heads with it more consistent round / oval shaped ports to more match the Austrailan 2V head. I have always liked the Weber IDF's and the Delorto versions too and was setting up my 300 Drag Race engine to use the 45's or bigger. Best of luck on your build. (y) :nod:

Ford Six Log Head Flow Numbers
ci/FlowTest.html
 
So, i've been thinking. The 200 is in the car, with a fully working drive line. I think the shortest downtime for a engine rebuild would bee to do that engine. For The 250 to fit, it would need: engine mounts, new one growe dampener, flywheel, starter, gearbox, relocated radiator, trans mount, driveshaft, banged in firewall ( whitch is quite newley painted White, like the car.) and other smal odds and ends. There Will be some what les room for The carbs to, with the 250. I might just as well pice together a Nice kit for the 200, and dismantle the 250 head to see what Could be done. I do also have one smal log head, maybe a-65 200 or a - 61 170. Have to check on that, still think the big logg head May bee the best to cut upp. What do you guys think?
 
The 200 six can be made to run 7500 rpm with the right parts.

The aftermarket Toyota 1JZ-GTE "H" beam connecting rods have been installed on the 200 crank with crankshaft rod journal modifications.
viewtopic.php?p=609479#p609479
Post #29
viewtopic.php?p=614325#p614325

Use a custom piston from Autotec/Racetec.

The 1978 head should have the larger 1.75"/1.38" valves.
You will need to machine and eliminate the stock spring locators from the valve spring seat area so you can use double valve springs.
https://cometcentral.com/photos/images/ ... 9cc181.jpg

In order to rev the 200 very high you will need a solid lifter cam with valve springs that have high seat pressure and heavy spring rates.
The problem is there isn't much distance under the valve spring retainer which limits the selection of springs with the right specs.
That's why the need for double springs.
https://cometcentral.com/photos/images/ ... 7a8525.jpg
 
The 200 six can be made to run 7500 rpm with the right parts.

Ford provided early 1959 144 engines for competition sports car racing . Power Boat racing classes also encouraged a lot of experimenting with the Falcon Six with the inherent high RPM capabilities of the 4 Main bearing crankshaft . Adapting SU's and Webers and leaning it over slant-six for lower CG were other options.

Philson Falcon:

https://stevemckelvie.wordpress.com/201 ... on-falcon/

have fun
 
God tips from evryone! I fell like I should setle with a max rpm of 6000-6500. That would be a safe engine with not to much exotic parts, yes? Thank you pmuler9 for The tip on spring seats. I'we been reading on the tip from extacy on weber dcoe i an other tread, and come to the conclusion that it shold be 44IDF carbs, with 36mm venturis. On some shorts 30°something bends velded to the intake snouts that remain when the log is milled of perpendicular to the intakeports, have to get the head on the bench to have a look. Now, how does that sound for a plan?
 
So, now the log is gone. When i look at the intakes, they mesure: 35x35 mm. The pipe bends mesure: 43mm id. Should mate ok. With the downdraft carbs, i feel that the flow should be directed towards the short turn.
 
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