overdrive in a falcon?

Trans, clutch, driveshaft, and rearend.

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overdrive in a falcon?

Postby 63redtudor » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:35 am

I've been kicking around the idea of putting an overdrive transmission into my '63 falcon. I want to keep the car original-looking, but upgrade some things (like the brakes), mainly to make it safer. This car is really just a cruiser, though its relaible enough that I've used it as a daily driver with no problems. I'd also really like to keep the collum shift & the 3.50 ratio rear. Thought I read somewhere that ford occasionally put a overdrive behind the 3spd toploader, but I can never seem to find any actual 'proof.' Would rather have a toploader, but have done some reasurch & found that in the '50s & '60s ford often used the Borg-Warner t86 behind the 223 & 260/289, so this would probably do just fine behind the 200 that'll eventually go into the car. Its a top-loading 3spd (non-syncro?) that was also used in jeeps, AMCs & studes. Think I may have seen one a few years ago in a wrecking yard, but it was for a stude & had an odd output spline & the transmission didn't look to be in very good shape. So, I've been looking for one out of a fairlane. I would obviously need an adapter, but I'm pretty sure I can make one as I have some aluminum stock. Is this what I'm looking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Transmis ... enameZWDVW?
So, if this is what I'm looking for, here's some questions:
- has anyone swapped in an overdrive transmission like this?
- has anyone used/had experiance with this particular transmission; good/bad?
- will it even fit into a '63 tunnel cover?
- will it even bolt up to a 200 with the 2.77 bellhousing/clutch?
- will I need a special output adapter?
- this would be an electric soloid overdrive, how will I set-up the actuating mechanism?

The 200 it'll be bolted to is a '65 (currently sitting the '65 falcon) & so I don't have the dual bellhousing block to play with. I have enough engines sitting around the property I don't think the wife would be too excited about having to add another one (also have an additional 170 & 200 blocks...) just for this swap. I'm all ready planning on having the driveshaft shortened (I assume the overdrive tranny is a bit longer). I figure I'll have to adapt or make a mount for the tranny as well. Anything else I'm missing? Thanks for any help.
Edwin
'63 red tudor 170 3spd
'65 red tudor 200 auto (3.03 someday)
'84 F150 4x4 300 4spd
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Postby CoupeBoy » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:07 pm

Not sure if any of this will help but check out this thread, I think Fred might be the man with answers to your questions
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36261&highlight=overdrive

If I were you I would PM him with specific questions or hope that he reads in here and responds
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Postby Thad » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:48 pm

Once had a company car, '63 Falcon six, 3spd with overdrive. Electric engaged for cruising, when pedal to the metal to pass automatically dis-engaged.
Sometimes when wanting to increase speed a little the additional movement of pedal would cause it to dis-engage.
That was the only problem, probably an adjustment of switch
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Postby PutPut6 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:10 pm

Have you considered a "3+1" OD toploader. They're basically 4spds with an overdrive 4th gear. They were used in the 70s.

Here's some pics on how to identify one

http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm


I've seen these go for cheap on ebay. They're not as desireable as a normal toploader because they're supposed to be weaker. But that shouldn't be any problem behind a 200. I'm not sure how you could use a column shift with it though.
Andrew

2008 Scion tC, 5spd
2007 Harley-Davidson XL1200C
1979 Trans-Am 400ci, 4spd
1978 Z-28 396ci, 4spd

1967 Mustang 200ci, 5spd -sold :(
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Postby 63redtudor » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:23 pm

PutPut6, I did think about the 3+1 toploader. However I want to keep the colum shift & am not too sure how that would work? I might be being just a little too picky, but....
Edwin
'63 red tudor 170 3spd
'65 red tudor 200 auto (3.03 someday)
'84 F150 4x4 300 4spd
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Postby PutPut6 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:10 am

I'm showing my ignorance here, I'm a mustang guy :) , but was there ever a falcon with a column shift 4spd that you could use the steering column from?
Andrew

2008 Scion tC, 5spd
2007 Harley-Davidson XL1200C
1979 Trans-Am 400ci, 4spd
1978 Z-28 396ci, 4spd

1967 Mustang 200ci, 5spd -sold :(
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Postby addo » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:08 am

Just use the column for the four speeds. Choke knob style setup for reverse.
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Postby xctasy » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:57 am

Very common in British Commonwealth countries are the Laycock de Normanville Overdrive units. They were used in some Volvo's, rear drive Morris and Wolsely 6/110's, Austin Healy's, MGB's, Vauxhalls, English Ford Zephyr and Zodiac I6's and Relient Scimitars .The last three had the Ford made 4-speed Dagenham gearbox.

Another one was the brilliant automatic Borg Warner overdrive as as used in the Studebaker Hawks and many Fords about the 1957 to 1964 era.

None are too hard to hook up. There was a huge crossfertilisation of parts after the collopse of the Studebaker-Hudson-Packard concern in 1958, and the outfall was that Borg Warner and Detriot Gear had to do some very aggressive marketing to stay alive. BW sent there gearbox division to England to tee-up business, and Ford used a huge chunk of BW Model 6, 8, 11 and 12 parts in there Fordomatic/FMX gearboxes. As a result, the three and four speed gearboxes used similar out put shaft and mounting arrangements as the automatics.

The Pommy Dagenham 3 and 4 speed was affliated in England with the Laycock overdrive. The US saw them in 62-65 Econolines and 64.5 to 66 Mustangs. In England, the gearbox was mated to the strongZephyr/Zodiac I6 engine. This often got used as a performance unit. It was 2.6 liter/155 cubic inches, and when reworked, was a leathal engine. The gearbox and Ford Zephyr six was used early Reliant Sabre and AC Ace coupes. These cars used triple carb or Mays head, 150 hp engines in smooth and light bodied sports machines, and they really needed a 1:0.78 overdrive gear. The Lycock item can still be tracked down if you've got contacts.

It's not really strong like the BW O/D is.
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Postby PutPut6 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:54 am

If you can get a 4spd column, it's then just a matter of linkage to the transmission which can probably be fabbed without much hassle.
Andrew

2008 Scion tC, 5spd
2007 Harley-Davidson XL1200C
1979 Trans-Am 400ci, 4spd
1978 Z-28 396ci, 4spd

1967 Mustang 200ci, 5spd -sold :(
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Postby pauln » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:47 pm

I don't think I can answer all your technical questions, but I did convert my '66 F100 with 240 six to a BW T-86/OD (actually, had it done at a shop). I miss the first gear syncro, but love the OD. I have mine set up to operate all manually, with a toggle switch on the dash. It might be difficult to convert and get all the vacuum/selanoid issues worked out for "automatic" operation. I prefer the manual operation, gives me a choice of six gears (actually five nicely spaced gears; first high is very close to 2nd direct. Second high(OD) makes a great around town gear, means you only have to shift once: from first to second, then OD. Also, you can shift in the gears without using clutch when in direct gears. I'ts all lots of fun, and keeps you on your toes; but not for everyone. Now that I think about it, the T-86 is the HD version (generally for big V8's); I think there is a lighter version used mainly behind sixes, but I can't think of the number right now (T-96?). Driveline will have to be shortened, yes.
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Postby Fred » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:51 am

The T86 is a "light duty" transmission. The T85 is the "heavy duty" transmission. Light duty in this case refers to handling small block V8s; heavy duty refers to handling big block V8s. Depending on how long the tail shaft is on his current transmission he may not have to have his driveshaft shortened. I did not have to do anything with the driveshaft in my '50 or '53 sedans when I installed overdrive.
1953 Customline 4 door, 215 six, overdrive
1937 Ford fordor sedan
1938 Ford coupe
1939 Ford Fordor sedan
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