Timing Gear question(s)

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Timing Gear question(s)

Postby 90F150Custom » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:45 pm

Alright, it is time to replace the timing gears on my 90 F-150. I plan on going with the Cloyes or Napa gear set that has the iron/aluminum gears. My question(s) are as follows

1. Is there any cons to using that set-up that I should know about before committing to that job?
2. The timing set comes with 3 key ways. 4 degrees advanced,4 degrees retarded or straight up. Should I install it advanced?

Use for the truck will be a work truck of hauling brush,wood(landscape timbers,2x4's etc,) and dirt or scrap metal. Towing would be a small boat or jetski,ATV trailer at most.

MPG would be nice when unloaded but not necessary, I would be happy with 14-16 mpg

The truck is a 2wd w/E4OD and a 3.08 gear

Most of the time to get back and forth to work and keep miles off my new truck. This truck will be given to my son when he is old enough to drive in 7 years.

I saw the other timing gear thread and chose not to post as that one went to sh*t quickly.

Any advice would be appreciated and thank you in advance.
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby CNC-Dude » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:23 pm

I think you should always take advantage of the benefits of advancing the cam when doing a timing gear change, especially for the lower RPM gains to be had by doing so. Also, I just hate to see someone use those problematic phenolic gear sets, so good choice by using the Cloyes or better quality sets. :thumbup:
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:47 pm

90F150Custom wrote:1. Is there any cons to using that set-up that I should know about before committing to that job?

The biggest "Con" to the aluminum gear is if you get it crooked while pressing it on or if you didn't heat the cam end can gall up the bore of the gear. Dress the sharp edge of the cam snout and lube it up before pressing it all together.

2. The timing set comes with 3 key ways. 4 degrees advanced,4 degrees retarded or straight up. Should I install it advanced?

For your app I would suggest 4 advanced if you are using a stock cam.

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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby The Plankster Prankster » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:38 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:The biggest "Con" to the aluminum gear is if you get it crooked while pressing it on or if you didn't heat the cam end can gall up the bore of the gear. Dress the sharp edge of the cam snout and lube it up before pressing it all together.

so in other words, if you follow directions and install it properly, there are no cons to it, at least in my understanding.
i have an all-iron gearset my my 300 and i love it. sometimes i hear a quiet whine but i know its the nature of iron gears, so thats harmless. i've been told the aluminum gear doesn't have near as much whine to it, so IMHO ford should have used it instead of the fiber POS they chose
as for installing your gear, put teh gear in the oven and the shaft in the freezer. IIRC they recomend 350 degrees, so i went with 450, the gear slid halfway on without force, and was easily pulled down from there with teh bolt/nut/washer system i had prepared for the purpose
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby 90F150Custom » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:23 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
90F150Custom wrote:1. Is there any cons to using that set-up that I should know about before committing to that job?

The biggest "Con" to the aluminum gear is if you get it crooked while pressing it on or if you didn't heat the cam end can gall up the bore of the gear. Dress the sharp edge of the cam snout and lube it up before pressing it all together.

2. The timing set comes with 3 key ways. 4 degrees advanced,4 degrees retarded or straight up. Should I install it advanced?

For your app I would suggest 4 advanced if you are using a stock cam.



Hold on......I am going to install this without taking anything else apart.Am I a complete fool in understanding that you are saying I have to remove the cam to install this thing properly?
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby StrangeRanger » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:28 pm

Yep.
You can probably do the crank gear in situ but the cam gear is a whole 'nother animal
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby The Plankster Prankster » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:41 pm

for teh cam gear, you want to remove the cam. this can be done with the engine in the truck, as was discussed in another thread a few months ago. on the engine side of things, you will have to disassemble the entire valve train (from lifters to rocker arms), and on the truck side, you will have to remove the radiator and grill, unbolt some engine mounts, and lift the engine until the tranny is pushing up on the body, and then you'll have enough clearance to slide the shaft out through the grill
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby 90F150Custom » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:55 pm

Service and Repair





When the crankshaft and camshaft lose their timing relationship through removal of timing gears, interference may occur between crankshaft and cam lobes. Therefore, to prevent possible damage to camshaft lobes, do not rotate crankshaft or camshaft without timing gears installed.

Camshaft Gear

1. With front cover removed, crank engine until timing gear marks are aligned as shown in Fig. 26.
2. Install gear puller and remove gear.
3. Ensure key and spacer are properly installed. Align keyway with key and install gear on camshaft.
4. Check backlash between crank and cam gear, using a dial indicator. Hold gear firmly against block while making check. Backlash should be between .002 inch and .004 inch.

Crankshaft Gear

1. Remove timing gear case cover.
2. Remove gear using a suitable puller.
3. Remove key from crankshaft.
4. Reverse procedure to install. Ensure timing marks are aligned, Fig. 26.




According to Alldata pro and the Shop manual described close to the same thing but gave me Rotunda Tool #'s to use.




Is it because of going with the aluminum gear that I have to remove the camshaft?
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby The Plankster Prankster » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:39 am

it sounds like the people who wrote the book never worked on a 300. you can't remove the gear from teh cam with a puller, you'll break it to pieces. and i'd rather not have all those pieces in my oilpan. also, because you need to heat the gear to install it, and most of us prefer to use the oven found in the kitchen, its more practical to move the camshaft closer to the oven than to move the oven next to the truck. in theory, it could be possible, but its much more practical to pull the shaft
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby woodbutcher » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:00 pm

:D Just a FYI on the cam gear install.I`ve only done ONE.But this is the way I did it.
After removing the timing cover and associated other items:
I covered ALL openings with cloths to keep crap out of the oil pan and other places of interest.Then used my Dremel(R) tool with a cutter wheel to groove the HUB of the old cam gear almost all the way through.It popped loose just fine,removed by hand.
Then took my counter top convection oven out to the truck and used a 20 foot 10ga extension cord to hook it up.
"Cooked" the cam gear for appx 45 minutes at 400*.
Used a pair of oven mitts and slid the gear right on.
No problem.Worked great until a crank bearing spun.. :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby 90F150Custom » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:12 pm

I actually have an oven in the shop I will be using to do the install. The oven is for powder coating small items like valve covers/brackets/etc.

I work at a Ford/Mazda dealership in the parts dept and I went out and spoke with a tech out there about it. He didn't remember having to pull the cam on a 4.9 but he did say it was a PITA to do the gear replacement.
So this should be interesting.

I figure with 308k on the engine and about 160k since the last water pump I will be replacing the water pump and dropping the oil pan while I am at it.



Everyone thanks for the pointers. I might even make a DIY write up for this and post it up on the forum for everyone on whatever route I choose to take.
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Re: Timing Gear question(s)

Postby broncr » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:20 pm

It's been a while, but IIRC, my Cloyes adjustable came with two key-ways. One straight, one offset. On the crank gear, straight key for stock, offset one way for 4* advance, offset reversed for 4* retard. As above - warmed cam gear slid on (new cam) with ease. I may have used loc-tite, for giggles.
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