T-5 Conversion Swap for a 200 1966 Block with a 1967 Bell

Trans, clutch, driveshaft, and rearend.

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T-5 Conversion Swap for a 200 1966 Block with a 1967 Bell

Postby Frankenstang » Sun May 04, 2008 4:03 pm

Yes this is a very long post, but hopefully this will be helpful to anyone doing a similar swap. Part numbers and links are listed throughout.

EDIT - PREFACE: Although this thread is mainly intended to walk you through a T-5 swap behind a 1966 & later dual pattern 200ci using a 1967 & later bellhousing, I'm adding this intro to hopefully point those using a pre 66 block & bell in the right direction. There are basically two main options for adapting a 200 block to use a T-5: 1)pre-dual pattern 2)dual pattern. While there are a couple exceptions, (namely the SROD and "BB" bellhousings, covered in the tranny pages listed below), these these two categories are where most 200, T-5 conversions will fall.

Your year model of your block will determine your bellhousing and thereby flywheel and clutch options on a T-5 swap. If you have a '65 or earlier block (casting code begins with C5 or earlier ie C4='64, C3 etc) that block is what is referred to as pre-dual pattern and should look like this:

65 (C5) & earlier pre-dual pattern block
Image

The '66 (C6) and later 200 blocks are referred to as (you guessed it) dual pattern blocks, and look like this:
Image

The '65 and earlier blocks use the 'small' bell also referred to as the 2.77 bellhousing (there is more than one small bell option & casting no. but all are C5 and earlier casting dates), and require the use of an 8.5" recessed flywheel. The larger 9" flat flywheel won't fit in the smaller bells, while '66 & later blocks (being dual pattern) will accept either the small bell or the later, larger bells used in '66 as well as the '67 and later bells including the SROD. The C7 or larger bell is not the same as the 'Big Bell' first found in early 80's with a low mount starter and stamped with a 'BB' code. "BB" block are low mount starters and will not accept the earlier high mount starter bell housings.

Special note for those with a C6 bellhousing: Ford used a C6 one year only bell (if you have this bell than Cal Pony Cars makes an adapter specifically for this one year only bellhousing...makes for the easiest swap, but is not the most common bell). 1966 is also the first year of the 9" flat flywheel, then from '67 on till the late 70's ford used the C7 bell with different revision codes (last digit(s) in BH casting code). Again either the small or large bells can be used on a dual pattern block along with their respective flywheels 8.5" recessed or 9" flat.

So the short answer is with a 1965 and earlier block you'll need or have a smaller bell like the 2.77 and an 8.5" recessed flywheel. Then you'll also need the spacer/adapter that was developed by the folks here at FSP for the 'small' (2.77) bell and is available through Classic Inlines (in fact Mike/AZcoupe has complete conversion kits and lists his parts by BH casting numbers :thumbup: ). See the Small Six 215mm Clutch and Presure Plate info sticky at the top of this section for clutch & PP options with a 8.5 inch recessed flywheel.

See the History page if you want to familiarize yourself with 200ci manual transmission options (it is linked below with three other pages that are valuable information resources as well). Also see first time ever transmission if you have never installed or removed a transmission before, or just need to brush up. As with any major repair, modification, etc. always be careful and utilize all safety equipment and measures as required.


T-5 Conversion for a 200 1966 (& later) Block with a 1967 (& later) Bell

Here is my installation of a 4cyl T-5 to a 1967 Bell on a 1966 block. Let me start by saying thanks to this forum and its many posts that helped make this conversion a very straight forward project.

I purchased my rebuilt 4cyl T-5 (trans id 1352-194) out of an 1989 Mustang on ebay from txpartsman for $325 (no core charge). I have a 3.20, 7.25 rear differential. My 1966 Mustang had already been adapted to a 1967 Bell with a 3.03 three speed behind it.

I purchased the California Pony Cars Small Block 6 Bolt adapter plate from someone on ebay (my cost $125 delivered). This is the same adapter plate sold by Modern Driveline and other conversion kit sellers for C7 bellhousings (CPC part no. TRA-650-526). This is a quality adapter plate with a tight fitting concentric ring that insures proper centering of the input shaft in the '67 bell housing. In 2011, it appears California Pony Cars modified the sbf 6 bolt adapter that makes fitting it to a C7 bellhousing even easier (more below).

http://www.calponycars.com/prodDetail.php?prodId=349

I purchased a CPC tubular style 65-66 T-5 crossmember (Part no. TRA-656-522) from mustangsteve66 on ebay ($158 delivered, I tried to shave costs anywhere I could). In hindsight I would go with the angle iron style sold by Classic Inlines or Modern Driveline if I had to do this over again, or just make my own (big savings). The tubular style required more modification than I thought it should (no slotted mounting holes...more later).

http://www.calponycars.com/prodDetail.php?prodId=352

http://www.safepay.net/cgi-bin/shop/car ... ndriveline

I also plunked down the extra money for a Steeda Tri-Ax T-5 shifter ($151 new, delivered from feepay again) with positive stops. One of the weak points on the T-5 is aluminum shift forks, and one over shift or hard shift can make the transmission problematic to shift from there on out.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Steeda/946643/10002/-1/10523

After I got these main three components I started the swap. These pages, preserved by CoupeBoy from FSP were invaluable before and during the swap.

http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com/index.html
http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com/ma ... swaps.html
http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com/t- ... -info.html
http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com/cable-bell.html

Hope I am a better mechanic than photographer, as I did not take as many pictures as I would have liked, to help document the conversion. However, here is a link to what I have.
http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk27 ... 20Install/

CLUTCH
I removed the driveshaft and old 3.03 transmission. I pulled the bell housing and old three finger pressure plate. Took the flywheel off and had it resurfaced at Oreilly ($35). Since I have the large flat flywheel I opted to go back with a diaphragm style clutch setup. I used a 9 in. 10 spline count 1-1/16 input shaft diameter clutch kit made by Ram Clutches (RC88727) purchased through Mustangs Unlimited for $90 including shipping. This clutch kit is originally for a 1979-1982 Mustang with a 3.3L i6. I know of others who used a 1978 Fairmont diaphragm clutch setup, and I think as long as you have the large flat flywheel, there are several options incuding a new orig three finger style setup from Napa (was $190). The throwout bearing from the Ram kit was of no use since it was for a cable style bell and I modified the arbor to work with the smaller input shaft of the 4 cyl T-5.

I purchased the special pilot bearing for 4cyl T-5 to mate to 200ci from Napa (SKF Part no. 6202-2RSJ for $25) You do not want to use 6202-RSJ as it only has a seal on one side. Be sure to shop your part numbers, both Autozone and RockAuto sell this bearing much cheaper. If you're using a bent8 T-5 then you need the standard brass style pilot bushing from a '67 200 w/top loader manual tranny (ie 3.03 3spd).

I used a 1967 throwout bearing also from Napa (Part no. N1439) for $45, they did have a cheaper economy line bearing.

ADAPTER PLATE
After I installed the new pilot bearing, flywheel (don't forget to use oil resistant sealer on bolt threads to keep from soaking your clutch) clutch disk, and diaphragm pressure plate, I modified the CPC adapter plate to fit the 67 bell. Below is a post to an old thread that shows the solution I used. Three out of four bolts worked according to the CPC instructions, but the lower right-hand corner bolt would have landed on the edge of the bellhousing (remeber this plate is orig intended for sbf BH). The advantage of the solution below is no tapping required in the process, just two drilled through holes instead of one.

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ng+adapter

In 2011 CPC appears to have modified the SBF 6 Bolt adapter that makes it even easier to mount to a C7 bellhousing. They added some beef to the lower right-hand/passenger side corner of the 'new adapter' which allows you to drill two straight thru holes on the right-hand/passenger side of the 'new adapter' that will now both land in the thickest portion of the adapter plate and be mounted by two bolts from the inside (thanks to spikeomatic for the update & pics).

Using the older style SBF 6 bolt adapter from CPC; I also had to grind down the top of the head on the countersink bolt that mounted in the upper left had corner of the adapter (wish I had taken a pic of this). I used a fine stone on a bench grinder and kept stopping and pushing the allen head wrench into the bolt while it was hot to maintain the opening. The bolt did not countersink flush or below flush and so it would have shimmed the transmission away slightly on that upper left-hand corner. The lower left-hand corner countersink also was a little high but does not come into contact with the face of the T-5 (see pic). I also used a thin guage washer between the adapter plate and the bellhousing on the additional drilled through hole in lower right hand corner of adapter plate (sorry no pic). The aluminum surfaces on the bell and adapter plate are a bit thinner in this area and I did not want them to flex/crush toward each other. I used loctite red on all the adapter plate mounting bolts. After this modification the adapter plate fit perfectly flush to the bellhousing and provided a perfectly flush surface for the T-5 to mount against.

I had hacked off the end of the arbor that came with the clutch kit and jammed a 3/8 in. deep set socket in the end (Clampett part no. double knot 1 :lol: ). This apparently allowed me to align the clutch pretty well as the T-5 stabbed (with the help of my brother) on the first shot, slid right in :shock: I am still shocked on how easy that went. Note: I did use transmission mounting bolts that were about a 1/2 inch shorter than the ones supplied with the adapter plate. The originally supplied bolts would have bottomed out against the bellhousing. A trick to alligning the clutch disc and input shaft is to leave the tranny in gear so you can adjust minutely the output shaft during installation if they're out of allignment.

CROSSMEMBER & MOUNT
The next modification required was because the tubular style crossmember did not have slotted bolt holes on either end where it mounts to the tunnel brace. I slotted out the holes with the crossmember in a vise using a hand drill and carbide reaming/cutting bit. I purchased a three speed manual transmission mount for a 1967 from autozone cost $8 (Part no. 2253). This particular mount was a 1/4 inch shorter in height than the original 3.03 mount, which gave me a little more clearance between the tunnel reinforcement rib and the top of the T-5. Like someone on the forum said, "it is a tight fit, but a perfectly tight fit". As I mentioned earlier, if I was doing this part again I would go with the angle iron style crossmember from Classic Inlines or Modern Driveline or just make one myself (see pic) as the tubular style required too much modification and made a tighter fit than necessary given the cost.

SHIFTER
After I had the crossmember set to install, and the new mount on the transmission my brother and I lowered the transmission enough to attach the new Steeda shifter by slipping it through the hump hole from inside the car. He was able to torque the two front bolts on the shifter mounting plate from under the car while I torqued the two on the back of the plate from inside the car. We then raised up the tail of the transmission and installed the modified/remodified crossmember. I did have to trim 3/8 inch sheet metal from the front edge of the shifter hump hole opening to allow the Steeda shifter to clear completely. The Steeda shifter has a high wide collar on it for the positive stop bolts and short throw engineering. If I had used a stock shifter this trimming would not have been necessary.

The adapter plate does rotate the transmission toward the driver slightly so I used two large flat washers on the passenger side bolt of the transmission mount (between the rubber mount and the crossmember) to maintain the rotation (see pic). I also enlogated the parking brake pivot slot on the crossmember with a dremel, to keep the parking brake adjusted to about where it was on the old crossmember.

DRIVESHAFT
I had my drive shaft shortened by about an inch and balanced. I am reusing the slip yoke from the 3.03 that has the smaller 1100 series u-joints at the front and back. The driveshaft shop installed two new Neapco u-joints ($10 ea.). The '67 200ci, 3.03 yoke is 28 spline count like a T-5 yoke, but it is based on standard measure spline count rather than a metric spline like the T-5. However, the yoke fits snuggly on the output shaft with no play that I can tell. Others on this forum have also reused the 3.03 slip yoke and so far I have not found anyone who said this was, or became a problem.

Another cost savings option specifically for the '65-66 Mustangs with an 8" rear end is to use a DS from an '85 Ford Thunderbird or Mercury Cougar w/v6 and AOD. It has the proper sized u-joints and the AOD tranny yoke fits the T-5 (the tranny yoke may have a dampner ring attached which can be used as is). The big plus is this DS is already the correct length for this particular powertrain combination and wheel base.

DONE
End result after reinstalling the modified driveshaft is AWESOME! The taller first gear will be great for hills and traffic jams as reported, as well as a quick launch at the intersection. I just have to get use to it a little (screeching the tires the first couple times :shock: :twisted: something I could never do with my old 3.03 and basically stock 200. Now that she is running great, it's time to get her to stop better. Scarebird is next. Thanks again to all the members of this forum.
Last edited by Frankenstang on Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:37 am, edited 14 times in total.
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby Frankenstang » Sun May 04, 2008 8:17 pm

I used a 9 in. 10 spline count 1 /16 input shaft diameter clutch kit made by Ram Clutches (RC88727)


Edit: This should have read 9 in. 10 spline count, 1 & 1/16" input shaft.

EDIT 2: Want to give a quick plug to a fellow Texan who rebuilds T-5's at very reasonable prices.

Earl Johnson in Central Texas at hjhnracing@msn.com
Earl offers zero mile, freshly rebuilt transmissions with warranties, and at a great savings. He offers very reasonable and secure shipping for the lower 48, and does not necessarily require a core, or charge a core fee. Check with him first for availability as some models like the late 80's to early 90's 4cyl T-5 are getting harder to find down here. Earl does top quality work, and is completely professional!


My first 4cyl T-5 turned out to be a 'rattle can' rebuild, and the second gear synchro was kaput within a couple years. Just wanted to add Earl's contact info here as a source for rebuilt tranny's, especially for those on a budget like myself.
Last edited by Frankenstang on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby Patrick66 » Mon May 05, 2008 12:01 am

thanks for the writeup, we needed one. you've got some good info and links, maybe this should be a sticky.
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Postby Shrinkdude » Mon May 05, 2008 12:46 am

That is the swap I did over the winter.
I also switched my speedo cable with one I bought from Modern Driveline.
I have a 3.0 rear with the 4cyl T5 and have shift pretty quick to second I can imagine the short time you spend in 1st. :wink:
BTW you need to update you signature statement. :D
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Postby Frankenstang » Mon May 05, 2008 9:49 am

Patrick66 - Thanks, every bit of the information came from FSP past posts, a part no. here, a reference there. I'm sure all of it has been seen at one time or another. I was just hoping to pull together a comprehensive post covering the '67 bell to T-5 conversion for part numbers and links in the same place. I really owe everyone here a debt of grattitude, since I did not have to discover all of this from scratch. Glad to hear you like the write up.

I don't think I discovered a single new piece of info on the swap, other than my casting no. on my '67 bell has a '2' above it instead of a '1' as is normally there according to Big Al's old pages. I believe mine is identical to the '1' casting as it also has the wire retainer on the clutch fork.

Shrinkdude - Yeah, I don't have long in first, but I actually like the lower speed at higher rpm in first. It'll take off if I need it to, and thought I'd have to start in 2nd alot but that hasn't been the case.

I may not be far off of your setup as I'm running a slightly taller than stock tire. I need to figure exactly how it's affecting my gearing (which I don't have a great grasp on), but I would guess the taller tire is giving me something effectively more like a 3.10 on the rear. My uncle must have changed the tires 20 years ago when he owned it, and I never corrected it. I kind of made the rationalization that the taller tire helped reduce a little roll or pitching in corners.
Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby Anlushac11 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:26 pm

8)

@TMC:

Could you double check that P/N for the pilot bearing? I went to NAPA and was told that P/N does not exist. I came home and double checked to make sure I wrote it down correctly.

I have a V8 T-5 but it needs synchros replaced. The one currently in car is a 4cyl so was planning to get 4cyl piilot in case I have to use it for awhile.
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Postby Shrinkdude » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:40 pm

Anlushac11 wrote:8)

@TMC:

Could you double check that P/N for the pilot bearing? I went to NAPA and was told that P/N does not exist. I came home and double checked to make sure I wrote it down correctly.

I have a V8 T-5 but it needs synchros replaced. The one currently in car is a 4cyl so was planning to get 4cyl piilot in case I have to use it for awhile.

http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(jrprbl45n5ikxy55gl2ovt45))/Detail.aspx?R=BRG62022RSJ_0141310570

Part: BRG 62022RSJ
Alternator Bearing I.D. : 0.5906"
Alternator Bearing O.D. : 1.3780"
Alternator Bearing Width : 0.4331"
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Postby Frankenstang » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:28 pm

Thanks Shrinkdude. I think the Napa Online Catalog is flakey, cause the link below tells me the catalog session has expired. I'm guessing you have to order the pilot bearing (also listed as alternator bearing) online. You can go to www.napaonline.com and select then select the 'PartsPRO SE CATALOG' link on the left and search by part no. That should get you there.
Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby Shrinkdude » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:35 pm

TMc wrote:Thanks Shrinkdude. I think the Napa Online Catalog is flakey, cause the link below tells me the catalog session has expired. I'm guessing you have to order the pilot bearing (also listed as alternator bearing) online. You can go to www.napaonline.com and select then select the 'PartsPRO SE CATALOG' link on the left and search by part no. That should get you there.
Robert

Whoops
Yeah just put in the part# in the PartsPro section and it comes right up.
Here is a link (hopefully) for Advance Auto
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDeta ... r=62022RSJ
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Postby peeeot » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:09 pm

Thanks for putting all of this together, TMc!! The links were very helpful. I've read pretty much ever piece of information you included. I have just a couple of questions for you, as I'm planning a T5 swap and have just located what appears to be a good deal on a lot of parts, transmission included.

1. The trans I'm looking it is from a 4-cyl 1992 Mustang LX. It comes with everything needed to convert an automatic Fox body to the T5, including driveshaft, clutch bits, Steeda triax shifter, etc etc. for $400. This sounds like a really good deal to me; what do you guys think?

2. I'm a little concerned about the 3.97 first gear. I have a 3.03 now and like the long 1st, though the difficult starts aren't my favorite (so easy to make the car shudder). Do you enjoy your new transmission's gearing, or is it tiresome to have such a short 1st gear?

3. I have a '67 bell, 9" clutch, 1 1/16" 10-spline input, 3.03 trans, 3.20 rear axle. As far as I can tell, all the parts I will need are 1. adapter plate 2. transmission 3. crossmember 4. most likely, driveshaft modification. Is this a correct, complete list?

4. Am I correct in understanding you used the same driveshaft slip yoke for both the 3.03 and T5, indicating that I should be able to reuse mine as well?

5. Did you have to alter your speedometer drive in order to get accurate readings?

Thanks for any help with these questions!
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Postby Frankenstang » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:01 pm

Peeeot – NBD as the kids say, all the info is straight from FSP posts. I just compiled the specifics for this particular swap.

1. The price sounds good to me, but admittedly I’m a bit over my head when you mention, ‘everything needed to convert an automatic Fox body’. I’m not familiar at all with Fox body stangs, and a little confused by the automatic reference since you already have a 3.03 manual 3 speed if I understand you correctly.

2. I don’t mind the 3.97 1st gear with my 3.20 rear end. It’s not as long as I might like, but it launches enough to spin the tires with my stock engine setup while I can still cruise at idle smoothly (guessing at about 10 mph).

3. Your bell and clutch specs are correct, and don’t forget the special pilot bearing as the 4cyl T-5 has a smaller od input shaft .59 (vs .668 on the 8cyl), and the adapter is necessary to compensate for the longer T-5 input shafts. While the 4cyl input shaft (7.41â€￾) is still a bit longer than the 8cyl T-5 input shaft (7.18â€￾), the recess in the back of the crank on the 200 i6 can accommodate this no problem.
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/Ford-T5-Data.html

4. Yes, I used the ’67, 3.03 tranny slip yoke on my conversion and it seem to fit plenty snug (28 spline, but stnd instead of metric (T-5) does not seem to be an issue) However this is where I’m in a bit of gray area as I’m not sure you’re fox body driveshaft is the same as my ’66/’67 shaft with the small 1100 u-joints. You probably want to hear from some fox body owners on this???

5. Not yet, but as far as I know it was never altered back when the 2.77 to 3.03 swap was done on this car. I’m also running larger than stock tires, so long story short I need to get the gps out and see how far off I am. Although, I’m about to go to a 2.79, 8â€￾ axle which I think will stretch 1st for me, but I’ll lose some of that take off I really like from this conversion. :( I plan on working out the speedo when I finish changing things around, but I’d still guess 1st with the current 3.20 diff gets me to ~20mph. This testimonial helped convince me 'the water is fine...come on in' :)
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ght=torque

Hope this helps.
Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby peeeot » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:07 pm

Thanks a lot for your thorough response Robert.

To clarify, I've found a craigslist posting that contains all the parts needed to convert an automatic Fox body into a T5 fox body. My mustang is a '66 with a 3.03 and such, but I was just listing some of the many parts included with the transmission, even though several of them aren't applicable to me (for example, it comes with the clutch pedal setup--I won't be needing that, and it wouldn't be right for my Mustang anyway). I could probably sell some of the extra parts to reduce the overall cost of the conversion. It is the transmission itself that I'm really interested in.

I'm not sure what you mean about 1100 u-joints. My driveshaft may be from '67, since it mates up with the 3.03, but I really don't know.
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Postby Shrinkdude » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:40 pm

I put in an 8" in mine right before my swap and put in 3.0 gears in it and I think that is a good ratio for the 4cyl T5.
From what you said about the "shuddering", it sounds like the ratio is close to 2.80 not 3.20. I had a 3.03 in mine before the swap with a 3.20 rear gear and had no shudder, in fact I could spin the tire a bit. 8)

As far as the drive shaft, the fox is shorter than our '66 Mustangs. I have measured one before and it was almost 10 inches too short. They also have a different rear yoke.
The 1110 ujoints are the smaller ones. You might not be able to use the current one you have, count the splines.
I say that because I had a 3.03 and mine was a 25 spline on the yoke and the T5 is a 28 spline. :(
I had to find a different drive shaft.
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Postby peeeot » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:13 pm

I'm pretty sure it's a 3.20 axle. I tested my vehicle speeds at 1500 rpm in each gear, and it was approx. 13 in 1st, 23 in 2nd, and 38 in 3rd. I used one of those posted radar clocking sign things that cops put up to warn you that you're speeding and compared its reading with my speedo. I think my speedo is about 2 mph too slow, and I'm running 195/75R14 tires, so 3.20 seems to work out numerically.

You have me intrigued though. I'm going to jack up my car and count the revs of wheel vs driveshaft.

I have to rev to 1500 rpm and let the clutch out slowly to execute a start without shudder. Occasionally I can get it rolling from 1000 rpm but I have to let the clutch out verrry slowly.

Edit: I looked at my spare axle. Its tag IDs it as a 2.88, but the axle shafts were removed so I couldn't check it. I got under my mustang to check its ID but there was no tag on it. I still have yet to jeck it up and test that way.
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Postby Anlushac11 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:41 pm

Last driveshaft U joints on my Fox were 1010's and I used 4WD HD U-joints which IIRC were 41010.
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Postby Shrinkdude » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:53 pm

Don't know if you want to open the rear up, but mine had a 8 668 stamped on the side of the ring gear.
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Postby Frankenstang » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:01 am

peeeot - I'm also a little perplexed by the 'shuddering' comment. Are you referring to starting out really low like a granny gear, or vibration (like maybe a loose mount, worn u-joint, or weak or fouled clutch)?

2.88 does not sound bad to me as a highway gear, but I'm curious how that or my 2.79 will work with the 4 cyl T-5.

Shrinkdude - I posted a new photobucket link under the other thread I started about axle swaps...soliciting opinions on my 8" condition. Looks like I'm following right behind you on these swaps. Could you please post here or on the other thread how you worked out the brake junction and vent tube?
Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby Shrinkdude » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:10 am

I just got the hose for the V8 from a parts store. I am currently trying to run dual exhaust from a Hooker header, so I might have change it. I have not got the pipes that far yet so I don't know if I will have to change out for a longer hose to run it like the GTs have it.
Here is my Cardomain page, it has a couple pictures but if you want more I could take a couple more later this week.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2335755
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Postby peeeot » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:46 am

TMc--No, I wouldn't call it a granny gear, more of the opposite. It feels like I'm starting in second gear, that is to say a gear that is numerically too low to be a good 1st gear. I have to ride the clutch out in order to get the car rolling a bit before I allow the clutch to fully engage or the whole car will shake pretty violently. On new cars, if I stall a manual shift car, it just dies quietly, but this one it feels like it's putting up a fight ;) Incidentally, if I'm starting off on gravel or some other kind of loose pavement, instead of shaking one of the tires will spin. I assumed this was normal behavior for a car that isn't being given enough throttle for the amount of clutch engagement/gearing being given. If it is an indicator of some problem other than user error, I would suspect the fault to have to do with the rear end or its mountings, because I think that's where the shaking comes from. What does this sound like to you?

Edit: I just got under the car and rotated the driveshaft while my sister counted off 2 turns of the wheel. It looks like my final drive is indeed 3.20. Also, I found a problem. You know how the bellhousing is made of aluminum? Well, the lower trans-to-bellhousing bolt holes are stripped. One bolt is in there loose, the other looks to have fallen out on the road somewhere. I wonder how that's affecting things? The upper two bolts seem to be tight still.
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Postby Frankenstang » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:36 pm

peeeot wrote:One bolt is in there loose, the other looks to have fallen out on the road somewhere. I wonder how that's affecting things? The upper two bolts seem to be tight still.


I think you found your shudder. I'd be sure to check the tranny mount and u-joints for excessive play, as that much extra movement/flex of the gear box would put wear on those points.

Don't know what's the best solution, but you could try chasing the threads in the aluminum bellhousing with the same size tap for that thread and use two new bottom bolts, or drilling and tapping them out to a size larger (I want to say the tranny mounting bolts were 7/16", so going to 1/2"). A quick dirty solution might be to chase the threads and use two new bolts with an extra washer or two (lockwasher a must). Main thing is if you get them to bite don't torque past 35-40lb, if they'll hold that.

My 3.03 was a good tranny with the 3.20 rear end, only had to have it rebuilt 15 years ago cause the 1st-2nd sychronizer was toasted, and I trashed 2nd gear before I stopped driving it.
Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby peeeot » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:12 pm

You are quite right! The bolt that was still "installed" was just 1" long and the threaded hole had another inch to go, so I bought a pair of 2" bolts and matching lockwashers and installed them. They held fine, and I was sure to torque them on the light side.

I couldn't believe how different the car felt after that! I mean, the gap at the base of the trans and b/housing was probably only a couple thousandths of an inch, like maybe 1* off flush mounted. The car has never felt so smooth, quiet, and composed on the highway at 70mph, and, perhaps more importantly, the shudder is gone!

I can't believe it's taken me this long to spot this problem. I've been down there many times lately, servicing the shift linkage, inspecting u-joints, etc. with my head RIGHT NEXT to the bolts.

Oh well, I'm glad to have it fixed!

Still going to be looking into an overdrive swap though ;)
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Postby 350kmileford » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:24 am

I found the clutch you mentioned on Summit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 294865886+

They list the shaft diameter to be 1 1/8" and not 1 1/16"
Are you running a clutch with too large a diameter? o_0

Also, you said you're using the 'large' flywheel. Do you know what diameter it is?
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Postby Frankenstang » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:00 pm

350k,
I think the Summit info is incorrect. Here is the specs from "Ram Clutches" web site (scroll down to where it says 'Mustang 6 CYL.':

http://www.ramclutches.com/Applications/ford_1.htm

eng/ years/ app./ OEM set/ PG set/ size/ spline
3.3L 79 82 200 C.I. 88727 - 98727 - 9 1/16 -1 1/16-10

The input shaft diameter and disc fit correctly, in fact it is the exact same size as the old disc from my 3.03 three speed.

My flywheel is commonly called "the 9in. flat flywheel" found on '66 and later (although it is obviously larger than 9 in. to accomodate the pp and disc):

http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/67Flywheel.jpg
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby 350kmileford » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:08 pm

Next question. Is there any possibility a clutch like this would work?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 294908400+

All the measurements are appropriate, except there's no way to know if the clutch's bolt pattern would match my flywheel. Should I assume that since it's for a different application (4 cyl) that it would not fit?
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Postby Frankenstang » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:52 am

That's a serious looking clutch setup :shock: You must be planning on making some serious hp

The summit info says '87, 2.3l, as you mentioned, and specs 'seem' correct, but first thing that jumps out at me is the bolt spacing on the pp. I don't recall the pp bolts being even spaced like those look.

If you check that ram link above it lists only two pp/clutch setups for the 2.3l that are not 8.5 inch, and they're both for the SVO (one appears to be correct specs the other is different 9.25 inch diameter). I think the '215mm clutch' (aka 8.5 inch) sticky in this section talks about this. Also, at the bottom of this page:

http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/GeneralInfo.html

It only mentions compatability of the 2.3l & SVO with the 8.5 inch setup. I'm also wondering if that centerforce pp is made for a hydraulic clucth setup and how that would match up. Anyway, you may have only wanted the short answer which is, I don't know. You might want to pose that as a new question in Drivetrain or use the good ol' search button.
Good luck!
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby 350kmileford » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:54 am

I don't necessarily need a clutch that strong, I may just need one stronger than what you're using. I did search all of summit and your clutch appears to be the only one that will mate between our T5 and 3.3L. I have been searching for another one. Have you seen any other diaphragm style clutches that could work with your/my setup?
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Postby Frankenstang » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:02 am

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku


RockAuto carries RHINO PAC Part # 07004 & BRUTE POWER Part # 90207 for '79 Fairmont 200 which will also work. These look like oem equivalents and less expensive than summit.
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Postby 350kmileford » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:45 pm

Hey thanks for the info again. Those clutches on Rockauto are about $120 bucks each, not bad. And for the other clutch....I didn't read the chart properly the first time, apparently. I can only assume that 'PG SET' clutch means it is a stronger clutch?

Edit: Finally found it, with a description:
http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?Pa ... odID=65018
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Postby Abandoned67 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:22 pm

I moved my message here to a seperate topic.

Opinions would be great!

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56328

Thanks
~Frank.
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Re: T-5 Conversion Swap for a 200 1966 Block with a 1967 Bel

Postby MT63AFX » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Interesting read, saved to Favorites. As a newbie with a 'new' 66 Falcon SW, I'll be looking to replace the 2.73? (non-synchronous) trans with a T-5. My one main concern was the shifter location coming up through the tunnel, especially with a bench seat. The SW has a 3.25 rear and appears to be a dual-pattern 66 block (6A24 casting date) with a 2-bolt starter, is that possible? As for using the adapter, is the T-5 input shaft shorter than the OE 2.73's?. I was told that there was a T-shaped bushing that some people used before adapters were available, anyone heard of such a thing?

Thanks,
RodC
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Re: T-5 Conversion Swap for a 200 1966 Block with a 1967 Bel

Postby Frankenstang » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:52 pm

Best bet with a bench seat might be to consider using a different tail shaft housing on your T-5. I'm drawing a complete blank on it right now :bang:, but it may be on the tranny pages linked above or check out rickwrench's and some of the other falcon owners like powerband who used a creative shifter rod solution, but the falcon tail shaft housing swap is usually dictated by where the shifter hole is located in the older round bodies. AFAIK the 1st gen mustang shifter hole location did not change even with the bench seat...so all that may be moot :lol:
EDIT: whoops read '66 Falcon, but thinking mustang...may need to consider driveshaft swap

With your rearend ratio you're set up well for a bent8 T5.

Not familiar with a "t-shaped bushing", but adapter plate is dictated by BH casting number C5 (aka '65) and earlier, special adapter plate through either Mike@Classic Inlines (forum sponsor), Modern Driveline, or DIY
C6 ('66) one year only bell adapter
C7 & later sbf bell adapter

Late 80's to Early 90's T5 is a longer input than the 2.77, so the adapter takes care of that and pilot bushing is dependent on T-5 type 4cyl or bent8.

It's a very straight forward swap since you already have a stnd tranny, and all the info you need should be on the pages linked above, but feel free to PM me if you have more questions.
It's a great mod! Good luck :thumbup:

EDIT 2: recovered memory :roll: :D believe the tail shaft swap is from an S-10
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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Re: T-5 Conversion Swap for a 200 1966 Block with a 1967 Bel

Postby MT63AFX » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:06 pm

Thanks for the info. I'm not familiar with the term "bent8". I'm assuming one from a V6-V8? I may take you up on Pming you later when the time comes. Bookmarking this for now.

RodC
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Re: T-5 Conversion Swap for a 200 1966 Block with a 1967 Bel

Postby Frankenstang » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:05 am

Bent8 (a term lacking affection) = V8 versus a "Straight" 6 = 8) ...a bit tongue in cheek :wink: :lol:
-Robert
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66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time
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