WhichBlock should i use for a performance build 1966 or 1978

[JMB]

My 66 mustang has the original 200 inline 6 in it and im planning to do a high performance build. I also have a 1978 200 inline 6 block, aside from the cylinder head, which block (original 66 or 78) would be better for me to use & "why"?

[Bayrunner]

Other than the heads. They are the same internally. But, the Later block might have less wear and tear on it.

[JMB]

Bayrunner,

Thanks for the reply. The 78 block looks fresher ,like its been redone before. It also looks like it has been newly painted and the Cylinder Head that is on it is a 1973.

The 1966 engine that is on the car is still in original condition and has never been open or redone before. Both engines are in running condition.

I am also planning to put a T5 Transmission from Modern Drivelines but this should not be an issue because they have adapters for both types of bellhousings. I don't have a bellhousing on the 78 but i think the 66 bell will bolt on the 78 block(not shure , i could be wrong).

My question is:
Knowing this , which block should i use for the high performance build?

Thanks in advance.

[rbohm]

either block will do just fine for a high performance build.

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

Use the block that requires the least amount of boring to achieve a true cylinder wall. Also check for crack near the head bolt holes. The year of these blocks will not matter. When it comes to building a performance block, with overboring, less is better. FoMoCo's thin wall casting process is good for less weight, but it doesn't leave alot of material to rebuild with. When the walls get too thin, cylinder wall flex and distortion becomes a problem with piston and ring seal.

The only way to determine which block is best is to disassemble and inspect to determine how much boring will be required to true the cylinders.

Adios, David

[ArtemisI6]

Isn't the 1978 block stronger in a metallurgical sense? i.e. it'll last longer for more miles without wearing out?

[dieselmaster]

its not the age of the metal u want to consider its how much each block was used, if the older block had only been run a short time i'd use that one and vice versa. In the big picture it still isn't a big loss either way, engines i'm working on are 50 60 years old, and there is no replacing the block.

[JMB]

Thanks for the reply to all.

Can these blocks be sleeved?

If they could, will the sleeve make it stronger?

Is it worth the cost to have it sleeved?

Are these blocks available NEW? Thanks again.

[Mustang_Geezer]

Thanks for the reply to all.

Can these blocks be sleeved?

If they could, will the sleeve make it stronger?

Is it worth the cost to have it sleeved?

Are these blocks available NEW? Thanks again.

The 66 block will have forged rods the 78 block will not.

Yes they can be sleeved as mine had to be on a couple of bores awhile back. Yes it is worth the cost and no they are not available new anymore but I have seen a couple of NOS blocks show up in the original boxes on ebay in the past year.

Later,

Doug

[JMB]

Mustang_Geezer,

Thanks for the reply.

Are the bolt paterns where the bellhousing meets the block the same on the 66 as on the 78 block? Thanks.

[Mustang_Geezer]

Mustang_Geezer,

Thanks for the reply.

Are the bolt paterns where the bellhousing meets the block the same on the 66 as on the 78 block? Thanks.

Yes they are the same.

The only differance in the blocks (to my casual inspection) is the 66 block has the provisions for the draft tube and the 78 block doesnt.

Later,

Doug

[JMB]

Mustang_Geezer,

Yes they are the same.

The only differance in the blocks (to my casual inspection) is the 66 block has the provisions for the draft tube and the 78 block doesnt

My question is :

I am planning to put a T5 trans from Modern Driveline.

The reason I asked if the bolt paterns on the blocks are the same is because (Modern Driveline) told me that the 66 200 inline 6 is a stand alone year and that they have a different bellhousing than any other years.

Is this true?

Will the bellhousing from a 67 - 78 bolt up to my 66 block? Thanks again.

[early ford fan]

the 66 200 may? have a special bellhousing but the blocks are the same from 65 to 80.

[rbohm]

Mustang_Geezer,

Yes they are the same.

The only differance in the blocks (to my casual inspection) is the 66 block has the provisions for the draft tube and the 78 block doesnt

My question is :

I am planning to put a T5 trans from Modern Driveline.

The reason I asked if the bolt paterns on the blocks are the same is because (Modern Driveline) told me that the 66 200 inline 6 is a stand alone year and that they have a different bellhousing than any other years.

Is this true?

Will the bellhousing from a 67 - 78 bolt up to my 66 block? Thanks again.

the 66 and earlier blocks use a smaller bell housing bolt pattern in so far as the upper two bolts are set lower. look at the back of your 78 block and you will see two bolt patterns. the 66 block does not have the upper two bolts. thats the bad news, now the good news. you can drill and tap the upper holes using the later block plate as a template, and that would give you the dual bolt pattern block.

in the end however it is a moot point for a T5 swap as there are adapter plates available for both the 2.77 to T5 swap and the 3.03 to T5 swap. and if you need a bell housing there are many of us that can sell you one.

[Mustang_Geezer]

Mustang_Geezer,

Yes they are the same.

The only differance in the blocks (to my casual inspection) is the 66 block has the provisions for the draft tube and the 78 block doesnt

My question is :

I am planning to put a T5 trans from Modern Driveline.

The reason I asked if the bolt paterns on the blocks are the same is because (Modern Driveline) told me that the 66 200 inline 6 is a stand alone year and that they have a different bellhousing than any other years.

Is this true?

Will the bellhousing from a 67 - 78 bolt up to my 66 block? Thanks again.

Not sure on the manual trans but the auto trans requires no drilling or any modification to fit the 66 C-4 automatic transmission to the 1978 block. It bolts on to the back of it and you drive away.

Later,

Doug

[Frankenstang]

8) the 66 and earlier blocks use a smaller bell housing bolt pattern in so far as the upper two bolts are set lower. look at the back of your 78 block and you will see two bolt patterns. the 66 block does not have the upper two bolts.

Don't you mean the '65 and earlier are non-dual pattern...both my '66 blocks are dual pattern.

There is a '66 only bell if yours is/was a stock original 2.77 three speed it would have this bell with the peanut tranny:
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/66Bell.jpg

more info here
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/history.html

And actually there is an adapter plate mass produced for that one year only bell (C6OA-6394-C):
http://www.calponycars.com/prodDetail.php?prodId=371

If you have the C6 bell this adapter requires no mods...the C7 and later/larger bell (prior to the low mount starter) uses the sbf adapter, and requires a minor couple mods. Also, '66 was the start of the 9" flat wheel (more clutch options).
EDIT:

Will the bellhousing from a 67 - 78 bolt up to my 66 block? Thanks again.

yep

[rbohm]

8) the 66 and earlier blocks use a smaller bell housing bolt pattern in so far as the upper two bolts are set lower. look at the back of your 78 block and you will see two bolt patterns. the 66 block does not have the upper two bolts.

Don't you mean the '65 and earlier are non-dual pattern...both my '66 blocks are dual pattern.

i keep thinking it was 67 when the second bolt pattern was added.

[JMB]

Thanks again guys for the info.

Frankenstang,

Thanks for clarifying and for the detailed info of the blocks and the different bellhousing's.

I heard from Bruce at Modern Driveline that he is making a bellhousing made out of steel for the 66 and newer 200 inline 6 blocks to bolt up to the T5 without the need of an adapter and will have the ability to use a Clutch Cable or a Hydrolic Clutch System. Hope he will have it soon.

Is the material that was used to make the blocks better on the 78 over the 66 (since it is 12 years newer)?

[Frankenstang]

I heard from Bruce at Modern Driveline that he is making a bellhousing made out of steel for the 66 and newer 200 inline 6 blocks to bolt up to the T5 without the need of an adapter and will have the ability to use a Clutch Cable or a Hydrolic Clutch System. Hope he will have it soon.

Hey JMB, that's a real interesting bit of info, thanks for passing it on. I'm guessing Bruce's 'steel' bh would have to be one of those lakewood type shatter proof bh's the racers use ...will be curious to see that come out. I keep hoping Mike/AZCoupe or someone will decide to recast the stock aluminum 'holy grail' '81 bh that's the right depth (no adapter) and cable ready for the 200...unfortunately it's extremely hard to come by second hand.

The 66 block will have forged rods the 78 block will not.

I'm not much help on diff's between the '66 vs '78, but given what Geezer said...personally I'm glad I ended up with another '66 instead of the '78 short block I was looking at. Based on what he, rbohm, and CZLN6 said it sounds like you should be good either way...forged rods does sound like a nice plus though.
Good luck!

[rocklord]

I have a 66 engine sitting in the back of my Ranger (just bought it) and it has the dual bolt pattern block.

The 200 in my 65 Mustang has the single pattern block.

[JMB]

Frankenstang,

I think you are right. Bruce told me that it will be a shatter proof bh's and that it will be 12lbs heavier than the aluminum bell.

What years and in what cars did that (stock aluminum 'holy grail' bellhousing with the Clutch Cable provision) come in?

Did they also come in the cars with 250 motors or just the 200's. Thanks.

[Frankenstang]

Frankenstang,

I think you are right. Bruce told me that it will be a shatter proof bh's and that it will be 12lbs heavier than the aluminum bell.

What years and in what cars did that (stock aluminum 'holy grail' bellhousing with the Clutch Cable provision) come in?

Did they also come in the cars with 250 motors or just the 200's. Thanks.

Hey JMB, well as far as I can gather from some old posts here the bellhousing could most likely be found on an '81 Mustang or Capri with a four speed, non-overdrive manual transmission (T-4...EDIT: Not an SROD), and the casting number is E1ZR-6394-AA.
Here are the posts I have bookmarked discussing the 'holy grail'.
viewtopic.php?p=351136
viewtopic.php?t=40413
https://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2034

This is a picture of the HTF bh:
http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/T-5Bell1.jpg

And you can also find some discussion of them on these two pages with side by side pics of the SROD & T-4/T-5 bell:
Pics near the bottom above the TO bearings&forks: http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/history.html
First two pics on this page: http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/cable.html

EDIT 2: Obviously the best things about the 'holy grail' bh or the one Bruce is talking about producing is that it would do away with the need for an adapter/spacer plate (correct length bh w/t-5 pattern) and have a cable clutch provision. Then it's just a matter of how much would someone be willing to pay for it

The 250 can use a sbf bellhousing AFAIK, so if you plan to use a 250 at some point, a cable bell is a relatively easy mod...but I don't believe there is any crossover on 200 & 250 bh's.
Hope that helps. There is also a brand new post in the tranny section where a member modified an SROD cable bell to take a T-5...I don't know what's more impressive, his work or the equipment

[Eric Rose]

Be aware that the '78 motor is low compression. You'll probably want to zero-deck the block and/or the head to get a respectable compression ratio. If you have both motors side by side, measure the piston crown height and piston dish.

[JMB]

Frankenstang,

Thanks again for the info.

[quotEDIT 2: Obviously the best things about the 'holy grail' bh or the one Bruce is talking about producing is that it would do away with the need for an adapter/spacer plate (correct length bh w/t-5 pattern) and have a cable clutch provision. Then it's just a matter of how much would someone be willing to pay for it e][/quote]

Bruce said his bell will be around $400-450 and is expecting it to be ready January or Feb.