All Small Six Impossible 144 Cid

This relates to all small sixes

Bicsibill

New member
I appear to have a motor that cannot possibly exist. I purchased a really nice 66 Coup from an auction three years ago. It was sold as a 200 Cid except it turns out it is not. Last week I blew the head gasket between cylinders 4 and 5. No big deal. Pulled the head and started measuring everything while I was in there. The engine has Clifford headers, claimed a Delta Camshaft and a two stage Weber carburetor. Drive train is a Tremec 5 spd with 4.11 rear gears. The car pulls really hard, like set you right back in the seat fun so I figured it must be stroked or something to make it accelerate so hard.
Hahh. Bore is .020" over, no big deal. Block has five freeze plugs so that is a 200 Cid. The stroke, an impossible stroke, ready for this? 2.5". Read that again, 2.5" which equates to a 144 cubic inch motor. I have two professional mechanics verify I am not crazy, well maybe a little. So someone explain to me how someone stuffed a 144 crank with (4) main bearings into a 200 Cid block that has (7) main bearings (WTF). Oh and it gets even better, the head has the Hexagonal log which means it came off of a 250 Cid. 1.75" Intake, 1.40" Exhaust. I cc'd the head at 68cc. That gives me a whopping compression ratio of 6 to 1.
This thing should not even be able to run let alone go like hell. So what the heck is this thing? Curiosity is killing me.

Head E22E 8090 BB
Block 8Z D8BE 6015-GE
I can't claim I got these numbers exactly correct because some of them were a bit muddled as cast.

Captain Bill awaits your wisdom on this matter. 🤣
 
Not 100% sure, but I think I read in a tread here that you can put a 4 main crank in a 7 main block by machining out the 2nd, 4th, and 6th main saddles from the block. Don't know what differences there may be in main bearing sizes.

Maybe some one else can confirm this.

Can you post some pics of the bottom side of the block?
 
Hahh. Bore is .020" over, no big deal. Block has five freeze plugs so that is a 200 Cid. The stroke, an impossible stroke, ready for this? 2.5". Read that again, 2.5" which equates to a 144 cubic inch motor. I have two professional mechanics verify I am not crazy, well maybe a little. So someone explain to me how someone stuffed a 144 crank with (4) main bearings into a 200 Cid block that has (7) main bearings (WTF). Oh and it gets even better, the head has the Hexagonal log which means it came off of a 250 Cid. 1.75" Intake, 1.40" Exhaust. I cc'd the head at 68cc. That gives me a whopping compression ratio of 6 to 1.
This thing should not even be able to run let alone go like hell. So what the heck is this thing? Curiosity is killing me.
Hi Captain Bill, and a big Welcome to the Ford Six Forum! Some picture's would sure be helpful. A .020 overbore give you a 3.700 Bore size (that is excellent). Would like to verify how your Stroke Measurement was done as yes this dose seem to be imposable. This block's Design Number indicates a 1978 or newer 200 and yes it would have 5 Freeze Plugs on the exhaust side of the block. It will definitely also have 7 Mains as do all other 1965 to 1983 200 Six's. There are Block and Date Codes that you will need to find if you want to know the exact Day Month and Year that those parts were cast at the Ford Engine Foundry. How many Bolts are holding on the Water Pump to the short Block? All Ford 200 Six 7 Main Crankshaft's will have a 3.126 Stroke length. It's a fact that a 4 Main 144 Crankshaft can't easily be put into any of the 1965 up 7 Main Block's, however any Crankshaft could have been De-Stroked but that still won't answer the question of why it would of been done. Using a 2.50 inch stroke in any 200 Six Block would also require the use of a 144 Connecting Rod (Length of 4.855 or a Custom aftermarket one that's near near that length) Plus a Custom made Piston, are there any signs of those parts being used? It would also of been little costly to do that kind of Combo and then not even have built it with a decent 9.0 to 9.2 to 1 C.R. This Combo would give you 161.28 CID Short Block and yes it would be a high Revving Combo.

Head E22E 8090 BB there is something definitely wrong with the letters there, these late heads 1982 and 1983 can be off of either a 200 or 250 Six and they will be Identical. Stock these Heads also usually will have around a 62 CC Combustion Chamber, so did someone do a lot of grinding in the Combustion Chambers? Running those numbers I get a 6.33 to 1 C.R. that should make it way down on power.

Block D8BE 6015-GE there is also something wrong with some those Design Letters there too. If this is a 200 engine it would of most likely been out a Fox Chassis car such as a Fairmont, Mustang, or Capri. Best of luck
 
sure 3 or 5 Freeze plugs along block by starter ? .

and are the pistons flat or dished ? .

hav e fun

C8DE ( see between header tubes) and W/3 Freeze Plugs ...

 
The only reason that someone would do that is that they were running in a class where it fit the rules best at that CID.
Is there not a salt flats class that has a 161 or whatever the reduced stroke is break?
 
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Looking at my C6DE-6015-B short block with #1 & #6 at TDC, the other four pistons are about 2.5” down the hole. I took a 3/4” wrench and turned the flywheel from 12:00 to 2:00. Now #2 & #5 measure 3 1/8” to BDC. Maybe that’s what is happening here. I saw the same thing at first.
 
You could be right, but what about the two professional mechanics, they could not turn the crank and watch the piston go all the way down and measure before it starts to come up. Probably found that out and why Captain Bill has not been back.
 
I appear to have a motor that cannot possibly exist. I purchased a really nice 66 Coup from an auction three years ago. It was sold as a 200 Cid except it turns out it is not. Last week I blew the head gasket between cylinders 4 and 5. No big deal. Pulled the head and started measuring everything while I was in there. The engine has Clifford headers, claimed a Delta Camshaft and a two stage Weber carburetor. Drive train is a Tremec 5 spd with 4.11 rear gears. The car pulls really hard, like set you right back in the seat fun so I figured it must be stroked or something to make it accelerate so hard.
Hahh. Bore is .020" over, no big deal. Block has five freeze plugs so that is a 200 Cid. The stroke, an impossible stroke, ready for this? 2.5". Read that again, 2.5" which equates to a 144 cubic inch motor. I have two professional mechanics verify I am not crazy, well maybe a little. So someone explain to me how someone stuffed a 144 crank with (4) main bearings into a 200 Cid block that has (7) main bearings (WTF). Oh and it gets even better, the head has the Hexagonal log which means it came off of a 250 Cid. 1.75" Intake, 1.40" Exhaust. I cc'd the head at 68cc. That gives me a whopping compression ratio of 6 to 1.
This thing should not even be able to run let alone go like hell. So what the heck is this thing? Curiosity is killing me.

Head E22E 8090 BB
Block 8Z D8BE 6015-GE
I can't claim I got these numbers exactly correct because some of them were a bit muddled as cast.

Captain Bill awaits your wisdom on this matter. 🤣
Yes a 144 Crank will go in a 7 main block but you either need to increase the main size or reduce the block bearing bore size, Its a lot of work.
 
Hi Captain Bill, and a big Welcome to the Ford Six Forum! Some picture's would sure be helpful. A .020 overbore give you a 3.700 Bore size (that is excellent). Would like to verify how your Stroke Measurement was done as yes this dose seem to be imposable. This block's Design Number indicates a 1978 or newer 200 and yes it would have 5 Freeze Plugs on the exhaust side of the block. It will definitely also have 7 Mains as do all other 1965 to 1983 200 Six's. There are Block and Date Codes that you will need to find if you want to know the exact Day Month and Year that those parts were cast at the Ford Engine Foundry. How many Bolts are holding on the Water Pump to the short Block? All Ford 200 Six 7 Main Crankshaft's will have a 3.126 Stroke length. It's a fact that a 4 Main 144 Crankshaft can't easily be put into any of the 1965 up 7 Main Block's, however any Crankshaft could have been De-Stroked but that still won't answer the question of why it would of been done. Using a 2.50 inch stroke in any 200 Six Block would also require the use of a 144 Connecting Rod (Length of 4.855 or a Custom aftermarket one that's near near that length) Plus a Custom made Piston, are there any signs of those parts being used? It would also of been little costly to do that kind of Combo and then not even have built it with a decent 9.0 to 9.2 to 1 C.R. This Combo would give you 161.28 CID Short Block and yes it would be a high Revving Combo.

Head E22E 8090 BB there is something definitely wrong with the letters there, these late heads 1982 and 1983 can be off of either a 200 or 250 Six and they will be Identical. Stock these Heads also usually will have around a 62 CC Combustion Chamber, so did someone do a lot of grinding in the Combustion Chambers? Running those numbers I get a 6.33 to 1 C.R. that should make it way down on power.

Block D8BE 6015-GE there is also something wrong with some those Design Letters there too. If this is a 200 engine it would of most likely been out a Fox Chassis car such as a Fairmont, Mustang, or Capri. Best of luck
The curiosity is killing me. Looks like I am going to have to pull the oil pan. Stroke was measured with a depth gage verified by two certified mechanics.
 
You could be right, but what about the two professional mechanics, they could not turn the crank and watch the piston go all the way down and measure before it starts to come up. Probably found that out and why Captain Bill has not been back.
I'm back. I have had company down from Michigan to help rebuild my pool cage damaged thanks to Hurricane Ian. I am off this week too, still lots of Hurricane damage to deal with which is why I have not dropped the oil pan yet.
Using a dial indicator caliper slash depth gauge, we measured each and every one of the cylinders to confirm that each piston was indeed at bottom dead center before measuring the stroke. My roommate is a former aircraft mechanic and later a BMW mechanic. My neighbor across the street has worked as a professional mechanic for 40 years and has his own shop. They Know their stuff and we all witnessed the measurements together.
 
Hi Captain Bill, what your describing sounds exactly like a stock or aftermarket Piston for a 200 Six IE the Dished Piston's were only used stock in the 1963 1/2 to 1983 200's and the 1969 to 1983 250 Six's. So before you go tearing the engine down much more than you need to, unless you just want to see what it looks like. I would suggest you first try using a degree wheel and a Piston stop to find the true TDC and BDC Points to measure from. Here is a free Printable one you can download. I am fairly certain that this is just a miss measurement of the Crankshaft Stroke length. I also hold an A & P License and worked as a Auto, Truck, and Equipment Mechanic for many years. Please understand that I am not saying anything against your friend or the two certified Mechanic's other than maybe they are just not quite as knowledgeable with these old Six's as many of our site members are.

Also here are a couple of good books on these great six’s that can really help you to get up to speed on your six as well as show some of the Mods that can be done.

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/the-ford-falcon-six-cylinder-performance-handbook

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product-page/ford-inline-six-how-to-rebuild-and-modify

Best of luck
 
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