Timing gears

The Big Block of inline Ford sixes

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Timing gears

Postby 300Straightsix » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:33 pm

Was reading some old posts on 300's on a different forum, and I came across a thread about swapping timing gears from the phenolic gears to the metal ones. It mentioned that there was a plug that goes into the block (under the timing cover), that has to come out when you swap, or the gears wont get enough oil. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I figured I should ask none the less. I didn't save the link and I have been unable to find it since. The 300 I rebuilt was a '93 FI engine, and has had the phenolic gears swapped to a cloyes set .

It hasn't ever been run and probably won't for awhile, but if there is some truth to this I'd like to know before I do fire it up.

And so I don't have to create a seperate thread:
I still need a distributor for this engine, and I know there has been tons and tons of threads on this.....What is the best era to get one from, or the best model of dist that ford used? Originally I wanted to get a DUI hei one, but the race car is a constant drain on my funds, so I will probably use a stock one I guess.

I was supposed to have this engine in the truck and running this summer, but then I decided to put a transbrake/2 step in the car ($).....then the 9" rear end blew up (even more $$) and now I need to get this I6 off my engine stand and get the chebby on it this winter lol.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby StrangeRanger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:45 pm

The plug has an orifice drilled through it and lubricates the gears. It is found on all 300s. Whether or not the phenolic geared engines have a smaller orifice than the metal geared ones, I do not know.

If the shop that boiled and machined your block installed the plug, they possibly could have used a generic pipe plug rather than one which was drilled through. Best to check.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby 300Straightsix » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:25 am

Will do. I took alot of pictures building it up, so hopefully I got one where i can see it. Would save lots of energy.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby Frankford6 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:50 am

Simplest, easiest to install dizzy is the DS II unit from 78-83. Buy the dizzy, module, coil and wiring harness and it's plug and play. It's also a high energy ignition and has no points needing replaced. Be sure to buy a Motorcraft module; many of the aftermarket units don't seem to hold up.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby '68falconohio » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:27 am

Did you convert the EFI engine to carby?

Make the chebby sleep outside.... :roll:
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Re: Timing gears

Postby 300Straightsix » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:10 am

Yes I did convert the efi engine to carb. The truck is one of the first FI 300's, and I like the simplicity of the carb (and I'm comfortable with it) so it wasn't much of a step backwards.

And as much as I like my ford truck, the chebby car fufills what the 300 lacks, which is the tire melting fun. Although if I had a lot of disposable money around, I would consider a sbf swap ....Revenge for all the mustangs with sbc's!
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Re: Timing gears

Postby F-250 Restorer » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:10 pm

"The plug has an orifice drilled through it and lubricates the gears. It is found on all 300s."

I don't believe that is quite accurate. The early--pre efi--300's that I have seen do not have a hole in that plug. I assume you are referring to the lifter galley oil passage? If you drill a hole in that plug, your oil psi will drop radically. Oil is supplied to the t. gears from run off from the head, and also, if you're looking straight at the block in front, right about at 3 oclock, where the block sticks out the most for the t.cover, you'll find an allen plug on the outside of the cover, and an oil supply hole on the inside. That hole/passage is the oil supply for the t.gears of the early models.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby StrangeRanger » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:31 pm

And that is the plug to which i am referring. There is no other which lubricates the gears on any 300.

BTW the large type face that you insist on using is extremely annoying
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Re: Timing gears

Postby F-250 Restorer » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:47 pm

"The plug has an orifice drilled through it" I thought you were speaking of the lifter galley plug behind the cam gear.

For the original poster's clarification, the hole I am speaking of is not drilled in any plug, but into the block itself. To clean that oil supply line, one has to remove the small allen plug, which is OUTSIDE the t.cover.

I was not trying to annoy anyone with the size of previous font. I'm sorry you found it that way.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby chico71 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:52 pm

i remember helping my brother rebuild his army jeep engine thirty years ago. it was my first complete motor job. i think it was a chrysler 4 banger, although it might have been a buick.

anyway, it had timing gears like the 300. there was a little brass fitting that screwed into the block right by the crankshaft gear. we forgot to put it in and had little to no oil pressure. when we figured it out and put it back in, we got about 60 psi out of it! boy, this thread takes me back...
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Re: Timing gears

Postby FordJim » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:23 pm

IIRC the front camshaft bearing journal has a groove in it that goes about 1/4 of the way around the journal. As the cam turns, this groove momentarily connects the main oil passage for the cam bearing with the "spurt hole" that oils the timing gears. This gives a shot of oil to the timing gears without being a constant bleed on the oil pressure to the front cam bearing. This is the only source of oil to the timing gears (besides splashing oil up from the pan when you nail the brakes :-).
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Re: Timing gears

Postby F-250 Restorer » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:40 pm

Yes, you are correct.

I thought it was the moderators who policed the forum.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby StrangeRanger » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:21 pm

I think we're simply calling the same thing by different names.
The orifice plug to which I am referred is the "spurt hole" that FordJm talks about. The original poster specified a plug under the timing cover. I would have thought that that was sufficient to identify which one we were discussing
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Re: Timing gears

Postby Lazy JW » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:58 pm

F-250 Restorer wrote:........

I thought it was the moderators who policed the forum.

StrangeRanger is a highly respected, long standing member of this forum; he has earned the status of VIP member and sometimes mentions things which we moderators don't have time to notice.
Thank you for heeding his advice.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby F-250 Restorer » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:53 pm

Lazy JW wrote:
F-250 Restorer wrote:........

I thought it was the moderators who policed the forum.

StrangeRanger is a highly respected, long standing member of this forum; he has earned the status of VIP member and sometimes mentions things which we moderators don't have time to notice.
Thank you for heeding his advice.
Joe


Are you serious? You felt a need to state that on the forum? Oh my gosh, how terrible it was that I wanted to write in a different size font. Heaven forbid that I or anyone else might want to be so rude as to write in a different color. Is there a rule regarding using one size font? Gee, I thought the font sizes were there for each member to choose from(ARE THEY NOT?)

Are you really so small that you would feel a need to Publicly reprimand me for typing with a different size font?

Why don't you leave this notice running so that other forum members, who make this forum work, can chime in regarding my terrible crime.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby Lazy JW » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:25 pm

Ok.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby Emerald 74 4X4 » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:31 am

Ok, this is rediculous!

For one, there is nothing that says bigger font is against the forum rules. I find it equally annoying as people who type in all CAPS, but maybe there is a reason he types it big? I have seen him post on another forum in the exact way. Sometimes you must put up with things like this, ESPECIALLY if you are a long-standing forum member.

For second, SR is a VERY knowledgable person who contributes, has contributed, and continues to contribute, a wealth in information to this forum that many many people rely on and have interest in. But, I will agree, SR does come off rude and speaks his mind. There is nothing wrong with that, but I have seen more than a dozen instances where his words don't rub right.

First item in the forum rules:
Respect Your Fellow Members - Do not belittle, disparage, ridicule, or make fun of a fellow member. This includes name-calling, questioning people’s integrity or knowledge in a disparaging way, or openly trashing someone’s reputation online. Keep your post positive if at all possible, as negative comments do nothing but fuel the fire for bad relationships. Respect the opinions of others and avoid downgrading their opinions simply because you don't agree with them.

I know it is POSSIBLE to keep it positive, there is a bad relationship starting to occur here, and suggestions on font size CAN be conveyed in a much more respectful manner.

This isn't my place to put this here, but its getting in the way of the information that the title of this post is about. Back to timing gears please!
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Re: Timing gears

Postby 300Straightsix » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:20 am

Lol and I thought my original question was the driving force keeping this thread at the top.....

My original understanding of how the timing gears got oil was flawed, and I now have the correct idea. So this thread is resolved (thanks for helping guys).

Although I don't understand the need for the large font, I don't really care either. I think the Mod's job is to police outright and clear violations of the rules, and what StrangeRanger said could of been done over PM. With that being said, I would agree certain people should be considered VIP, for their contribution to the forum and/or their knowlegde (StrangeRanger is an engineer I believe). But, no one is above the rules (kinda like no one is above the law) and no one should be allowed to abuse whatever priveledges the VIP status might get them.

Anyways,
1990 f-150
300 Six - 0.030 over bore, 9.3 : 1 CR, Comp cams 260 cam, Offy Dp, 525 CFM BG demon, Ford DUI street/strip Distributor, long tube headers
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Re: Timing gears

Postby F-250 Restorer » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:53 pm

[size=150]To all concerned: I am a free-lance writer who has used this forum to confirm valuable info for my articles. And I have mentioned it as a source in said articles. As I get up in years, I find my eyesight is not what it used to be, and it is a relief to type with this size font.

However, I have never felt this forum to be a friendly place. There is a 'good old boys' clique that dominates Fordsix forum. As is witnessed by the responses to my posting. I said nothing derogatory about SR, but yet a moderator felt the need to close ranks and PUBLICLY defend him, clearly marking the line between Insider, and Outsider.

A member mentioned that this forum is dying. With this incident in mind, it is quite clear to understand why. The web is full of great sources for information. I no longer wish to subject myself to the pettiness or hostility of this 'good old boys club.'

FTF: I thank you for your knowledge and your willingness to share.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby '68falconohio » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:28 pm

F-250 Restorer wrote:To all concerned: I am a free-lance writer who has used this forum to confirm valuable info for my articles. And I have mentioned it as a source in said articles. As I get up in years, I find my eyesight is not what it used to be, and it is a relief to type with this size font....


When using the prosilver viewing format for this forum you will find in the top right corner of the screen a letter 'A' above the 'logout' hyperlink. Clicking on this 'A' not only makes replies that you've made, but all font larger so that it's easier to view. Don't know what other viewing formats the magnification option is available in. I'm definitely not the only one who knew about this function and I'd bet that asking for assistance would've produced the same information I've given.
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Postby addo » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:16 am

Interesting the overall size option isn't applied to all skins offered on the Forum.

As a "lean forward and squint" type of user I can see now that many of the odd font instances here and elsewhere, may be in fact rooted by visibility issues - rather than a poster's outright quirkiness.

As two members have pointed out, elements of the thread exist further than a wink and a nod from the Forum rules. For that reason at least, I'm going to lock it until evening of October 11th - civil discourse within, may continue after that point...

Regards, Adam.
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Re: Timing gears

Postby 66 E100 Pickup » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:17 pm

FordJim wrote:IIRC the front camshaft bearing journal has a groove in it that goes about 1/4 of the way around the journal. As the cam turns, this groove momentarily connects the main oil passage for the cam bearing with the "spurt hole" that oils the timing gears. This gives a shot of oil to the timing gears without being a constant bleed on the oil pressure to the front cam bearing. This is the only source of oil to the timing gears (besides splashing oil up from the pan when you nail the brakes :-).


I don't think this is 100% accurate...there is a direct connection from the main oil passage to both the front cam journal and the timing gear oil hole. The oil flow does not pass first through the cam journal and then to the timing gear oil hole.

The "spurting" happens due to a pressure surge backwards from the front cam journal groove as it rotates. It's what we would call "water hammer" if we were talking house plumbing.

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Re: Timing gears

Postby sam2007 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:51 am

just letting everyone know ,on the efi 1992 and later there is a oiling hole for the cam gear and its at about two o clock and does not have a plug nor need a plug confirmed when my motor was rebuilt
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Postby sam2007 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:51 am

ditto
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Re:

Postby THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:27 am

sam2007 wrote:ditto

?????????????
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Re: Re:

Postby Frankford6 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:29 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
sam2007 wrote:ditto

?????????????

Given his avatar, maybe he meant "d***hole" :D
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Re: Timing gears

Postby sam2007 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:57 pm

Myself and the rebuild shop looked at this cam gear oiling hole you all speak of ,, on the late mod. efi this hole is at 2 o clock beside the cam gear .there is no plug its just a small oiling hole NO PLUG AT ALL. i speak the truth!!
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