What is the pressure on the lifter face?
All Big Six MPG thread
- Thread starter InlineDave87
- Start date
Relates to all big sixes
These studies don’t have anything to do with MPG and probably need to be in a different place. My understanding is cam lobes, lifters and valve stem ends see lots of pressure due to small contact areas. I guess this is why it’s so important to run a grade of oil that has the highest sheer strength. Especially when running higher spring pressures with high ratio rockers.
Here are some parts of the study that was interesting I just went through some that could be helpful. They are lengthy.
In these studies it mentions that solid lifters are much harder on a valve train than hydraulics. And it makes sense.
The “MASTER WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST” itself, begins here:
NOTE: THIS MASTER WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST includes “ALL” motor oils tested since this Blog was started back in 2013. Since the latest current and available motor oils are ranked throughout this VERY LONG RANKING LIST, it can be time consuming and difficult to find them.
But, you can now conveniently, easily, and quickly find those latest current and available motor oils in Tech Article 76, titled “MINI WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST of the latest current and available motor oils that were recently Tested, including six 5W30 API SP, GM dexos 1, Gen 3 Motor Oils”.
1. 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” (abbreviated QSFS), dexos 1 Gen “2”, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP = 152,674 psi
NOTE: THIS MOTOR OIL HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED, AND WAS REPLACED BY A NEWER VERSION WITH GM dexos 1, Gen “3” certification. SEE BEOW FOR THE NEW OIL’S RANKING POSITION.
And that psi value sets a WHOPPING NEW ALL-TIME RECORD for motor oils that I have put through my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil. It was tested in Spring 2021.
This new 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” motor oil replaces the previous 5W30 Quaker State “Ultimate Durability” (abbreviated QSUD) synthetic.
zinc = 905
phos = 764
moly = 176
The psi value of this new oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the SPECTACULAR Wear Protection Category. However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, most hotter and thinner oils typically experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. But, even at that elevated temperature, this oil produced an extremely impressive 148,133 psi, which was only a small 3% drop in capability. And that value put this much hotter and thinner oil in the AMAZING Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 290*F.
This new oil was purchased at Walmart. And its truly amazing performance is further proof that Walmart is selling legitimate motor oil, even though their prices are extremely low compared to typical Auto Parts Stores.
Many of us who have been devoted users of the previous Quaker State “Ultimate Durability” motor oil, were concerned that Quaker State’s Corporate bean counters might get their hands on this new Quaker State “Full Synthetic” oil, and cut costs that would ruin the oil. Fortunately, as it turned out, that did not happen. And in fact, now this latest new 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” motor oil, is BY FAR, the BEST PERFORMING motor oil that I have ever tested. This is absolute proof that Quaker State REALLY knows how to formulate motor oil.
This new “Full Synthetic” motor oil has set the bar so high, that it is the oil I will be using in my own vehicles from stock to High Performance, from now on. And it is the motor oil that I will recommend to my Blog readers for most water cooled, gasoline powered engines, that can use 5W30. This is especially THE “go to” motor oil for traditional flat tappet engines to provide the utmost in protection against wiped cam lobes.
Never say never, but it is hard to imagine another motor oil ever producing numbers this amazing.
Here is a back to back comparison of the new 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” and the old 5W30 Quaker State “Ultimate Durability”.
NOTE: The Higher the psi value, the Better the wear protection capability. And the Higher the onset of thermal breakdown value, the Higher the oil temperature can reach before the oil begins to deteriorate due to heat.
QSFS at 230*F = 152,674 psi
QSFS at 275*F = 148,133 psi
QSFS onset of thermal breakdown = 290*F
*****
QSUD at 230*F = 133,125 psi
QSUD at 275*F = 115,764 psi
QSUD onset of thermal breakdown = 275*F
The only possible concern about this amazing new 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic motor oil, was that it might be “too good” for use in wet clutch motorcycles. But, motorcycle Owner feedback in July 2021, proved that this amazing new motor oil works just fine in wet clutch motorcycles, meaning there was no clutch slipping at all. Of course that applies to wet clutch motorcycles with clutches that are in good condition.
Here are some parts of the study that was interesting I just went through some that could be helpful. They are lengthy.
In these studies it mentions that solid lifters are much harder on a valve train than hydraulics. And it makes sense.
The “MASTER WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST” itself, begins here:
NOTE: THIS MASTER WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST includes “ALL” motor oils tested since this Blog was started back in 2013. Since the latest current and available motor oils are ranked throughout this VERY LONG RANKING LIST, it can be time consuming and difficult to find them.
But, you can now conveniently, easily, and quickly find those latest current and available motor oils in Tech Article 76, titled “MINI WEAR PROTECTION RANKING LIST of the latest current and available motor oils that were recently Tested, including six 5W30 API SP, GM dexos 1, Gen 3 Motor Oils”.
1. 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” (abbreviated QSFS), dexos 1 Gen “2”, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP = 152,674 psi
NOTE: THIS MOTOR OIL HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED, AND WAS REPLACED BY A NEWER VERSION WITH GM dexos 1, Gen “3” certification. SEE BEOW FOR THE NEW OIL’S RANKING POSITION.
And that psi value sets a WHOPPING NEW ALL-TIME RECORD for motor oils that I have put through my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil. It was tested in Spring 2021.
This new 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” motor oil replaces the previous 5W30 Quaker State “Ultimate Durability” (abbreviated QSUD) synthetic.
zinc = 905
phos = 764
moly = 176
The psi value of this new oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the SPECTACULAR Wear Protection Category. However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, most hotter and thinner oils typically experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. But, even at that elevated temperature, this oil produced an extremely impressive 148,133 psi, which was only a small 3% drop in capability. And that value put this much hotter and thinner oil in the AMAZING Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 290*F.
This new oil was purchased at Walmart. And its truly amazing performance is further proof that Walmart is selling legitimate motor oil, even though their prices are extremely low compared to typical Auto Parts Stores.
Many of us who have been devoted users of the previous Quaker State “Ultimate Durability” motor oil, were concerned that Quaker State’s Corporate bean counters might get their hands on this new Quaker State “Full Synthetic” oil, and cut costs that would ruin the oil. Fortunately, as it turned out, that did not happen. And in fact, now this latest new 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” motor oil, is BY FAR, the BEST PERFORMING motor oil that I have ever tested. This is absolute proof that Quaker State REALLY knows how to formulate motor oil.
This new “Full Synthetic” motor oil has set the bar so high, that it is the oil I will be using in my own vehicles from stock to High Performance, from now on. And it is the motor oil that I will recommend to my Blog readers for most water cooled, gasoline powered engines, that can use 5W30. This is especially THE “go to” motor oil for traditional flat tappet engines to provide the utmost in protection against wiped cam lobes.
Never say never, but it is hard to imagine another motor oil ever producing numbers this amazing.
Here is a back to back comparison of the new 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” and the old 5W30 Quaker State “Ultimate Durability”.
NOTE: The Higher the psi value, the Better the wear protection capability. And the Higher the onset of thermal breakdown value, the Higher the oil temperature can reach before the oil begins to deteriorate due to heat.
QSFS at 230*F = 152,674 psi
QSFS at 275*F = 148,133 psi
QSFS onset of thermal breakdown = 290*F
*****
QSUD at 230*F = 133,125 psi
QSUD at 275*F = 115,764 psi
QSUD onset of thermal breakdown = 275*F
The only possible concern about this amazing new 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic motor oil, was that it might be “too good” for use in wet clutch motorcycles. But, motorcycle Owner feedback in July 2021, proved that this amazing new motor oil works just fine in wet clutch motorcycles, meaning there was no clutch slipping at all. Of course that applies to wet clutch motorcycles with clutches that are in good condition.
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11. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (abbreviated QSFS), GM dexos 1, Gen “3”, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP = 133,302 psi
This new Gen “3” motor oil replaces the amazing, original 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic”, GM dexos 1, Gen “2”, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP motor oil.
This new Gen “3” version of QSFS was tested in early Spring 2023.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
The psi value of this new oil, came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F. I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, this oil produced 130,581 psi, which was only a small 2% drop in capability.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 290*F.
I normally do not bother to retest motor oils for such a minor change as a dexos Gen change. But, I caught Quaker State in FALSE Advertising, and making FRAUDULENT claims about their new Quaker State Ultimate Protection Full Synthetic, 20,000 miles or 1 year motor oil, in early Spring of 2023. So, I then became concerned that they may have messed with their BEST EVER 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic motor oil. And this is the Engineering Test Data that came out of my suspicion.
It is a REAL DISAPPOINTMENT that Quaker State took the opportunity of revising the formula of 5W30 QSFS, to have the dexos 1, Gen 3 certification, to also cut costs and maximize profits, by reducing its original amazing wear protection capability by about 13%.
But, with that said, this latest version of 5W30 QSFS, is still in the TOP 4% of my Wear Protection Ranking List. And it is still suitable for ANY traditional flat tappet engine. So, when we consider Performance, Availability Convenience, and Price, it will no doubt continue to be the “motor oil of choice” for many of us. It is sort of like buying a new Mid-Engine Corvette that is one step down from the Top version. It is still an impressive Mid-Engine Corvette.
Quaker State is now owned by Shell, so that no doubt was a factor in this. Because Management of Big Companies only care about profits, NOT about the quality of their products.
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This new Gen “3” motor oil replaces the amazing, original 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic”, GM dexos 1, Gen “2”, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP motor oil.
This new Gen “3” version of QSFS was tested in early Spring 2023.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
The psi value of this new oil, came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F. I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, this oil produced 130,581 psi, which was only a small 2% drop in capability.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 290*F.
I normally do not bother to retest motor oils for such a minor change as a dexos Gen change. But, I caught Quaker State in FALSE Advertising, and making FRAUDULENT claims about their new Quaker State Ultimate Protection Full Synthetic, 20,000 miles or 1 year motor oil, in early Spring of 2023. So, I then became concerned that they may have messed with their BEST EVER 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic motor oil. And this is the Engineering Test Data that came out of my suspicion.
It is a REAL DISAPPOINTMENT that Quaker State took the opportunity of revising the formula of 5W30 QSFS, to have the dexos 1, Gen 3 certification, to also cut costs and maximize profits, by reducing its original amazing wear protection capability by about 13%.
But, with that said, this latest version of 5W30 QSFS, is still in the TOP 4% of my Wear Protection Ranking List. And it is still suitable for ANY traditional flat tappet engine. So, when we consider Performance, Availability Convenience, and Price, it will no doubt continue to be the “motor oil of choice” for many of us. It is sort of like buying a new Mid-Engine Corvette that is one step down from the Top version. It is still an impressive Mid-Engine Corvette.
Quaker State is now owned by Shell, so that no doubt was a factor in this. Because Management of Big Companies only care about profits, NOT about the quality of their products.
.
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18. 10W40 Quaker State All Mileage, API SP, conventional = 126,055 psi
This is BY FAR THE BEST performing “CONVENTIONAL” motor oil I have ever tested.
This IMPRESSIVE (for a conventional motor oil) psi value is NOT an outlier value. I test every oil several times, then average all those values to arrive at the most accurate and representative value, that I post. This oil tested rather consistently, and none of its test values was very far off from this posted average. This is simply an excellent performing conventional motor oil.
This motor oil contains “seal swell/seal conditioners”. It was tested in Spring 2023.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
The psi value of this new oil, came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F. I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, most hotter and thinner oils typically experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. At that elevated temperature, this oil produced 116,975 psi, which is about a 7% drop in capability.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 255*F. The onset of thermal breakdown of conventional motor oils is typically LOWER/WORSE than synthetic motor oils.
For traditional American flat tappet pushrod V-8 engines, I recommend the following:
Stock or lightly modified versions of those engines are best protected by motor oils that provide at least 100,000 psi or higher film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance.
Racing or High Performance street versions of those engines are best protected by motor oils that provide at least 120,000 psi or higher film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance.
So, this 10W40 Quaker State All Mileage, conventional motor oil performs so well, that it is even suitable for any traditional stock or lightly modified flat tappet engine. And it is even suitable for any traditional Racing or High Performance street flat tappet engine, as long as you can keep its oil temperature below 240*F.
However, this thicker 10W40 motor oil is ONLY recommended if you MUST use a thicker motor oil to maintain acceptable hot normal operating temperature oil pressure, or if you NEED a thicker conventional motor oil to help reduce excessive oil consumption. But, for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines, 5W30 is “THE IDEAL” overall viscosity.
NOTE: Motor oil bottles will say, Synthetic, Synthetic Blend, or they will NOT specify what the oil is at all. If it does NOT specify, it is CONVENTIONAL motor oil. This oil’s bottle did NOT specify, but on-line it was listed as conventional.
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This is BY FAR THE BEST performing “CONVENTIONAL” motor oil I have ever tested.
This IMPRESSIVE (for a conventional motor oil) psi value is NOT an outlier value. I test every oil several times, then average all those values to arrive at the most accurate and representative value, that I post. This oil tested rather consistently, and none of its test values was very far off from this posted average. This is simply an excellent performing conventional motor oil.
This motor oil contains “seal swell/seal conditioners”. It was tested in Spring 2023.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
The psi value of this new oil, came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F. I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, most hotter and thinner oils typically experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. At that elevated temperature, this oil produced 116,975 psi, which is about a 7% drop in capability.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 255*F. The onset of thermal breakdown of conventional motor oils is typically LOWER/WORSE than synthetic motor oils.
For traditional American flat tappet pushrod V-8 engines, I recommend the following:
Stock or lightly modified versions of those engines are best protected by motor oils that provide at least 100,000 psi or higher film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance.
Racing or High Performance street versions of those engines are best protected by motor oils that provide at least 120,000 psi or higher film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance.
So, this 10W40 Quaker State All Mileage, conventional motor oil performs so well, that it is even suitable for any traditional stock or lightly modified flat tappet engine. And it is even suitable for any traditional Racing or High Performance street flat tappet engine, as long as you can keep its oil temperature below 240*F.
However, this thicker 10W40 motor oil is ONLY recommended if you MUST use a thicker motor oil to maintain acceptable hot normal operating temperature oil pressure, or if you NEED a thicker conventional motor oil to help reduce excessive oil consumption. But, for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines, 5W30 is “THE IDEAL” overall viscosity.
NOTE: Motor oil bottles will say, Synthetic, Synthetic Blend, or they will NOT specify what the oil is at all. If it does NOT specify, it is CONVENTIONAL motor oil. This oil’s bottle did NOT specify, but on-line it was listed as conventional.
.
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38. 5W30 Quaker State, Ultimate Protection Full Synthetic, 20,000 mile or 1 year protection motor oil, GM dexos 1, Gen 3 = 115,905 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested in early Spring of 2023.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 280*F.
Quaker State claims on the bottle that this motor oil is now the BEST full synthetic motor oil in the Quaker State family of products, and is specially formulated to help provide optimal engine protection for modern and turbocharged engines. BUT, that is completely FALSE. Because their new reduced capability 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, STILL performed FAR BETTER in my Engineering Torture Test, than this motor oil. So, that claim was obviously written by Marketing which had no idea what they were claiming.
On this bottle, the label on the back shows a chart indicating that this oil provides better wear protection than QSFS, and that it provides better extreme temperature protection than QSFS. But, these claims are also completely FALSE, as my Engineering Tests of their new reduced capability 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, show above.
And their claim about this being a 20,000 mile motor oil is just a BLATANT, DISHONEST, SCAM to separate gullible people from their money. The fact is, a motor oil’s change interval is determined by its overall contamination level, its chemical changes due to oxidation, its dilution from fuel and condensation water, its deterioration due to thermal breakdown, its additive package depletion, its build-up of abrasives that are too small to be filtered out, and its wear protection capability degradation, no matter what the oil’s price or name may be.
No motor oil can ever go 20,000 miles without becoming completely degraded and contaminated, which ALWAYS takes place with EVERY motor oil over time and miles. Motor oil deterioration over the course of 20,000 miles, will absolutely cause totally unnecessary engine wear/damage. And adding in some extra quantity of additive package will NOT change any of that. No engine that you care about, should ever have oil in it for 20,000 miles!!! Buyer beware!!!
Now we know that Quaker State practices FALSE Advertising and FRAUDULENT Claims, just like all the other Motor Oil Companies. I have lost all respect for Quaker State.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested in early Spring of 2023.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 280*F.
Quaker State claims on the bottle that this motor oil is now the BEST full synthetic motor oil in the Quaker State family of products, and is specially formulated to help provide optimal engine protection for modern and turbocharged engines. BUT, that is completely FALSE. Because their new reduced capability 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, STILL performed FAR BETTER in my Engineering Torture Test, than this motor oil. So, that claim was obviously written by Marketing which had no idea what they were claiming.
On this bottle, the label on the back shows a chart indicating that this oil provides better wear protection than QSFS, and that it provides better extreme temperature protection than QSFS. But, these claims are also completely FALSE, as my Engineering Tests of their new reduced capability 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, show above.
And their claim about this being a 20,000 mile motor oil is just a BLATANT, DISHONEST, SCAM to separate gullible people from their money. The fact is, a motor oil’s change interval is determined by its overall contamination level, its chemical changes due to oxidation, its dilution from fuel and condensation water, its deterioration due to thermal breakdown, its additive package depletion, its build-up of abrasives that are too small to be filtered out, and its wear protection capability degradation, no matter what the oil’s price or name may be.
No motor oil can ever go 20,000 miles without becoming completely degraded and contaminated, which ALWAYS takes place with EVERY motor oil over time and miles. Motor oil deterioration over the course of 20,000 miles, will absolutely cause totally unnecessary engine wear/damage. And adding in some extra quantity of additive package will NOT change any of that. No engine that you care about, should ever have oil in it for 20,000 miles!!! Buyer beware!!!
Now we know that Quaker State practices FALSE Advertising and FRAUDULENT Claims, just like all the other Motor Oil Companies. I have lost all respect for Quaker State.
SECTION 3 – MOTOR OIL THERMAL BREAKDOWN TEST DATA
Thermal breakdown is the point at which the composition of the oil begins to change due to the temperature it’s exposed to.
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The “Official” test for this is called the NOACK Volatility Test. In this test, per the ASTM spec, the oil is heated to 250*C (482*F) for one hour. The lighter oil fractions will vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions.
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The test reports results in the percentage, by weight, lost due to “volatilization.” Before July 1, 2001, 5W-30 motor oil in the United States could lose up to 22 percent of its weight and still be regarded as “passable.” Now, with GF-4, the maximum NOACK volatility for API licensing is 15 percent. European standards limit high quality oils to a maximum of 13 percent loss.
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This of course means that any motor oil that has been heated above its onset of thermal breakdown point, has started to deteriorate. So, reasonable oil change intervals should be followed. See Tech Article, “25. Recommended Oil Change Interval”, for more details.
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To find out how an assortment of oils actually perform in the real world, I heated the following oils, and below are the approximate temperatures (rounded to the nearest 5* increment) at which each oil started to “vaporize” (which looks like smoke to the casual observer, even though the oil is NOT actually burning), which indicated the onset of thermal breakdown:
SYNTHETIC GASOLINE ENGINE OILS:
10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil, synthetic = 300* F
10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil, synthetic = 300* F
5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic = 290*F (high temp tested late 2015)
5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic = 290* F
0W30 Mobil 1, API SN, Advanced Fuel Economy, synthetic = 290* F
0W30 Castrol Edge with Syntec (black bottle), API SL, European Formula, synthetic, made in Germany and sold in the U.S. = 290* F
0W40 Castrol Edge with Syntec (black bottle), API SN, European Formula, synthetic, made in Belgium and sold in the U.S. = 290* F
10W30 Lucas Racing Only, synthetic = 290* F
5W50 Mobil 1, API SN, synthetic = 290*F
5W30 Motul 300V, Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 285* F
0W40 Mobil 1, API SN, European Formula, synthetic, made in the U.S. = 285* F
5W30 Royal Purple XPR, synthetic = 285* F
5W30 Mobil Super Synthetic, API SN = 285*F
10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil, synthetic = 280* F
5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM, synthetic = 280* F
5W20 Castrol Edge w/Titanium, API SN, synthetic = 280* F
0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 280* F
5W50 Motorcraft, API SN, synthetic = 275* F
5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic = 270*F (tested late 2015)
0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 270* F
5W30 Mobil 1 Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN = 265* F (this is an earlier version without GM dexos 1 approval)
5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic = 260*F (tested late 2015)
0W40 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN, synthetic = 260* F
5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved = 255*F (this was the latest current version when tested late 2015)
5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM, synthetic = 255* F
5W30 PurOl Elite Series, synthetic = 255*F
0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 210* F, and this is NOT a typo
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SEMI-SYNTHETIC GASOLINE ENGINE OILS:
0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1, semi-synthetic = 280* F
5W30 Castrol GTX Magnatec, synthetic blend = 260*F
5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic blend = 250*F (tested late 2015)
10W30 Renegade Pro Series Racing Oil, synthetic blend = 250* F
10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 240*F (tested late 2015)
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CONVENTIONAL GASOLINE ENGINE OILS:
5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional= 280* F
20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN, conventional = 275* F
10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil, silver bottle = 260* F
5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN, conventional, blue bottle = 255*F
Here are the “averages” for the onset of thermal breakdown of these GASOLINE ENGINE oils:
The 27 Full synthetic oils = 276* F
The 5 Semi-synthetic oils = 256* F
The 4 Conventional dino oils = 268* F
The average value for the onset of thermal breakdown for all 33 gasoline engine oils combined = 273* F.
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As you can see by looking at the average value for each oil type above, there was only a 10* difference between the average of the conventional oils and the average of the full synthetic oils. So, the real world observation here does NOT support common internet motor oil info claims about synthetic oils in general, having an unbelievable outrageously high temperature capability compared to other less expensive conventional oils. The fact is, the test data here shows that, while there are some significant individual differences, synthetic and conventional oils overall, are rather close in thermal capability. This means that conventional oils are still far better than most people think.
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SYNTHETIC DIESEL OILS:
RED LINE, 15W40 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 285* F
5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic = 280* F
MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 270* F
5W40 Amsoil Premium Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CF, SN, SM, ACEA E7, E9 = 265* F
ROYAL PURPLE, 15W40 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4
= 265* F
SHELL ROTELLA T6, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4/SM = 260* F
CHEVRON DELO 400LE, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM = 255* F
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CONVENTIONAL DIESEL OILS:
CASTROL GTX DIESEL, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN = 265* F
CHEVRON DELO 400LE, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL = 265* F
FARM RATED 15W40 Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, conventional, API CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ = 255* F
VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM = 255* F
MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 250* F
LUCAS 15W40 MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL = 250* F
“NEW” SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 250* F
“OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 250* F
Swepco 306 Supreme Forumula Engine Oil, 15W40 conventional, API CI-4/SL, CF-2 = 250*F
Here are the “averages” for the onset of thermal breakdown of these DIESEL oils:
The 7 full synthetic oils = 269* F
The 9 conventional oils = 254* F
The average value for the onset of thermal breakdown for all 16 Diesel oils combined = 261* F, which is 13* “LOWER” than the average of all 33 gasoline engine oils combined. That makes Diesel oils a poor choice for high performance gasoline engines, in terms of thermal breakdown capability.
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NOTE: Motor oils do NOT stop working the instant they reach their onset of thermal breakdown point. However, it is not a good idea to run oil above its thermal breakdown point for extended periods of time. Because that will degrade its capability more and more as time/mileage goes on.
Thermal breakdown is the point at which the composition of the oil begins to change due to the temperature it’s exposed to.
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The “Official” test for this is called the NOACK Volatility Test. In this test, per the ASTM spec, the oil is heated to 250*C (482*F) for one hour. The lighter oil fractions will vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions.
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The test reports results in the percentage, by weight, lost due to “volatilization.” Before July 1, 2001, 5W-30 motor oil in the United States could lose up to 22 percent of its weight and still be regarded as “passable.” Now, with GF-4, the maximum NOACK volatility for API licensing is 15 percent. European standards limit high quality oils to a maximum of 13 percent loss.
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This of course means that any motor oil that has been heated above its onset of thermal breakdown point, has started to deteriorate. So, reasonable oil change intervals should be followed. See Tech Article, “25. Recommended Oil Change Interval”, for more details.
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To find out how an assortment of oils actually perform in the real world, I heated the following oils, and below are the approximate temperatures (rounded to the nearest 5* increment) at which each oil started to “vaporize” (which looks like smoke to the casual observer, even though the oil is NOT actually burning), which indicated the onset of thermal breakdown:
SYNTHETIC GASOLINE ENGINE OILS:
10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil, synthetic = 300* F
10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil, synthetic = 300* F
5W30 Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic = 290*F (high temp tested late 2015)
5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic = 290* F
0W30 Mobil 1, API SN, Advanced Fuel Economy, synthetic = 290* F
0W30 Castrol Edge with Syntec (black bottle), API SL, European Formula, synthetic, made in Germany and sold in the U.S. = 290* F
0W40 Castrol Edge with Syntec (black bottle), API SN, European Formula, synthetic, made in Belgium and sold in the U.S. = 290* F
10W30 Lucas Racing Only, synthetic = 290* F
5W50 Mobil 1, API SN, synthetic = 290*F
5W30 Motul 300V, Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 285* F
0W40 Mobil 1, API SN, European Formula, synthetic, made in the U.S. = 285* F
5W30 Royal Purple XPR, synthetic = 285* F
5W30 Mobil Super Synthetic, API SN = 285*F
10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil, synthetic = 280* F
5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM, synthetic = 280* F
5W20 Castrol Edge w/Titanium, API SN, synthetic = 280* F
0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 280* F
5W50 Motorcraft, API SN, synthetic = 275* F
5W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic = 270*F (tested late 2015)
0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 270* F
5W30 Mobil 1 Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN = 265* F (this is an earlier version without GM dexos 1 approval)
5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic = 260*F (tested late 2015)
0W40 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN, synthetic = 260* F
5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved = 255*F (this was the latest current version when tested late 2015)
5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM, synthetic = 255* F
5W30 PurOl Elite Series, synthetic = 255*F
0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 210* F, and this is NOT a typo
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SEMI-SYNTHETIC GASOLINE ENGINE OILS:
0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1, semi-synthetic = 280* F
5W30 Castrol GTX Magnatec, synthetic blend = 260*F
5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic blend = 250*F (tested late 2015)
10W30 Renegade Pro Series Racing Oil, synthetic blend = 250* F
10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 240*F (tested late 2015)
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CONVENTIONAL GASOLINE ENGINE OILS:
5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional= 280* F
20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN, conventional = 275* F
10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil, silver bottle = 260* F
5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN, conventional, blue bottle = 255*F
Here are the “averages” for the onset of thermal breakdown of these GASOLINE ENGINE oils:
The 27 Full synthetic oils = 276* F
The 5 Semi-synthetic oils = 256* F
The 4 Conventional dino oils = 268* F
The average value for the onset of thermal breakdown for all 33 gasoline engine oils combined = 273* F.
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As you can see by looking at the average value for each oil type above, there was only a 10* difference between the average of the conventional oils and the average of the full synthetic oils. So, the real world observation here does NOT support common internet motor oil info claims about synthetic oils in general, having an unbelievable outrageously high temperature capability compared to other less expensive conventional oils. The fact is, the test data here shows that, while there are some significant individual differences, synthetic and conventional oils overall, are rather close in thermal capability. This means that conventional oils are still far better than most people think.
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SYNTHETIC DIESEL OILS:
RED LINE, 15W40 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 285* F
5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic = 280* F
MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 270* F
5W40 Amsoil Premium Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CF, SN, SM, ACEA E7, E9 = 265* F
ROYAL PURPLE, 15W40 Diesel Oil, synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4
= 265* F
SHELL ROTELLA T6, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4/SM = 260* F
CHEVRON DELO 400LE, 5W40 synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM = 255* F
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CONVENTIONAL DIESEL OILS:
CASTROL GTX DIESEL, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN = 265* F
CHEVRON DELO 400LE, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL = 265* F
FARM RATED 15W40 Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, conventional, API CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ = 255* F
VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM = 255* F
MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 250* F
LUCAS 15W40 MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL = 250* F
“NEW” SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 250* F
“OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T, 15W40 conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 250* F
Swepco 306 Supreme Forumula Engine Oil, 15W40 conventional, API CI-4/SL, CF-2 = 250*F
Here are the “averages” for the onset of thermal breakdown of these DIESEL oils:
The 7 full synthetic oils = 269* F
The 9 conventional oils = 254* F
The average value for the onset of thermal breakdown for all 16 Diesel oils combined = 261* F, which is 13* “LOWER” than the average of all 33 gasoline engine oils combined. That makes Diesel oils a poor choice for high performance gasoline engines, in terms of thermal breakdown capability.
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NOTE: Motor oils do NOT stop working the instant they reach their onset of thermal breakdown point. However, it is not a good idea to run oil above its thermal breakdown point for extended periods of time. Because that will degrade its capability more and more as time/mileage goes on.
13. DO COMPARABLE ZINC LEVELS PROVIDE COMPARABLE WEAR PROTECTION?
Some folks have a hard time accepting certain data that has come out of the motor oil “wear testing” that I’ve been performing. The result that is the hardest for them to accept is the outcome showing that an oil with a high level of zinc, will not automatically provide excellent wear protection. That runs counter to everything they’ve always been told over the years.
The data I’ve provided up to now has always included low zinc modern API certified oils along with traditional high zinc High Performance and Racing oils. But having so many oils of different types of oil in the same test, might be a bit overwhelming or confusing. So, here I’ve selected only 13 oils that all have between 1100 and 1800 ppm zinc. That way the comparison is just apples to apples. Now zinc levels vs wear protection can easily be compared straight across.
The excellent performance of many of these high zinc oils, shows that my testing equipment and test procedure do in fact, allow high zinc oils to perform as well as they are capable of performing.
Wear protection categories are:
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection
I’ve also included detergent levels for reference as well.
All the oils below are full synthetic unless otherwise specified.
The following group of 13 oils are ranked according to their “load carrying capacity/film strength”, or in other words, their “wear protection” performance, at 230*F. The higher the psi number, the better the wear protection. The tests were repeated multiple times for each oil, and then those results were averaged to arrive at the final psi numbers shown below. And every single oil was tested EXACTLY THE SAME.
1. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
total detergent = 1618 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.0
NOTE: Due to its very low TBN value, this oil is only suitable for short term racing use, and is not suitable for street use.
2. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
(.3% below no.1)
zinc = 1472 ppm
total detergent = 2787 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.9
3. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
(2.6% below no.1)
zinc = 1180 ppm
total detergent = 2683 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.9
4. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil = 95,360 psi
(8.2% below no.1)
zinc = 1431 ppm
total detergent = 2927 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio =2.0
5. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil = 86,270 psi
(16.9% below no.1)
zinc = 1247 ppm
total detergent = 3134 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.5
6. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) = 74,860 psi
(27.9% below no.1)
zinc = 1421 ppm
total detergent = 3050 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.1
7. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ (conventional) = 73,176 psi
(29.5% below no.1)
zinc = 1325ppm
total detergent = 1593 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.2
8. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,377 psi
(31.3% below no.1)
zinc = 1621 ppm
total detergent = 2939 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.8
9. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,206 psi
(31.4% below no.1)
zinc = 1557 ppm
total detergent = 3173 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.0
10. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN = 70,235 psi
(32.4% below no.1)
zinc = 1133 ppm
total detergent = 1437 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.3
11. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) = 66,211 psi
(36.2% below no.1)
zinc = 1774 ppm
total detergent = 3676 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.1
12. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
(36.9% below no.1)
zinc = 1154 ppm
total detergent = 1999 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio =1.1
13. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
(39.4% below no.1)
zinc = 1170 ppm
total detergent = 3184 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.7
SUMMARY:
As you can see, the number one oil above, the 10W30 Valvoline NSL Conventional Racing Oil, has 1669 ppm zinc and 103,846 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”. But, the number 11 oil, the 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street), has 1774 ppm zinc, but ONLY 66,211 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”, which is a WHOPPING 36.2% below the number one Valvoline.
On top of that, the number one Valvoline is conventional dino oil, while the Royal Purple is synthetic. So, many people might not expect conventional oil to perform so well, since synthetic oil gets all the hype. Conventional oil is still quite good and does not get the respect it deserves. It’s sort of like the fact that Chevy’s late model high performance push rod engines are still quite good, even though most all other modern vehicles use overhead cam designs and get most of the hype.
If you had only looked at the spec sheet for each of these two oils, you’d assume they were equal in wear protection because their zinc levels were essentially the same. But nothing could be further from the truth. This is real world test data (not just some theory), which compared motor oils against each other under the EXACT SAME test conditions. So, this is a perfect example of the fact, that you cannot simply look at the zinc value on an oil’s spec sheet, and assume that you can predict how well it will provide wear protection. Things are just NOT that simple in the real world.
And for those folks who want to avoid high levels of detergent in their oils, for fear that an oil with a lot of detergent will not be able to provide adequate wear protection, let’s look at that above as well. The oils ranked 1st and 12th both had low levels of detergent. And the oils ranked 2nd and 13th both had high or relatively high levels of detergent. The rest of the oils were a mixed bag of high and low detergent oils. So, that is proof that detergent levels are a non-issue, and that there are better things to worry about.
You simply cannot believe all the misinformation you come across about motor oil, on the Internet, on Forums, and elsewhere. The bottom line is that, the only way to really KNOW how well an oil can provide wear protection, is to perform real world “wear testing” at a representative temperature, and see how it performs dynamically, under load. It’s the same kind of reason that we dyno test engines, rather than simply looking at their build sheets. “Wear testing” motor oil is the gold standard, just like “dyno testing” an engine is the gold standard. Anything else is simply guessing.
As I’ve said before, there are no BAD oils here. They all will generally work well enough in most applications. But, some do clearly provide a higher level of reserve “extra protection capability” than others. Of course you can decide for yourself, how much reserve “extra protection capability” is good enough for your needs.
Some folks have a hard time accepting certain data that has come out of the motor oil “wear testing” that I’ve been performing. The result that is the hardest for them to accept is the outcome showing that an oil with a high level of zinc, will not automatically provide excellent wear protection. That runs counter to everything they’ve always been told over the years.
The data I’ve provided up to now has always included low zinc modern API certified oils along with traditional high zinc High Performance and Racing oils. But having so many oils of different types of oil in the same test, might be a bit overwhelming or confusing. So, here I’ve selected only 13 oils that all have between 1100 and 1800 ppm zinc. That way the comparison is just apples to apples. Now zinc levels vs wear protection can easily be compared straight across.
The excellent performance of many of these high zinc oils, shows that my testing equipment and test procedure do in fact, allow high zinc oils to perform as well as they are capable of performing.
Wear protection categories are:
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection
I’ve also included detergent levels for reference as well.
All the oils below are full synthetic unless otherwise specified.
The following group of 13 oils are ranked according to their “load carrying capacity/film strength”, or in other words, their “wear protection” performance, at 230*F. The higher the psi number, the better the wear protection. The tests were repeated multiple times for each oil, and then those results were averaged to arrive at the final psi numbers shown below. And every single oil was tested EXACTLY THE SAME.
1. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
total detergent = 1618 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.0
NOTE: Due to its very low TBN value, this oil is only suitable for short term racing use, and is not suitable for street use.
2. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
(.3% below no.1)
zinc = 1472 ppm
total detergent = 2787 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.9
3. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
(2.6% below no.1)
zinc = 1180 ppm
total detergent = 2683 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.9
4. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil = 95,360 psi
(8.2% below no.1)
zinc = 1431 ppm
total detergent = 2927 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio =2.0
5. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil = 86,270 psi
(16.9% below no.1)
zinc = 1247 ppm
total detergent = 3134 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.5
6. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) = 74,860 psi
(27.9% below no.1)
zinc = 1421 ppm
total detergent = 3050 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.1
7. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ (conventional) = 73,176 psi
(29.5% below no.1)
zinc = 1325ppm
total detergent = 1593 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.2
8. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,377 psi
(31.3% below no.1)
zinc = 1621 ppm
total detergent = 2939 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.8
9. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 (semi-synthetic) = 71,206 psi
(31.4% below no.1)
zinc = 1557 ppm
total detergent = 3173 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.0
10. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN = 70,235 psi
(32.4% below no.1)
zinc = 1133 ppm
total detergent = 1437 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 1.3
11. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) = 66,211 psi
(36.2% below no.1)
zinc = 1774 ppm
total detergent = 3676 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.1
12. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil conventional, API SJ = 65,553 psi
(36.9% below no.1)
zinc = 1154 ppm
total detergent = 1999 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio =1.1
13. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
(39.4% below no.1)
zinc = 1170 ppm
total detergent = 3184 ppm
detergent ppm/zinc ppm ratio = 2.7
SUMMARY:
As you can see, the number one oil above, the 10W30 Valvoline NSL Conventional Racing Oil, has 1669 ppm zinc and 103,846 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”. But, the number 11 oil, the 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street), has 1774 ppm zinc, but ONLY 66,211 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength”, which is a WHOPPING 36.2% below the number one Valvoline.
On top of that, the number one Valvoline is conventional dino oil, while the Royal Purple is synthetic. So, many people might not expect conventional oil to perform so well, since synthetic oil gets all the hype. Conventional oil is still quite good and does not get the respect it deserves. It’s sort of like the fact that Chevy’s late model high performance push rod engines are still quite good, even though most all other modern vehicles use overhead cam designs and get most of the hype.
If you had only looked at the spec sheet for each of these two oils, you’d assume they were equal in wear protection because their zinc levels were essentially the same. But nothing could be further from the truth. This is real world test data (not just some theory), which compared motor oils against each other under the EXACT SAME test conditions. So, this is a perfect example of the fact, that you cannot simply look at the zinc value on an oil’s spec sheet, and assume that you can predict how well it will provide wear protection. Things are just NOT that simple in the real world.
And for those folks who want to avoid high levels of detergent in their oils, for fear that an oil with a lot of detergent will not be able to provide adequate wear protection, let’s look at that above as well. The oils ranked 1st and 12th both had low levels of detergent. And the oils ranked 2nd and 13th both had high or relatively high levels of detergent. The rest of the oils were a mixed bag of high and low detergent oils. So, that is proof that detergent levels are a non-issue, and that there are better things to worry about.
You simply cannot believe all the misinformation you come across about motor oil, on the Internet, on Forums, and elsewhere. The bottom line is that, the only way to really KNOW how well an oil can provide wear protection, is to perform real world “wear testing” at a representative temperature, and see how it performs dynamically, under load. It’s the same kind of reason that we dyno test engines, rather than simply looking at their build sheets. “Wear testing” motor oil is the gold standard, just like “dyno testing” an engine is the gold standard. Anything else is simply guessing.
As I’ve said before, there are no BAD oils here. They all will generally work well enough in most applications. But, some do clearly provide a higher level of reserve “extra protection capability” than others. Of course you can decide for yourself, how much reserve “extra protection capability” is good enough for your needs.
MOTOR OIL AGE
Oil Companies in the U.S. don’t post how long their oils are good for. But, history has shown that there is no technical reason for quality motor oil to go bad inside its factory sealed bottle, even after quite a few years. However, I have seen the additive package components settle to the bottom of the bottle. So, if the bottle is not shaken well, before the oil is poured out, then depending on how long it has been sitting, the oil could be lacking much of its critical additive package. And that could compromise the oils performance capability. So, it’s quite important that motor oil bottles are always shaken well before pouring the oil into an engine. That way, you can be sure to get the full capability that the oil was formulated with.
Other than on Quaker State and Pennzoil bottles, I almost never see manufacturing dates on motor oil bottles. And I have never seen an expiration date on a bottle of motor oil in the U.S. So, I typically never know how old motor oil really is.
In my experience, motor oil has always been perfectly fine whenever I have opened a new factory sealed bottle. In fact, I also have never seen a problem when using motor oil from an old partially used bottle that had the cap put tightly back on.
From what I have been able to determine over the years, for motor oil that has been in a tightly sealed bottle, and therefore not exposed to the open atmosphere, age is simply not a critical issue. And I do not have any technical data that would indicate otherwise.
It appears that the clock on motor oil aging, really begins when it is poured out of its bottle, where it is then exposed to the open atmosphere, and to the conditions inside an engine.
So, in addition to recommending that motor oil be changed at reasonable mileage intervals, I also recommend changing the oil if it has been inside an engine for a year or more, even if it has not reached a normal oil change mileage interval. That will prevent any concern there may be about motor oil aging.
Oil Companies in the U.S. don’t post how long their oils are good for. But, history has shown that there is no technical reason for quality motor oil to go bad inside its factory sealed bottle, even after quite a few years. However, I have seen the additive package components settle to the bottom of the bottle. So, if the bottle is not shaken well, before the oil is poured out, then depending on how long it has been sitting, the oil could be lacking much of its critical additive package. And that could compromise the oils performance capability. So, it’s quite important that motor oil bottles are always shaken well before pouring the oil into an engine. That way, you can be sure to get the full capability that the oil was formulated with.
Other than on Quaker State and Pennzoil bottles, I almost never see manufacturing dates on motor oil bottles. And I have never seen an expiration date on a bottle of motor oil in the U.S. So, I typically never know how old motor oil really is.
In my experience, motor oil has always been perfectly fine whenever I have opened a new factory sealed bottle. In fact, I also have never seen a problem when using motor oil from an old partially used bottle that had the cap put tightly back on.
From what I have been able to determine over the years, for motor oil that has been in a tightly sealed bottle, and therefore not exposed to the open atmosphere, age is simply not a critical issue. And I do not have any technical data that would indicate otherwise.
It appears that the clock on motor oil aging, really begins when it is poured out of its bottle, where it is then exposed to the open atmosphere, and to the conditions inside an engine.
So, in addition to recommending that motor oil be changed at reasonable mileage intervals, I also recommend changing the oil if it has been inside an engine for a year or more, even if it has not reached a normal oil change mileage interval. That will prevent any concern there may be about motor oil aging.
Failure Data from a Bushing type Solid Roller Lifter
Let me say right up front, that this write-up is in no way slamming ISKY’ EZ Roll bushing type solid roller lifters. On the contrary, this info will show how well they hold up, considering that ANY solid roller lifter is a maintenance item that will need to be replaced regularly.
Here’s a little background info on solid roller lifters in general. Keeping an eye out for any lash changes, as well as regular removal and inspection is basically the standard recommendation for running solid roller lifters. But, the problem is, that ultimately may not save your engine. Here’s why, the root cause of their failure is metal surface fatigue failure from all the jackhammer pounding they take from not following the carefully designed cam lobe ramps, when they bounce around within the lash slop. They are not forced to ride nicely on the lobes like hydraulic lifters are. And since solid roller lifters don’t always directly ride on a lobe, the opening/closing lobe ramp design goes right out the window, and the roller gets smacked by the lobe, or smacks down on the lobe, depending on if it is rising of falling. The larger the lash, the worse this is. Eventually, this repeated over and over jackhammer pounding takes it toll, and metal surface fatigue failure bites you. You can’t predict it, you can only see it once it begins. And to add insult to injury, you could inspect your lifters one day when they look and feel just fine, and the next day they can suffer metal fatigue failure and things go south.
Bushing type solid roller lifters are way more durable than the needle type, because the needles only make a very tiny line contact (thus extremely high psi loading values are seen), so they are severely overloaded in this application. Plus, in .842 lifters, only the bottom 3 needles take all the load. They are just a failure waiting to happen.
But, the bushing type lifters provide a far larger surface contact (thus they see far lower psi loading values). ISKY says their EZ Roll bushing type solid roller lifters provide a 350% higher load rating than comparable needle type solid roller lifters. However, even the bushing lifters are not immune to failure. The bushing type lifters are subject to roller OD metal fatigue failure, but the needle lifters are subject to “BOTH” needle and roller OD metal fatigue failure.
And this brings us to the subject of this write-up. A car Forum member contacted me about a solid roller lifter that had failed in his engine. He knew I had performed root cause failure analysis on a few sets of failed needle type solid roller lifters, a few years back. So, he sent me his bad bushing type solid roller lifter for failure analysis.
He runs a 467ci Mark IV BBC in his street Hotrod, that see’s a lot of “spirited driving”. The rev limiter is set to 6800 rpm, though the most common normal rpm seen is in the 3000 to 3500 range. his cam specs are 243*/249* duration at .050 tappet lift, 112 LSA, and .668 lift. Lash is .008 cold, .014 hot with aluminum heads. Spring pressures are 210 lbs on the seat, and 525 lbs open. His solid roller lifters are .842 diameter ISKY EZ Roll bushing type.
He doesn’t let it idle. As soon as it fires, he starts driving although not too heavy on the gas until it warms up. He also pre-heats it on chilly mornings with an oil pan heater and a block heater. He also uses an Amsoil pre-luber. And he has been using Valvoline 10W-30 with a can of Moly Slip E added with each oil change, at approximately 1500-2000 miles. Valve lash gets checked a couple of times a summer, as does spring pressure. He put 25,000 miles on these lifters when he had this lifter failure that took out the associated lobe, and the debris from all that also opened up the lifter bore. The whole thing required an engine rebuild. Not fun, to say the least.
Here are the results of my analysis:
The remaining good lifter of the pair, for comparison:
Roller OD looked fine, and OD = .7500
Bushing ID looked fine, and ID = .3200
Axle looked fine, and OD = .3176 to .3179, with average = .31775
Bushing/axle clearance = .0021 to .0024, with average = .00225
***
Failed lifter:
Roller OD was completely destroyed from a text book case of metal surface fatigue failure, which is exhibited by flaking and pitting called spalling. The OD = .5870 to .6178, with average = .6024, so about .150 worth of diameter had flaked and crumbled off, thus destroying the associated lobe in the process.
Bushing ID generally looked alright, but there were signs of debris having worked through the clearance, causing wear and some scratches. The ID = .3223 to .3230, with average = .32265.
Axle looked fine, and OD = .3173 to .3182, with average = .31775
Bushing/axle clearance = .0041 to .0057, with average = .0049
BOTTOM LINE:
He did quite well with these ISKY EZ Roll lifters in terms of how many miles they lasted, even though it ended up causing a rebuild. Solid roller lifters in general, are a fairly poor design, because, as mentioned above, they are subject to the non-stop jackhammer pounding as the lifters bounce around within their lash slop. They get pounded because they cannot faithfully follow the lobe’s opening and closing ramps. Eventually, the pounding takes its toll, and the unavoidable metal surface fatigue failure results.
And for the record, NOTHING you do with oil or oil additives will make any difference here, because oil has absolutely nothing to do with this type of failure. Idling also has NO affect on this failure either. Idling generates the lowest loading and pounding these lifters will ever see, because the valve train acceleration is at its lowest value during idling.
This problem is simply a fact of the Physics involved, and cannot be avoided with this design. So, there is no absolutely safe plan when it comes to running solid roller lifters. They can fail at seemingly any amount of time or mileage. All you can do is replace solid roller lifters with fresh ones at an interval before metal surface fatigue failure results, which may take out your engine as well. What that interval is, is the million dollar question, for which there is no clear absolute answer. Everyone has to make their own judgment call on that. Words to live by – you can never replace solid roller lifters too often…
Let me say right up front, that this write-up is in no way slamming ISKY’ EZ Roll bushing type solid roller lifters. On the contrary, this info will show how well they hold up, considering that ANY solid roller lifter is a maintenance item that will need to be replaced regularly.
Here’s a little background info on solid roller lifters in general. Keeping an eye out for any lash changes, as well as regular removal and inspection is basically the standard recommendation for running solid roller lifters. But, the problem is, that ultimately may not save your engine. Here’s why, the root cause of their failure is metal surface fatigue failure from all the jackhammer pounding they take from not following the carefully designed cam lobe ramps, when they bounce around within the lash slop. They are not forced to ride nicely on the lobes like hydraulic lifters are. And since solid roller lifters don’t always directly ride on a lobe, the opening/closing lobe ramp design goes right out the window, and the roller gets smacked by the lobe, or smacks down on the lobe, depending on if it is rising of falling. The larger the lash, the worse this is. Eventually, this repeated over and over jackhammer pounding takes it toll, and metal surface fatigue failure bites you. You can’t predict it, you can only see it once it begins. And to add insult to injury, you could inspect your lifters one day when they look and feel just fine, and the next day they can suffer metal fatigue failure and things go south.
Bushing type solid roller lifters are way more durable than the needle type, because the needles only make a very tiny line contact (thus extremely high psi loading values are seen), so they are severely overloaded in this application. Plus, in .842 lifters, only the bottom 3 needles take all the load. They are just a failure waiting to happen.
But, the bushing type lifters provide a far larger surface contact (thus they see far lower psi loading values). ISKY says their EZ Roll bushing type solid roller lifters provide a 350% higher load rating than comparable needle type solid roller lifters. However, even the bushing lifters are not immune to failure. The bushing type lifters are subject to roller OD metal fatigue failure, but the needle lifters are subject to “BOTH” needle and roller OD metal fatigue failure.
And this brings us to the subject of this write-up. A car Forum member contacted me about a solid roller lifter that had failed in his engine. He knew I had performed root cause failure analysis on a few sets of failed needle type solid roller lifters, a few years back. So, he sent me his bad bushing type solid roller lifter for failure analysis.
He runs a 467ci Mark IV BBC in his street Hotrod, that see’s a lot of “spirited driving”. The rev limiter is set to 6800 rpm, though the most common normal rpm seen is in the 3000 to 3500 range. his cam specs are 243*/249* duration at .050 tappet lift, 112 LSA, and .668 lift. Lash is .008 cold, .014 hot with aluminum heads. Spring pressures are 210 lbs on the seat, and 525 lbs open. His solid roller lifters are .842 diameter ISKY EZ Roll bushing type.
He doesn’t let it idle. As soon as it fires, he starts driving although not too heavy on the gas until it warms up. He also pre-heats it on chilly mornings with an oil pan heater and a block heater. He also uses an Amsoil pre-luber. And he has been using Valvoline 10W-30 with a can of Moly Slip E added with each oil change, at approximately 1500-2000 miles. Valve lash gets checked a couple of times a summer, as does spring pressure. He put 25,000 miles on these lifters when he had this lifter failure that took out the associated lobe, and the debris from all that also opened up the lifter bore. The whole thing required an engine rebuild. Not fun, to say the least.
Here are the results of my analysis:
The remaining good lifter of the pair, for comparison:
Roller OD looked fine, and OD = .7500
Bushing ID looked fine, and ID = .3200
Axle looked fine, and OD = .3176 to .3179, with average = .31775
Bushing/axle clearance = .0021 to .0024, with average = .00225
***
Failed lifter:
Roller OD was completely destroyed from a text book case of metal surface fatigue failure, which is exhibited by flaking and pitting called spalling. The OD = .5870 to .6178, with average = .6024, so about .150 worth of diameter had flaked and crumbled off, thus destroying the associated lobe in the process.
Bushing ID generally looked alright, but there were signs of debris having worked through the clearance, causing wear and some scratches. The ID = .3223 to .3230, with average = .32265.
Axle looked fine, and OD = .3173 to .3182, with average = .31775
Bushing/axle clearance = .0041 to .0057, with average = .0049
BOTTOM LINE:
He did quite well with these ISKY EZ Roll lifters in terms of how many miles they lasted, even though it ended up causing a rebuild. Solid roller lifters in general, are a fairly poor design, because, as mentioned above, they are subject to the non-stop jackhammer pounding as the lifters bounce around within their lash slop. They get pounded because they cannot faithfully follow the lobe’s opening and closing ramps. Eventually, the pounding takes its toll, and the unavoidable metal surface fatigue failure results.
And for the record, NOTHING you do with oil or oil additives will make any difference here, because oil has absolutely nothing to do with this type of failure. Idling also has NO affect on this failure either. Idling generates the lowest loading and pounding these lifters will ever see, because the valve train acceleration is at its lowest value during idling.
This problem is simply a fact of the Physics involved, and cannot be avoided with this design. So, there is no absolutely safe plan when it comes to running solid roller lifters. They can fail at seemingly any amount of time or mileage. All you can do is replace solid roller lifters with fresh ones at an interval before metal surface fatigue failure results, which may take out your engine as well. What that interval is, is the million dollar question, for which there is no clear absolute answer. Everyone has to make their own judgment call on that. Words to live by – you can never replace solid roller lifters too often…
MikeyLawless
Well-known member
Very enlightening on the oil analysis! It seems my long-time preferred oil, Brad Penn, did not perform as well on load testing as many of the other oils did. But, I've had really good luck with it over the years, and it works with Methanol fuel far better than the Valvoline racing oils. So my son and I still use it in our drag race VW. Have not had an oil related failure, once we got the inherent oil system issues with these motors worked out. That most had to do with keeping oil where it belongs...where oil pump can pick it up and oil the motor!
But that said, I'm using Lucas hot rod oil in my 300. I have quite bit less lifter noise upon initial start up than I did with BP. That's gotta be worth something, I reckon. Fairly inexpensive and easy to get
But, back to the topic at hand, fuel mileage.
I put together my 300 in my '65 F100 with fuel mileage and reliability as the main goal, without getting too crazy. The basic motor is bone stock, except for an unported 240 head and 351W pistons that have a bit less dish than the 300 replacement piston did. Static CR is just a fuzz under 9-1. Dual EFI exhaust manifolds, a stock iron log intake with a Holley 1100 single barrel Sniper EFI unit. It does have a Vintage Air compressor made by Sandeen. The biggest boost to mileage is the Tremec T5 trans, with a .63 overdrive 5th gear. The rear gear ratio is 3.54.
In town fuel mileage isn't what I'd like to see. 11.5 to 13mpg. I drive very conservatively. I think most of this is due to the length of in town trips. The Sniper gets out of cold run mode (12.8-1 AFR) at 140° coolant temp. Most times, the motor gets up to temp close to the end of my trip.
Highway mileage is a whole 'nuther story. 22mpg give or take a bit, depending on hills and other conditions. RPM at 65mph is about 1700. It pulls that quite easily. At 70, the mileage drops to 19 to 20. So, the "brick-like" aerodynamics come into play it seems.
Which is fine by me. I just stay in the right lane and let those who are in a big hurry to get somewheres pass me by.
But that said, I'm using Lucas hot rod oil in my 300. I have quite bit less lifter noise upon initial start up than I did with BP. That's gotta be worth something, I reckon. Fairly inexpensive and easy to get
But, back to the topic at hand, fuel mileage.
I put together my 300 in my '65 F100 with fuel mileage and reliability as the main goal, without getting too crazy. The basic motor is bone stock, except for an unported 240 head and 351W pistons that have a bit less dish than the 300 replacement piston did. Static CR is just a fuzz under 9-1. Dual EFI exhaust manifolds, a stock iron log intake with a Holley 1100 single barrel Sniper EFI unit. It does have a Vintage Air compressor made by Sandeen. The biggest boost to mileage is the Tremec T5 trans, with a .63 overdrive 5th gear. The rear gear ratio is 3.54.
In town fuel mileage isn't what I'd like to see. 11.5 to 13mpg. I drive very conservatively. I think most of this is due to the length of in town trips. The Sniper gets out of cold run mode (12.8-1 AFR) at 140° coolant temp. Most times, the motor gets up to temp close to the end of my trip.
Highway mileage is a whole 'nuther story. 22mpg give or take a bit, depending on hills and other conditions. RPM at 65mph is about 1700. It pulls that quite easily. At 70, the mileage drops to 19 to 20. So, the "brick-like" aerodynamics come into play it seems.
Which is fine by me. I just stay in the right lane and let those who are in a big hurry to get somewheres pass me by.
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Thanks for the detailed breakdown. Have you researched the design and tech behind medium and heavy duty diesels' lifters? They have been solid rollers for several decades. I have not looked into them in particular (just ran them for 28 years), but would suspect the reason for their million-mile longevity is 1) size. Every part in these engines is large, "overbuilt" relative to gas engines. 2) mild cam slopes. 3) low RPM operation. 4) Relative to size diesel-to-gas, the spring pressure is proportionally less. However what is NOT less is the injector cam lobe pressure, on the engines which use the camshaft to drive the injector. (Detroit Diesel). Particularly the electronic generation beginning in '89, where injection pressures were significantly increased for efficiency and emissions. The switch to overhead cam coincided with the increased injection pressures, probably by necessity. Can't remember the stat on the injector lobe roller-solid lifter and roller-rocker pressure, but it's in the several thousands of PSI. And the ramp (opening rate) is shorter but steeper than a valve lobe. The cam lobe and lifter roller tip which drives the injector is over an inch wide on the DD 60 series engines, and the roller is made of ceramic.
Pounding due to excess lash can cause them to fail too though. Had one DD 60 shatter the ceramic roller and wipe the cam lobe on a truck I had bought several months earlier, and had put off taking it in for "running the overhead". That was a costly mistake.
AlphaGeek
Well-known member
I have an issue with the statement, "No motor oil can ever go 20,000 miles". (I know I cut off the important part), I drove a company truck that we never changed the oil. Only added to when needed, if we ever checked it all. Just add a lil gear oil so it stunk real bad when full, when you didn't smell it anymore, add a quart or two.
Correct. In the later part of my trucking days when the Quik-Change oil shops came on the scene, began paying the extra few bucks for oil analysis. Long-and-short of it, changed filters every 10,000 miles (about 220 hours) and Rotella conventional oil was still at 30% necessary detergents at 60,000 miles. Went from "by the book" 10,000 mile oil change interval to 60,000- 75,000 miles. Granted this was on a clean-burning Detroit 60 Series Electronic Control engine. Greyhound has had a 100,000 mile oil change schedule forever, as well as some of the large trucking companies.
But a true story that I still find unbelievable, but witnessed it- two Gray Marine 6-71 GM 2 stroke diesels, the oil was never changed from 1960- mid 80's. Capt. Johnny had a big by-pass contraption that used toilet paper rolls for filtration. He changed the filters regularly- the oil, never. His two trawlers ran good year in, year out without premature overhauls. All the engines of this design and vintage consumed some oil (my '63 model 8V-71, about 1/2 gallon per 14 hour day.) So there was fresh detergents being added. But he did not change the oil.